The World Famous City Ground - Home of the PROPER WORLD‘S OLDEST LEAGUE CLUB

[Lady Penelope]

I don't want to go to Toton, it is possibly a canny move financially, but it's not right. If we have to move, which I believe we do, then as close as possible to the WFCG and as close as possible to the city centre and the transport links. The biggest objections to any new development will be about "how do people get there / get away". That's why maximising existing public transport links, with lots of people walking the lady Km, is the way forward. The statement in The Athletic that Eastcroft is designated as "industrial" land is not insurmountable. The City own it and could predesignate it to accommodate a stadium and associated money earners. The problem is that the max financial value of the site is for housing, and other things of value like social capital and a terrific football club do not enter the heads (or are not allowed to more like) of the bean counters who are running the show.

Re public transport, I'll give you: Hillsborough trams; the plans for Villa Park and Witton and Aston stations; rail connections for Everton; Ibrox. I'll ignore the London grounds because the transport system there is completely different to anywhere else in the UK, and it is managed and funded differently. Further afield, I'll give you Lille, Lyon, Barcelona. Any new (or significantly redeveloped and expanded) stadium will increasingly rely on public transport, and it will not get through planning without that.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

Again, the club belongs to Nottingham and its people, I dont need a history lesson mate, postcode introductions in the 50s mean nothing to any Forest fan.

Putting a club on the outer most point of its core fanbase and as close to another city centre as your own is not acceptable, its basically franchising and the club will die.

If a move is to happen then they will simply have to find a location in the City, otherwise stay.

I dont want to hear any more silly talk about Toton, do I make myself clear?

In fairness I haven’t stuck up for toton really. Cartledge said they were looking at a plethora of sites. So I don’t know why people are focusing so much on Toton. It’s like people want to get mad at the moment. I do get it though we want to as fans send out messages of our red lines and that’s important but cartledge hasn’t committed to anything or said anything of any great detail.

 

[chaospunx]

Wes I think we need 40k + if we want to have lower ticket prices. Economics of scale. I live in Chester I can only make like 5-10 per season even if I could get tickets. The current state of the capacity has basically killed any fan like me dreams of going to a few games per season. Especially at reasonable prices. I think we need between 40k-50k so we can get low ticket prices. If we follow the German model of clubs we can make good money. Also if tickets were like 15 quid and we were in the champ and top half we’d easily get 40k I reckon.

You ain't ever getting lower ticket prices than they are now whatever happens things never go backwards

 

[Captain Sinister]

Not trying to be argumentative but Forest moved from their original home which was a lot closer to where I lived in Nottingham originally. My mum went to the all girls school next to the Forest recreation ground. Also Forest play out of the city currently which is why County gives us all the stick. I am being pedantic with that though cause I know its just out of the boundary but its basically there.

So I dont agree with that sentiment entirely, the City Ground does mean a lot to me so there are serious red lines in what I deem acceptable. It cant be a flatpack bowl like the king power or pride park. It needs to be terraced as far as I am concerned. It cant be longer than 15 mins via public transport into town. Ideally be on the banks of the trent again. I was looking myself yesterday at potentional sites and I havent lived in Nottingham for 20 years so I havent a clue if this is viable but if you could link it with a Tram. It could be nice. However anyone feel free to shoot me down on that as I know feck all about Weir sports ground.

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Also I voted in the poll to stay at the WFCG with expanded BC and PT stand. I want to stay more than anything but I am not closed off to moving if my preference isnt viable. At the end of the day we need more seats.

Viable?
Adding to the iconic City Ground is far more viable than splurging £700m on a souless identikit stadium somewhere out in the Wild West.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

Viable?
Adding to the iconic City Ground is far more viable than splurging £700m on a souless identikit stadium somewhere out in the Wild West.

I agree if thats the proposal Captain. No one wants a souless bowl that is extremely remote including myself.

 

[GreeksBearingGifts]

I can envisage two scenarios:
1. The Toton story is simply a means to add pressure to the City Council so that it lowers its asking price.
2. The club are really contemplating a move to a new stadium, because it's simpler and quicker.

I know which of the two I consider the most likely, but I've been proven wrong so many times that I don't bother with predictions anymore. The one thing I know is that, after a season on the financial edge, I find it somewhat hard to believe that EM plans to add such a massive financial burden to the club.

 

[Strummer]

On what basis have you deemed it to be "incorrect"?

