The Jason Lee Debate

[BringBackJemo]

lots of really sanctimonious people on here about this. I'm mid-40's remember it vividly and I at no time looked at it as racist. Crap humour, but not racist. It's funny that if you kill someone there is completely different stance depending on whether it was intentional (murder) or un-intentional/mitigated (manslaughter), and yet when it comes to racism - you're just a racist regardless of intent. I'd like to think people's intentions have a breadth and a context - was it pretty lame humour that went on for too long and very quickly looked completely out of touch - YES, was it a comedian being consciously racist towards a black guy - NOT REALLY.
I am very conscious that things I did as a teen would be totally unacceptable now, my 'job' is to learn and ensure my kids view and act differently, not to wallow in self pity about who I might have offended thirty years ago.
He's apologised, Jason (who is clearly a very intelligent and thoughtful guy) has said the matter is closed, just move the f*** on and deal with the huge number of shitty things that are happening today.

 

[Ashley]

lots of really sanctimonious people on here about this. I'm mid-40's remember it vividly and I at no time looked at it as racist. Crap humour, but not racist. It's funny that if you kill someone there is completely different stance depending on whether it was intentional (murder) or un-intentional/mitigated (manslaughter), and yet when it comes to racism - you're just a racist regardless of intent. I'd like to think people's intentions have a breadth and a context - was it pretty lame humour that went on for too long and very quickly looked completely out of touch - YES, was it a comedian being consciously racist towards a black guy - NOT REALLY.
I am very conscious that things I did as a teen would be totally unacceptable now, my 'job' is to learn and ensure my kids view and act differently, not to wallow in self pity about who I might have offended thirty years ago.
He's apologised, Jason (who is clearly a very intelligent and thoughtful guy) has said the matter is closed, just move the f*** on and deal with the huge number of shitty things that are happening today.

I agree. It was shit and ill-thought out, but I highly doubt there was any racist intent behind it.

Still poor that the apology took so long, but better late than never and if the man himself considers the case closed then so should everyone else.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

I guess that’s the trouble with topical comedy. Making a joke that doesn’t offend someone, somewhere is incredibly difficult.

Maybe comedians should be like Frankie Boyle & not give a f***?

Of course, 30 years from now, FB will be offering out a shit load of apologies.

Listening to Boyle, I'd say he's one of the most careful comedians out there. Context and subject/object is everything.

 

[Morpeth]

lots of really sanctimonious people on here about this. I'm mid-40's remember it vividly and I at no time looked at it as racist. Crap humour, but not racist. It's funny that if you kill someone there is completely different stance depending on whether it was intentional (murder) or un-intentional/mitigated (manslaughter), and yet when it comes to racism - you're just a racist regardless of intent. I'd like to think people's intentions have a breadth and a context - was it pretty lame humour that went on for too long and very quickly looked completely out of touch - YES, was it a comedian being consciously racist towards a black guy - NOT REALLY.
I am very conscious that things I did as a teen would be totally unacceptable now, my 'job' is to learn and ensure my kids view and act differently, not to wallow in self pity about who I might have offended thirty years ago.
He's apologised, Jason (who is clearly a very intelligent and thoughtful guy) has said the matter is closed, just move the f*** on and deal with the huge number of shitty things that are happening today.

This is my opinion.

It went on far too long but it never felt racist at the time and when you look back it's no different to the prick on the new version dressing up as a fat opera tenor.

Tedious, yes. Racist, no.

And strangely, just because Jason Lee and David Baddiel say it was, doesn't make it so.

No one is seriously suggesting they purposely took the piss out of his hair because Lee was black are they? Not once have I heard that.

 

[Fawazzock]

He went on and on and on about Jason Lee, over many months, in heinous fashion. Now he's town crier about racism.

Apology accepted Baddiel, now shut up and f*** off.

Shame on anyone giving him a platform.

 

[REDDERS78]

I don't think the race aspect of this "joke" was ever an issue at the time, only now. I find it very hard to understand how comedians or celebrities are often pulled up for something that happened many years ago that was not frowned upon at the time. Looking back it looks terrible, but we live in a very different way these days.

If everyone got slaughtered for something they did 25 years ago that's deemed unacceptable today then there would be nobody alive.

 

[Master Yates]

I don’t think there was racist intent and I don’t think “blackface” is always as heinous a crime as it’s made out to be (if it’s impersonating someone and not specifically lampooning their race like the Minstrels).

I understand the general stance on this has changed now and there are all sorts of other issues that mean blackface is considered more offensive than it seems, so I’m not saying I’m the right person to judge.

But even taking into account the fact it was 25 years ago, featuring a sketch every single episode that mocked one particular player, something that no other player got, is very obviously bullying, whether it’s a joke or not.

I don’t think anyone can seriously deny that. Not a case of Jason being overly sensitive or not taking a joke, it was EVERY WEEK and ALWAYS Jason. So he’s well within his rights to be offended by it. Even at the time I remember thinking it was out of order to single out JL and it was unfair. So you can easily understand why JL might assume it’s racially motivated.

Baddiel is also about as funny as a kick in the bollocks. He owes Frank Skinner (very funny) his whole career. A bit like Paddy McGuinness and Peter Kay.


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[DizzyBala]

I think it would have been racist to people of colour 25 years ago, but as people have said, attitudes towards blackface and "comedy" of that nature have changed since. Look at Little Britain, that was running from 2003 to 2007 and was arguably the biggest comedy show at the time but that went far beyond fantasy football.

Some of that fantasy football stuff was actually quite funny, when it came to his footballing ability and like it or not, Jason had a pretty bad trim. That part of the sketch still holds up.

