The World Famous City Ground - Home of the PROPER WORLD‘S OLDEST LEAGUE CLUB

[Arsebishop Desmond TwoTwo]

Well, perhaps maybe you should? When you sign up for this forum, you agree to abide by its rules. And yes, there are some.

As I’ve posted many times before, we tend to operate a light-touch regime of moderation, depending on the user-base to behave themselves, which to their credit, they mostly do.

And I can absolutely assure you, we are as even-handed as possible as Moderators. With everyone.

We will only step in when something has been reported to us, or, when we spot something that we - as a Moderating team - collectively agree steps over a line. We don’t (and we never have) make arbitrary decisions individually.

Your personal opinions on how the forum „has gone down hill and is full of gobshites, hypocrite, piss takers“ is your opinion. I don’t agree with it, but it’s your opinion, so as a neutral moderator, I respect it. The forum has always prided itself on its irreverent humour and off-beat discussion, and we want to retain that, because it’s an essential part of what makes us a little bit different.

And please, stop with the persecution complex. Neither I, nor any other moderator, is picking on you specifically, nor are we individually picking out anyone else. We take moderating decisions as a team, by collective discussion, based on a majority opinion, the way we always have, and as such, it would not be possible for me to commandeer the entire forum, as my moderating colleagues would no doubt, pull me up (and, rightly so).

As we have posted before, the forum has seen a substantial rise in traffic since Forest regained Premier League status, and that has meant an influx of new posters, and the return of some old ones. Not everybody has found this situation satisfactory, as we have to balance opinion, but again, this is something we have always done (or tried to do, anyway).

There are other Forest-related forums, of course, but as many folk tell us, they are not as open as this one. That is something we want to keep.

There's no persecution complex; I don't feel picked on and I'm quite big and ugly enough to deal with that - should I feel it's happening - be it in person or online. Thank you for your concern, mind.

The fact is . . . a very popular, knowledgeable and well regarded/liked - rightly so - forum member no longer engages here because of the absolute state of the place. You've called me out on it and said I'm incorrect - which is all well and good - but you've ignored my question to you as to how you deem that to be so in your reply and I'd like an answer please, without naming or drawing that person into the debate.

Let's not beat about the bush here; I don't like your style of moderation on this forum. I think it's too cliquey, political and opinionated but, that said, I wouldn't want to do it myself, I couldn't be arsed with it all, so I admire the fact that you - and your fellow mods - do it and it is, actually, appreciated and respected. I understand it to be necessary in terms of dealing with problems such as racism, sexism, all forms of bigotry, potential libel, etc and I do appreciate the need for it. But I think you need to learn how to separate your views - and perhaps even profiles - as a moderator and poster.

I've had numerous profiles on this site. The first I asked to be removed as this change, this turn of the forum from a light hearted, fun, edgy accompaniment to supporting Forest . . . and that's all it is, to me . . . . was beginning to show the signs of turning into the cess pit of polarised views and bullying that it is today. It went hand in hand with promotion, funnily enough, the influx of the new cohort of new and improved, Premier League, Forest fans! The next couple, returning after missing a bit of the content on offer here, the poster in question in particular, I took a more casual approach . . . and ended up being banned (well, I say 'banned' but what it actually seems you like to do is restrict a posters ability to sign in. There is no email to say "you have been banned, f*** off", which would be much more honest and palatable . . . just a time out on trying to log in. Confirm or deny, I don't care either way) for reasons anything other than those previously mentioned. Not me, not what I do . . . I just like talking in 'Notts Speak. You - and your fellow moderators don't, it would seem. Rules and regulations, eh? I don't claim to be an angel but anything I've done isn't to do with racism, sexism, bigotry, libel or any such thing; yew n yew mods jus' dewent lahk being' called aht on stuff, not yer, duck? Too aye 'n' mighteh forrit.

Anyway, there was another one who - rightly - got banned (properly) after a brief half hour on the site (Boutros Boutros Garibaldi, if you're interested) and now this one, feeling all familiarly dismayed at the absolute, thick as boxing day turds, that frequent the place. And I do, I really do, lay the blame for that squarely at your feet. You've allowed it to happen, you've allowed a clique to develop and you preside over the fat, fecking lot.

I've felt a slow release come over me as I wrote this, I'm ready to be banned/removed - no longer wishing or having any desire to be a part of this shit show - so do please go ahead! I do hope our absent friend comes on and says goodbye or - as it's apparently not true and, again, one of us is a liar - hello at some point. That is, of course, entirely up to him.

I'm oot.