I'm not going to repeat what's been said to me privately as it wouldn't be fair on the individual himself (and it isn't just him that's turned away, there are a few others) . . . he's more than capable of putting his own point across; I hope he'll do so at some point and clear things up for those that miss seeing his posts. One of us will be proved to be *incorrect*, no doubt.

As for having subtle - or otherwise - digs at other members, you'd do well to remember that when you moderate this forum, call it out when you see it consistently rather than just with those you fancy butting up against . There's a reason - a reason that rings with truth - that this place has gone down hill and is full of gobshites, bullies, hypocrites, piss takers . . . . and that's on you.

I don't care for, take any notice of or heed your chiding or commandeering of this forum as your own personal fiefdom of opinions so do as you see fit on reading this. No skin off my nose, Strum.

OK?

Well, perhaps maybe you should? When you sign up for this forum, you agree to abide by its rules. And yes, there are some.

As I’ve posted many times before, we tend to operate a light-touch regime of moderation, depending on the user-base to behave themselves, which to their credit, they mostly do.

And I can absolutely assure you, we are as even-handed as possible as Moderators. With everyone.

We will only step in when something has been reported to us, or, when we spot something that we - as a Moderating team - collectively agree steps over a line. We don’t (and we never have) make arbitrary decisions individually.

Your personal opinions on how the forum „has gone down hill and is full of gobshites, hypocrite, piss takers“ is your opinion. I don’t agree with it, but it’s your opinion, so as a neutral moderator, I respect it. The forum has always prided itself on its irreverent humour and off-beat discussion, and we want to retain that, because it’s an essential part of what makes us a little bit different.

And please, stop with the persecution complex. Neither I, nor any other moderator, is picking on you specifically, nor are we individually picking out anyone else. We take moderating decisions as a team, by collective discussion, based on a majority opinion, the way we always have, and as such, it would not be possible for me to commandeer the entire forum, as my moderating colleagues would no doubt, pull me up (and, rightly so).

As we have posted before, the forum has seen a substantial rise in traffic since Forest regained Premier League status, and that has meant an influx of new posters, and the return of some old ones. Not everybody has found this situation satisfactory, as we have to balance opinion, but again, this is something we have always done (or tried to do, anyway).

There are other Forest-related forums, of course, but as many folk tell us, they are not as open as this one. That is something we want to keep.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

That's the thing though, we could if we actually wanted to. The lease is there if we want it.

And as the relative value of money seems to have halved every ten years on average over the past 100 years or so, a million pound per year will equate to the equivalent of 3p per year in today's money by the end of the 250 year lease. Of course that wouldn't float Marinakis's boat as he wouldn't be around to benefit from it.

 

[Battered Sausage]

On what basis have you deemed it to be "incorrect"?

I'm not going to repeat what's been said to me privately as it wouldn't be fair on the individual himself (and it isn't just him that's turned away, there are a few others) . . . he's more than capable of putting his own point across; I hope he'll do so at some point and clear things up for those that miss seeing his posts. One of us will be proved to be *incorrect*, no doubt.

As for having subtle - or otherwise - digs at other members, you'd do well to remember that when you moderate this forum, call it out when you see it consistently rather than just with those you fancy butting up against . There's a reason - a reason that rings with truth - that this place has gone down hill and is full of gobshites, bullies, hypocrites, piss takers . . . . and that's on you.

I don't care for, take any notice of or heed your chiding or commandeering of this forum as your own personal fiefdom of opinions so do as you see fit on reading this. No skin off my nose, Strum.

OK?

Couldn't agree more, but it's falling on deaf ears and a complete waste of time to argue otherwise.

 

[Rigler]

Forest belongs to Nottingham and its people, not some shit hole village that borders derbyshire because land was cheap. It simply wouldnt be Nottingham Forest any longer, the current club wouldnt exist. May as well be Forest Dons.

FTITA Forest Till its Taken Away.

Shit hole village? Clearly you're not familiar with Toton.....

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

So, I think I've found a way of paying the £1m per annum lease for the ground. Last year according to GiveMeSport.com we spent over £13m on agents. Find a way of cutting back on the agents fees and use it to pay the City Ground lease.

 

[Cloughie1975]

So, I think I've found a way of paying the £1m per annum lease for the ground. Last year according to GiveMeSport.com we spent over £13m on agents. Find a way of cutting back on the agents fees and use it to pay the City Ground lease.

Cancerous agents have long been a blight on the game.