The race aspect of the jokes are scuffed though.

 

[YellowBelly Red]

JL was a decent footballer, and a great bloke.

I'm also pleased that society has moved on from those times.

 

[valspoodle]

I can't stand this epidemic of so-called comedians.

As Jonathan Miller said, it's verbal terrorism.

 

[Danga]

It is racist because the specifically focused on what was and still is an Afro-Caribbean hairstyle. Much like if they would have mocked him for having an afro or corn rows. There is a sense of culture identity around these hairstyles and they are something which (in the majority) are unique to black people and black culture.

Whether you think it was racist or not is quite frankly irrelevant, it was and it still is coming from a POV of base racism.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

It is racist because the specifically focused on what was and still is an Afro-Caribbean hairstyle. Much like if they would have mocked him for having an afro or corn rows. There is a sense of culture identity around these hairstyles and they are something which (in the majority) are unique to black people and black culture.

Whether you think it was racist or not is quite frankly irrelevant, it was and it still is coming from a POV of base racism.

If hairstyles can't be mocked, whatever age we're in, then society is well and truly f**ked. Imagine seeing and African comedy show mocking Mullets, would you be upset? I wouldn't, I'd probably laugh.

The way B&S did it relentlessly was lame, but I don't see any difference between folk mocking Lee's haircut as I do folk taking the piss out of Beckham's sarong. It's just fashion, nothing to get upset over.

 

[Dirk Furtull]

Lee's haircut isn't an issue. He had dreadlocks - what was he supposed to do with them whilst playing? Are those saying he had a shit haircut actually saying anyone with dreads has shit hair?



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[Hungry Horace]

If hairstyles can't be mocked, whatever age we're in, then society is well and truly f**ked. Imagine seeing and African comedy show mocking Mullets, would you be upset? I wouldn't, I'd probably laugh.

The way B&S did it relentlessly was lame, but I don't see any difference between folk mocking Lee's haircut as I do folk taking the piss out of Beckham's sarong. It's just fashion, nothing to get upset over.

As far as I’m aware (and I’m happy to stand corrected) there’s no cultural or religious significance to mullets, nor a history of slavery, persecution and discrimination against the wearers thereof though.


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[BringBackJemo]

f*** me, some of the self righteous, twattishness on this thread is unreal. Absolute desperation to create a problem and magnify it. Some appear more offended than Jason himself. Now the circular discussion of haircuts and cultural identity - it’s ethnic group A’s haircut and we’ve decided not only is no one else allowed it but it’s also fundamental to all the suppression of the past. It’s like a militant group of catholics self flagellating.

 

[GOBIAS]

I saw a clip of the baddiel doc about Jews.

When I was a kid at school there were a few jew jokes knocking about. But has anyone actually heard someone be racist against Jews? Do they get discriminated against in the UK on a day to day basis?

Half the people appearing on his documentary I didn’t even realise were Jewish. Which surely says it all.

 

[rockhopper]

Are we really calling it racist because of his hair style now, scouses and curly perms have been getting it for years but nobody trumpets them as being persecuted, it was a bloody joke, f*** all racist about it

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[Sib]

When I was a kid at school there were a few jew jokes knocking about. But has anyone actually heard someone be racist against Jews?

I think you answered your own question.

 

[GOBIAS]

I think you answered your own question.

Not really. This was 30 odd years ago and I’m on about in a pub, or to a Jewish individual. There are some quite high profile Jews and I don’t hear it. I don’t hear lads in pubs, people chit chatting racist shit against Jews that I do hear against many other groups.

Just because I’ve not seen or heard it it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Was just interested to hear if others have.

 

[Morpeth]

Not really. This was 30 odd years ago and I’m on about in a pub, or to a Jewish individual. There are some quite high profile Jews and I don’t hear it. I don’t hear lads in pubs, people chit chatting racist shit against Jews that I do hear against many other groups.

Just because I’ve not seen or heard it it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Was just interested to hear if others have.

Never heard it once in real life.

 

[Rockabilly]

The Old Trent End sang a couple Jewish pi55 takes when Spurs came to town.

 

[Sib]

Not really. This was 30 odd years ago and I’m on about in a pub, or to a Jewish individual. There are some quite high profile Jews and I don’t hear it. I don’t hear lads in pubs, people chit chatting racist shit against Jews that I do hear against many other groups.

Just because I’ve not seen or heard it it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Was just interested to hear if others have.

I have seen and heard it. There is a Wikipedia page if you want to read more about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom

If you are genuinely asking whether it happens, your answer is above.
If you are suggesting that it doesn't exist in the UK, you are simply wrong.

 

[mister]

 

[GOBIAS]

I have seen and heard it. There is a Wikipedia page if you want to read more about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom

If you are genuinely asking whether it happens, your answer is above.
If you are suggesting that it doesn't exist in the UK, you are simply wrong.

I never said it didn’t exist. Maybe I worded it badly. I just don’t think it is as institutionalised as racism against many other groups.

Like I said I’ve never heard the casual, almost accepted racism against Jews that I hear on a near daily basis against many other groups.

 

[Sib]

I never said it didn’t exist. Maybe I worded it badly. I just don’t think it is as institutionalised as racism against many other groups.

Like I said I’ve never heard the casual, almost accepted racism against Jews that I hear on a near daily basis against many other groups.

The fact that you are hearing racism on a daily basis is sad. I don't think the amounts of each type of racism is totally relevent because it's all wrong.

While it exists, we should fight against it. And there is plenty of evidence that it exists.