 

[Any Time Now]

So, I think I've found a way of paying the £1m per annum lease for the ground. Last year according to GiveMeSport.com we spent over £13m on agents. Find a way of cutting back on the agents fees and use it to pay the City Ground lease.

Jorge Mendes dislikes this post

 

[Far have we travelled]

Perhaps some wag with IT skills could rework the Elvis costello hit tune as "I Don't Want to go To Toton".
Where's Bonfy when you need IT support?

Was thinking similar.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

In not trying to get low ticket prices ours arnt that bad in the grand scheme of things each person's opinion is there own mine is if we move that will be it for me my son is getting towards the age he doesn't need me to take him so it wo t affect him this has pissed me off that much if it wasn't for him I wouldn't be going Saturday ice not even looked or been interested in the build up to this game since this news.
Emmo if you want to take my slightly grumpy but funny son on Saturday you can have my ticket
These are my views and others may think differently but alot if friends i speak to are as equally as pissed off
Know one gives a shit about a tram link we want to support our club in our home how I get there is little Importance to me

And that is fair, I am not trying to be argumentative here I just think we need to dial down the emotion until we get details of any potential project. Calling Tom Cartledge a Tory Tom for example is just daft when you dont know any of the detail at this point. If it turns out they want Toton and its a souless bowl and his company is doing all the work than crack on have a go. Even than though to use Tory as a pejorative is just daft when a good chunk of Forest fans are Tories and without them wed be half the force.


The problem is you have a ticket you see if I were in your position or your sons where I could get a ticket whenever I wanted one than I wouldnt be open to the idea of moving. Problem is demand now. The chairman has said we get demand 50K and above for a few games. Season ticket waiting list through the roof as well. So there isnt enough seats period. My preference is stay at the WFCG, it gives me goosebumps walking over Trent Bridge and seeing it. I nearly always take a picture but what good is that now when you cant get tickets?

I cant go to every game because I dont have the time living 2 hours away and I dont have the money. I am not a day tripper or a tourist I am just someone with Nottingham roots taken away from the City at a young age. I went to loads of League 1 games. I just used to go to 5-10 games per season. There are thosands like that and they are effectively shut off. In the age of FFP we need to maximise that revenue. Also our general commercial revenue is pitiful for a club that has a demand of 50K in the prem.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Was thinking similar.

Do we have great minds, or are we fools?

 

[YellowBelly Red]

Build a new stadium on a retail park, and you get just that. A football ground surrounded by shops.

You won't get a Stratford Haven, a TBI, a Trent Navigation, nor will you get a Bridgeford Fish Bar, an Eva's grill, a pork cob shop.

The matchday experience will also diminish.

 

[Notcher]

There's no persecution complex; I don't feel picked on and I'm quite big and ugly enough to deal with that - should I feel it's happening - be it in person or online. Thank you for your concern, mind.

The fact is . . . a very popular, knowledgeable and well regarded/liked - rightly so - forum member no longer engages here because of the absolute state of the place. You've called me out on it and said I'm incorrect - which is all well and good - but you've ignored my question to you as to how you deem that to be so in your reply and I'd like an answer please, without naming or drawing that person into the debate.

Let's not beat about the bush here; I don't like your style of moderation on this forum. I think it's too cliquey, political and opinionated but, that said, I wouldn't want to do it myself, I couldn't be arsed with it all, so I admire the fact that you - and your fellow mods - do it and it is, actually, appreciated and respected. I understand it to be necessary in terms of dealing with problems such as racism, sexism, all forms of bigotry, potential libel, etc and I do appreciate the need for it. But I think you need to learn how to separate your views - and perhaps even profiles - as a moderator and poster.

I've had numerous profiles on this site. The first I asked to be removed as this change, this turn of the forum from a light hearted, fun, edgy accompaniment to supporting Forest . . . and that's all it is, to me . . . . was beginning to show the signs of turning into the cess pit of polarised views and bullying that it is today. It went hand in hand with promotion, funnily enough, the influx of the new cohort of new and improved, Premier League, Forest fans! The next couple, returning after missing a bit of the content on offer here, the poster in question in particular, I took a more casual approach . . . and ended up being banned (well, I say 'banned' but what it actually seems you like to do is restrict a posters ability to sign in. There is no email to say "you have been banned, f*** off", which would be much more honest and palatable . . . just a time out on trying to log in. Confirm or deny, I don't care either way) for reasons anything other than those previously mentioned. Not me, not what I do . . . I just like talking in 'Notts Speak. You - and your fellow moderators don't, it would seem. Rules and regulations, eh? I don't claim to be an angel but anything I've done isn't to do with racism, sexism, bigotry, libel or any such thing; yew n yew mods jus' dewent lahk being' called aht on stuff, not yer, duck? Too aye 'n' mighteh forrit.