 

[magicwoand]

You can't understand why some fans might feel that strongly about ripping a tree out of the ground that it's grown in for 125 years and plonking it elsewhere?
You can't understand why some fans might feel that strongly about disassociating with all the memories they've made inside those four stands since they first walked through the turnstiles?
You can't understand why some fans might not want to trade arguably one of the best locations for a football stadium in world football to move to the middle of f***ing Toton?
You can't understand why some fans might not want to whore out the history and legacy of the football club, on the fake promise that Forest can be competing for trophies?
You can't understand why some fans might find it really grubby that the Chairman and Face of this little escapade also happens to be the CEO of the firm that has the contract to develop the City Ground as well as having the nerve to call himself a Forest fan?
You can't understand why some fans might feel pissed off that season tickets were capped and thus the need for memberships was introduced, in preparation for the expansion of the CURRENT stadium, which have been the plans for five years?

The club has gone from a forgotten Championship club to the Premierleague in the space of a year. It's been in cup quarter finals and semi-finals. In the past three seasons, we've beaten Liverpool, Manchester United, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs in competitive matches. We've had Keylor Navas as a goal keeper. We've got African Champions and World Cup Winners in our squad.

How much progress does Marinakis want? Maybe if he wasn't spunking money on the likes of Origi, Sangare, Shelvey and Dennis then we would have more money available to recruit differently. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever we need to sell off our identity and move the stadium to compete.

I don't know if my knickers are in a twist mate, but since the club more and more wants to treat me and thousands of other people as dispensable customers, rather than loyal supporters, I'm just behaving like one. Moving is a non-negotiable for me. It's up there with changing the kit colour or the badge.

I don't believe I'm any more of a supporter than any one else, but there are certain cornerstones that make a club special and the WFCG is one of them.

Of those 4 stands only 1 witnessed a league title and European Cups, only 2 stands witnessed league cups. The ground is not the same as it was in the golden years, the stands are not the same, the seats are not the same the pitch isn’t the same. The grounds stagnated for nearly 30 years like we did for over 20. We need a new stadium whichever way you look at it. My preference would be to knock it down and rebuild it on site. If that’s not possible we will have to relocate Hopefully near the Trent, if that’s not possible close to the city. I doubt we will ever be at Toton.

 

[Lady Penelope]

Public transport considerations: I don't want us to go to Toton (even though it's handy for me) but to clarify .....

The tram from Toton is ridiculously slow, due to the old technology that w have but also because there are not enough passing points (things were cut out to get the cost low enough for the Government OK to phase 2 of the tram). That can easily be made a lot better though, so some trams from Toton could be 'limited stop', reducing the journey time to Beeston and the city centre.
Trams can also be stacked up ready ... think Hillsborough (Munich, Stuttgart, Lille, Lyon etc).
Tram train kit could be introduced ... I know is dreamland because the money isn't there, but I emphasise (a) the word could, and (b) Toton is not my preferred option, although the 'campus' idea would fit there.

Public transport in the UK outside of London is pathetic. France, Germany, Spain, Holland are terrific by comparison (there are many other examples too). However, Nottingham is light years ahead of other UK cities for buses (Manchester are catching up). Brum is ahead on trams. The issue locally is trains, chronic underinvestment over many years and successive Governments has left us in a mess.

I just checked the latest train times from Nottingham, given that a midweek match means a rush to get the last one. It's not as bad as I thought, although capacity is woefully inadequate, travel times are long, facilities are worse than the WFCG, and the fares are not cheap. Unless you are heading to the Far East (Lincolnshire) or Worksop then you can in theory get an evening train home after a match.

Last train to:

Grantham, Boston, Peterborough 20.51 NBG at all
Worksop 21.25 NBG
Mansfield 22.22
Newark (Castle), Lincoln 22.37
Derby 23.49
Matlock 21.55
Leicester 23.20
Sheffield 23.18

Stops in between are a problem as not all are served. Hopefully these things will improve as funding is devolved to the region, whether or not Forest stay, move, whatever.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

You ain't ever getting lower ticket prices than they are now whatever happens things never go backwards

That maybe true but you will deffo not get low ticket prices with mega demand and short supply thats economics 101.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Perhaps some wag with IT skills could rework the Elvis costello hit tune as "I Don't Want to go To Toton".
Where's Bonfy when you need IT support?

 

[Captain Sinister]

That maybe true but you will deffo not get low ticket prices with mega demand and short supply thats economics 101.

With 50,000 seats to sell in a stadium burdened with £700 million of interest-bearing debt, EM better pray we never get relegated.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

With 50,000 seats to sell in a stadium burdened with £700 million of interest-bearing debt, EM better pray we never get relegated.