Anyway, there was another one who - rightly - got banned (properly) after a brief half hour on the site (Boutros Boutros Garibaldi, if you're interested) and now this one, feeling all familiarly dismayed at the absolute, thick as boxing day turds, that frequent the place. And I do, I really do, lay the blame for that squarely at your feet. You've allowed it to happen, you've allowed a clique to develop and you preside over the fat, fecking lot.

I've felt a slow release come over me as I wrote this, I'm ready to be banned/removed - no longer wishing or having any desire to be a part of this shit show - so do please go ahead! I do hope our absent friend comes on and says goodbye or - as it's apparently not true and, again, one of us is a liar - hello at some point. That is, of course, entirely up to him.

I'm oot.

I honestly don't know what you expect from a forum. It's not a eutopian world or echo chamber. It's never going to be perfect and it never will, nor will any other forum in the world. The mods from what I can see do the best job that they can, I've even been asked to wind it in a couple of times in the 12 years or so that I've been on here but I appreciate it's not their full time job and any environment that host a vast amount of people is almost impossible to police to the satisfaction of everyone.

I have a very different political view to most people on here, most are left leaning and I'm centre right, I've had disagreements and that's fine. It's an acceptance that we have different experiences, we've seen different things and we come at from a different perspective, therefore I stay out of the politics thread and stick to the football ones. From that the optics might appear as cliques but the love of forest and the overarching factor that everyone just wants the best for the club is good enough for me.

I've had a few battles with several posters over my time but never felt the need to block anyone at all and I certainly wouldn't throw my toys out the pram if a moderator stepped in or disagreed.

 

[Chappers85]

Of those 4 stands only 1 witnessed a league title and European Cups, only 2 stands witnessed league cups. The ground is not the same as it was in the golden years, the stands are not the same, the seats are not the same the pitch isn’t the same. The grounds stagnated for nearly 30 years like we did for over 20. We need a new stadium whichever way you look at it. My preference would be to knock it down and rebuild it on site. If that’s not possible we will have to relocate Hopefully near the Trent, if that’s not possible close to the city. I doubt we will ever be at Toton.

You can knock the stands down, you can rebuild them. You can dig up the pitch and replant it. Players will be sold and replaced. The ownership will change hands. The faces in the crowd will grow older and disappear to be replaced by younger relatives. The chants will evolve and change. But the spirit, the soul, the very essence of the club is on that piece of land, and it goes way beyond the physical foundations of stadium. That's how I see it. Yesterday, I called it a generational legacy. That's what that ground is. We lose it, it's like cutting off whole branches of the family tree.

"This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family?" - Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant (in other words: The Ship of Theseus Paradox)

 

[Robertson]

Build a new stadium on a retail park, and you get just that. A football ground surrounded by shops.

You won't get a Stratford Haven, a TBI, a Trent Navigation, nor will you get a Bridgeford Fish Bar, an Eva's grill, a pork cob shop.

The matchday experience will also diminish.

Indeed. I have no idea why a new stadium being surrounded by a half dozen identikit Madri & Nacho hellhole 'fanzones' is being painted as a good thing because the club will make a few more quid out of it. It's a drop in the ocean compared to both wages and TV money.

 

[Notcher]

It's a philosophical concept called The ship of Thesus. The modern day equivalent is "triggers broom" from only fools and horses.

You could argue this about, the supporters, players and staff but what it does have is perpetual continuity. Removing the club from the existing space removes a significant amount of the continuity, even more so given the emotional attachment.

@Chappers85 Funnily enough I mentioned the ship of thesus a few posts up.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

@Chappers85 Funnily enough I mentioned the ship of thesus a few posts up.

Also as I said without trying to be argumentative. City Ground isnt our original home. If we want to get into the pedantics The Forest Recreational Ground is our spiritual home, thats how we got our bleeding name! What made City Ground what it is, is time and shared experiences. The setting also made it as well. A new home would become our spiritual home but only after time has elapsed and in a nice setting.

So it is possible that a move would become a spiritual home but problem is it could also be shite. I think aesthetics around the new stadium will matter. I have been to Pride Park, Stadium of Light and the Riverside. All are just meh when you go. They lack any matchday experience. However if you look at Birmingham City's new proposal I actually think that looks good. I am not against a sports village but I think you need proper pubs and homegrown business to move in. If you fill it full of chains than it will be shit. A move just needs to be handled with delicacy. For example if we moved why dont we consult some former ex players and famous supporters and see if they want to open a new pub. Stuart Broad runs a pub in Leicestershire, why dont we approach Broady and see if ex players will go in with him? WHy dont you ask Bridgeford Fish Bar, Eva's grill, the pork cob shop if they want to move in with clubs help and have shops out there? Bring the experience with us?!? There can be an exciting vision somewhere else if handled creatively and delicatley.