Exactly and I dont want that either, so this is where I say pros and cons here. Of course we are not privy to all the detail at this stage, so when I say open minded. I mean lets wait for the detail than judge. If we are gonna be burdened with a 700 million pound debt and moved to Toton in a souless bowl. Than everyone will be absolutley be put off. I dont want that at all.

However if for example as I said we manage to relocate to say the Weir Sports Ground with new transport links created to get on the by pass quiclkly and a direct tram into town. With funding thats not loaded onto the club or fully costed than I am not against something like that. With that proposal we are still on the banks of the trent and have transport links to town. Be a recreartion of the build like the City Ground so no bowl design and have a state of art sports village. Now my proposal is probably absolute pie in the sky talk and I accept that but if there was a proposal that was workable similar to what I put I wouldnt be against it. It just needs to satisfy all the supporters needs.

 

[REDDERS78]

Shit hole village? Clearly you're not familiar with Toton.....

Nor do I have any desire to be, too close to derby. Its never struck me an area natural beauty when I've passed through

Either way, a terrible location for a franchise football club.

The End

 

[Notcher]

Of those 4 stands only 1 witnessed a league title and European Cups, only 2 stands witnessed league cups. The ground is not the same as it was in the golden years, the stands are not the same, the seats are not the same the pitch isn’t the same. The grounds stagnated for nearly 30 years like we did for over 20. We need a new stadium whichever way you look at it. My preference would be to knock it down and rebuild it on site. If that’s not possible we will have to relocate Hopefully near the Trent, if that’s not possible close to the city. I doubt we will ever be at Toton.

It's a philosophical concept called The ship of Thesus. The modern day equivalent is "triggers broom" from only fools and horses.

You could argue this about, the supporters, players and staff but what it does have is perpetual continuity. Removing the club from the existing space removes a significant amount of the continuity, even more so given the emotional attachment.

 

[chaospunx]

That maybe true but you will deffo not get low ticket prices with mega demand and short supply thats economics 101.

In not trying to get low ticket prices ours arnt that bad in the grand scheme of things each person's opinion is there own mine is if we move that will be it for me my son is getting towards the age he doesn't need me to take him so it wo t affect him this has pissed me off that much if it wasn't for him I wouldn't be going Saturday ice not even looked or been interested in the build up to this game since this news.
Emmo if you want to take my slightly grumpy but funny son on Saturday you can have my ticket
These are my views and others may think differently but alot if friends i speak to are as equally as pissed off
Know one gives a shit about a tram link we want to support our club in our home how I get there is little Importance to me

 

[Statto]

Perhaps some wag with IT skills could rework the Elvis costello hit tune as "I Don't Want to go To Toton".
Where's Bonfy when you need IT support?

He got called out to help get Crewton off the ceiling as he got so high on Haribo and prime at the promotion party he started floating.

Not even sure there was helium involved this time either (not that it makes much difference with him anyway) lol

 

[Lady Penelope]

Exactly and I dont want that either, so this is where I say pros and cons here. Of course we are not privy to all the detail at this stage, so when I say open minded. I mean lets wait for the detail than judge. If we are gonna be burdened with a 700 million pound debt and moved to Toton in a souless. Than everyone will be absolutley be put off. I dont want that at all.

However if for example as I said we manage to relocate to say the Weir Sports Ground with new transport links created to get on the by pass quiclkly and a direct tram into town. With funding thats not loaded onto the club or fully costed than I am not against something like that. With that proposal we are still on the banks of the trent and have transport links to town. Be a recreartion of the build like the City Ground so no bowl design and have a state of art sports village. Now my proposal is probably absolute pie in the sky talk and I accept that but if there was a proposal that was workable similar to what I put I wouldnt be against it. It just needs to satisfy all the supporters needs.

Yes, finding the site at a realistic price is the problem. Staying where we are and being limited by planning issues is also a major problem, so open minded we must be.

 

[Lefkasman]

This conversation is like déjà vu for me after living in Leicester when they were moving from Filbert street. Everyone panicking that they were moving out of town.
In the end they moved a couple of hundred metres.

Sent from my 23124RA7EO using Tapatalk

 

[Robertson]

This conversation is like déjà vu for me after living in Leicester when they were moving from Filbert street. Everyone panicking that they were moving out of town.
In the end they moved a couple of hundred metres.

Sent from my 23124RA7EO using Tapatalk

Yeah though having the conversation and stating a preference not to move six miles outside the city is still important I guess. Wasn’t there something about consultation with the fans in the article yesterday?