 

[DanR]

I've seen mention of the Beeston weir field in a few posts, living about 10-15 minutes walk away this would of course be ideal (and I could go to the Vic for a post-match pint or ten), however, the major stumbling block is that the weir field is the flood plain and is deliberately left without building upon (until a day as a greedy developer offers Michael Gove enough cash to ignore this crucial fact).

 

[Chappers85]

@Chappers85 Funnily enough I mentioned the ship of thesus a few posts up.

I missed that. Great minds

 

[chaospunx]

And that is fair, I am not trying to be argumentative here I just think we need to dial down the emotion until we get details of any potential project. Calling Tom Cartledge a Tory Tom for example is just daft when you dont know any of the detail at this point. If it turns out they want Toton and its a souless bowl and his company is doing all the work than crack on have a go. Even than though to use Tory as a pejorative is just daft when a good chunk of Forest fans are Tories and without them wed be half the force.


The problem is you have a ticket you see if I were in your position or your sons where I could get a ticket whenever I wanted one than I wouldnt be open to the idea of moving. Problem is demand now. The chairman has said we get demand 50K and above for a few games. Season ticket waiting list through the roof as well. So there isnt enough seats period. My preference is stay at the WFCG, it gives me goosebumps walking over Trent Bridge and seeing it. I nearly always take a picture but what good is that now when you cant get tickets?

I cant go to every game because I dont have the time living 2 hours away and I dont have the money. I am not a day tripper or a tourist I am just someone with Nottingham roots taking away from the City at a young age. I went to loads of League 1 games. I just used to go to 5-10 games per season. There are thosands like that and they are effectively shut off. In the age of FFP we need to maximise that revenue. Also our general commercial revenue is pitiful for a club that has a demand of 50K in the prem.

I dont see you as argumentative and I agree the ground could do with being bigger but the council are open to discussion I that regard seems the club arnt I'd have more respect for them if they had the bollocks to just say we don't care what you want we want to move I'd hate it but I could at least accept it its the snakey way they do everything that's what pisses me off drip feed you shit untill you yourself think it's a good idea I'm stubborn as f*** on these type of things and will 100% cut my nose off to spite my face.
The club love to use us in there press shit oh our magnificent fans got us through well how about you listen to them before you lose loads of them.
Personal opinion and Controversial as it is we would be better off in the championship we could keep our club and identify

 

[EmmersonForest4]

I've seen mention of the Beeston weir field in a few posts, living about 10-15 minutes walk away this would of course be ideal (and I could go to the Vic for a post-match pint or ten), however, the major stumbling block is that the weir field is the flood plain and is deliberately left without building upon (until a day as a greedy developer offers Michael Gove enough cash to ignore this crucial fact).

Yeah I was just looking at decent sites on a map, I said it was probably pie in the sky stuff but just thinking what I would tolerate if we moved. Somewhere on the trent is what I want if we had to move so we dont lose Mull of Kintyre.

 

[sammy the snake]

It also seems disingenuous, like the club is looking for an excuse to leave

And you know what? If they are then communicate with the supporters… don’t test the water with f***ing media that couldn’t give a shit

1. Do you want to move away from the City Ground = No

Pay an increased rent and shut the f*** up Forest.

 

[Flaggers]

The harsh reality is that the club is owned by Evangelos Marinakis and Socrates Kominakis, and the people of Nottingham, and beyond, are it's customers.

On the financial scale clubs now operate at we, the supporters, can't even use the 'I pay the wages' line you could trot out in the 80s... they'll have been years recently where we've barely covered the agent fees.

Yeah but not long ago we weren't, and were owned by Fawaz.

And before that, Doughty.

And before that... Etc

Owners, like kings and queens, come and go.

Sometimes with their head on a spike.

 

[Gyros Peter]

Yeah but not long ago we weren't, and were owned by Fawaz.

And before that, Doughty.

And before that... Etc

Owners, like kings and queens, come and go.

Sometimes with their head on a spike.

Indeed, but the only one that matters is the one you have.

I'd imagine Marinakis might be in for a surprise when he realises most of the fan base don't want a shiny new stadium complex - will be interesting to see what happens when he realises the fans don't have the same level of ambition for the club as he does. Not that he'll care - seems he's hardwired to achieve success.

It's funny, with most clubs fans Moab that the owners aren't doing enough. With us we worry he'll do too much.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

I dont see you as argumentative and I agree the ground could do with being bigger but the council are open to discussion I that regard seems the club arnt I'd have more respect for them if they had the bollocks to just say we don't care what you want we want to move I'd hate it but I could at least accept it its the snakey way they do everything that's what pisses me off drip feed you shit untill you yourself think it's a good idea I'm stubborn as f*** on these type of things and will 100% cut my nose off to spite my face.
The club love to use us in there press shit oh our magnificent fans got us through well how about you listen to them before you lose loads of them.
Personal opinion and Controversial as it is we would be better off in the championship we could keep our club and identify

Its frustrating because I really wish to know what the clubs objections are to the council. I want to see why they feel talks are broken, because to move the costs of staying must really be bad. Unless really the big problem isnt the rent its more the expansion. Maybe the expansion is going to be a mega costly and not doable with some stakeholders putting the dampners on it.

I know people want to say Tom Cartledge wants a move I dont believe that. He wants to stay I believe so there must be a reason why they are looking at alternatives. Maybe this is just a game of bluff to try and get some rent knocked off?

 

[Redemption]

I'm old enough to remember when the rowing was holding the club hostage and there was incandescent rage over them blocking the development. In fact, you were a club traitor if you drank there on a match day.

Fans seem to need a bogey man for everything.

 

[Notcher]

Also as I said without trying to be argumentative. City Ground isnt our original home. If we want to get into the pedantics The Forest Recreational Ground is our spiritual home, thats how we got our bleeding name! What made City Ground what it is, is time and shared experiences. The setting also made it as well. A new home would become our spiritual home but only after time has elapsed and in a nice setting.

So it is possible that a move would become a spiritual home but problem is it could also be shite. I think aesthetics around the new stadium will matter. I have been to Pride Park, Stadium of Light and the Riverside. All are just meh when you go. They lack any matchday experience. However if you look at Birmingham City's new proposal I actually think that looks good. I am not against a sports village but I think you need proper pubs and homegrown business to move in. If you fill it full of chains than it will be shit. A move just needs to be handled with delicacy. For example if we moved why dont we consult some former ex players and famous supporters and see if they want to open a new pub. Stuart Broad runs a pub in Leicestershire, why dont we approach Broady and see if ex players will go in with him? WHy dont you ask Bridgeford Fish Bar, Eva's grill, the pork cob shop if they want to move in with clubs help and have shops out there? Bring the experience with us?!? There can be an exciting vision somewhere else if handled creatively and delicatley.

I don't see it as you being argumentative Emmo, it's debate and you coming from a differing viewpoint, no issue whatsoever. I just see the whole thing differently and don't share the optimism that a different location could ever be the same.

I'm very fortunate in that I have a beautiful healthy family and children, I have a professional job and I earn good money but honestly if we ever moved from the city ground, a piece of me would die inside.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

Indeed, but the only one that matters is the one you have.

I'd imagine Marinakis might be in for a surprise when he realises most of the fan base don't want a shiny new stadium complex - will be interesting to see what happens when he realises the fans don't have the same level of ambition for the club as he does. Not that he'll care - seems he's hardwired to achieve success.

It's funny, with most clubs fans Moab that the owners aren't doing enough. With us we worry he'll do too much.

In fairness there will be loads of fans like me who want to be able to see Forest when I am free more than staying at the City Ground. Demand is over 50K for a few games. Its not sustaianable to do nothing. Something has to be done, if its an expanded WFCG than I will be estatic.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

I don't see it as you being argumentative Emmo, it's debate and you coming from a differing viewpoint, no issue whatsoever. I just see the whole thing differently and don't share the optimism that a different location could ever be the same.

I'm very fortunate in that I have a beautiful healthy family and children, I have a professional job and I earn good money but honestly if we ever moved from the city ground, a piece of me would die inside.

Yes and I agree in sense. If I lived close by and always had a ticket id probably be even more vehemently in the dont move camp. All I will say is anything is possible and change isnt always bad nor is it always good. Which is why I can see both points of view. You would have to make it spectacular if a move is done. Than maybe over time your may feel less like you are dead inside. My journey was from being dead against moving and I was firmly in that camp. Since Coopers championship season though I have softened as even trying to get tickets when we were promoted towards the end was a bit of a nightmare. Than demand to be over 50K now and anyone not having a season ticket its a proper downer.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

It wasn't that long ago people were calling out the Toxicity Ground and now look at her.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

Forest belongs to Nottingham and its people, not some shit hole village that borders derbyshire because land was cheap. It simply wouldnt be Nottingham Forest any longer, the current club wouldnt exist. May as well be Forest Dons.

FTITA Forest Till its Taken Away.

Forest Dons