Lyle James Alfred Taylor

[MASE]

I just felt Hughton was managing him wrong.

This for me is the overriding legacy of the Hughton tenure. There's been a huge amount of flak thrown about Hughton having attacking players at his disposal he didn't utilise, I suspect the reality is he just didnt get anyone to buy into what he was doing. If you haven't got the players on board, then theyre shit & your f**ked.

Buck stops with Hughton naturally, the change in unity & spirit at the club is palpable.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

I just felt Hughton was managing him wrong.

If those leaked whatsapp messages are to be believed then this is a massive understatement

 

[Lee]

This for me is the overriding legacy of the Hughton tenure. There's been a huge amount of flak thrown about Hughton having attacking players at his disposal he didn't utilise, I suspect the reality is he just didnt get anyone to buy into what he was doing. If you haven't got the players on board, then theyre shit & your f**ked.

Buck stops with Hughton naturally, the change in unity & spirit at the club is palpable.

I had a look at the BC forums and they were saying similar things to their team last night as we did to Hughtons teams, defending 1 goal leads, sitting too far back etc etc.

The reality is that he wasn't doing what needed to do..

1. Blood the youngsters
2. prioritising defence over attack to the point it killed any attacking movement.
3. Reluctance to adapt, a simple change of formation and he'd have been halfway there. Yet stubbornly refused to, saying "he didn't have the players"
4. Clearly handicapping players with roles they aren't suited to, Yates, Colback etc are looking reborn..

Some of these weaknesses were known before he came to the club but we all believed in him because of his record.

The main thing is that it finally looks like we've got the right man for the job, props to big Dane for this, long may it continue.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Hughton came in and made us more defensively solid which stopped our immediate rot. We weren't good going forward but it was enough. The season became a write off but ultimately the main objective was to not get relegated.

Pre season should have been spent working on attacking but given on pitch performances it seems that wasn't the case. So when the defence became weaker it rapidly turned into a side that couldn't score and couldn't keep a clean sheet, which is why we were bottom and deservedly so.

Nothing to do with players not buying into it. Didn't see any examples of players not trying or ignoring instructions. They were professional to the end.

 

[Master Yates]

Hughton came in and made us more defensively solid which stopped our immediate rot. We weren't good going forward but it was enough. The season became a write off but ultimately the main objective was to not get relegated.

Pre season should have been spent working on attacking but given on pitch performances it seems that wasn't the case. So when the defence became weaker it rapidly turned into a side that couldn't score and couldn't keep a clean sheet, which is why we were bottom and deservedly so.

Nothing to do with players not buying into it. Didn't see any examples of players not trying or ignoring instructions. They were professional to the end.

I agree that I didn’t see any players not playing for him (a la Megson) but Hughton’s approach was clearly stifling them creatively. Nobody looked like they were enjoying themselves.


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[MASE]

Hughton came in and made us more defensively solid which stopped our immediate rot. We weren't good going forward but it was enough. The season became a write off but ultimately the main objective was to not get relegated.

Pre season should have been spent working on attacking but given on pitch performances it seems that wasn't the case. So when the defence became weaker it rapidly turned into a side that couldn't score and couldn't keep a clean sheet, which is why we were bottom and deservedly so.

Nothing to do with players not buying into it. Didn't see any examples of players not trying or ignoring instructions. They were professional to the end.

How could you know whether players were following instructions?

 

[redforest]

Getting back to the title of this thread, rather than dissecting our previous manager yet again, I’ve just watched Lyle’s interview on Forest TV and what an intelligent and articulate young man he is! Added to this his enthusiasm, positivity and desire to succeed still further has completely reversed my opinion of him and long may it continue. Also he must be getting different instructions because I can’t remember him falling down once or throwing his arms up in the air panto style - well done another by product of the Cooper revolution!

 

[cheapseats]

Hughton came in and made us more defensively solid which stopped our immediate rot. We weren't good going forward but it was enough. The season became a write off but ultimately the main objective was to not get relegated.

Pre season should have been spent working on attacking but given on pitch performances it seems that wasn't the case. So when the defence became weaker it rapidly turned into a side that couldn't score and couldn't keep a clean sheet, which is why we were bottom and deservedly so.

Nothing to do with players not buying into it. Didn't see any examples of players not trying or ignoring instructions. They were professional to the end.

Whilst I’m not going to try and defend Hoots, who looks worse and worse in the rear view mirror I actually think the root of the problem when back further with him. Under Lamouchi we developed a counter attacking modus operandi which became like a nervous tick. We played the percentages which worked initially but became fossilised predictable and totally inflexible. Clearly hoots wasn’t able to fix that which was ridiculous but if we learn anything from the last 2 managers tenure it’s that once size never fits all and you have to be able to adapt…

 

[adam09]

That style fell apart when Lolley got injured. It's crazy how much we relied on him.

 

[Harry1982]

Whilst I’m not going to try and defend Hoots, who looks worse and worse in the rear view mirror I actually think the root of the problem when back further with him. Under Lamouchi we developed a counter attacking modus operandi which became like a nervous tick. We played the percentages which worked initially but became fossilised predictable and totally inflexible. Clearly hoots wasn’t able to fix that which was ridiculous but if we learn anything from the last 2 managers tenure it’s that once size never fits all and you have to be able to adapt…

Some teams are better built around defensive managers. Do get the feel that all the succefulish managers we have had in the last 30odd years Clark, Davies, Warburton, SOD have all been attack minded but definitely more ball on the ground and pass type managers. Maybe it's a curse or a legacy of clough that only his way will ever be a success

 

[cheapseats]

Some teams are better built around defensive managers. Do get the feel that all the succefulish managers we have had in the last 30odd years Clark, Davies, Warburton, SOD have all been attack minded but definitely more ball on the ground and pass type managers. Maybe it's a curse or a legacy of clough that only his way will ever be a success

Yes I think I agree with that.
The only caveat is that sometimes you do have to dig in and show defensive muscle too. Cloughs teams always had that. But they also had players who sensed opportunities even in hard games and efficiently exploited them.

 

[HBB]

This for me is the overriding legacy of the Hughton tenure. There's been a huge amount of flak thrown about Hughton having attacking players at his disposal he didn't utilise, I suspect the reality is he just didnt get anyone to buy into what he was doing. If you haven't got the players on board, then theyre shit & your f**ked.

Buck stops with Hughton naturally, the change in unity & spirit at the club is palpable.

For me the opposite is true Mase, while you can argue about whether in their hearts they bought in to what Hoots wanted its increasingly clear that the way they played under him was his plan and his tactics and they didn't suit the team.

We played defensively from the outset, we played with fear and were set up not lose - yet because we sat back and didn't score we were being bullied every time. The likes of Yates and Colback were completely stymied. I think they lost faith with him and he with them so it was right (and a bit late in retrospect) that they parted ways.

 

[couldabinnacontenda]

Rare pic of LT kneeling in solidarity with team-mates ... #thingsyoujustlovetosee

 

[BryanRoy22]

What I always find interesting is the way players can suddenly be 'reborn' or 'rejuvenated' under a new manager, where they were out of favour or looked awful under their predecessors.

The amount of football fans who wrote off Jack Colback before Steve Cooper arrived? Many. I was guilty of thinking Ben Watson was finished under Karanka and then Lamouchi makes him his key man and restores his confidence.

Good managers select players in the group who they understand can be a major influence on and off the pitch, trust in them and build around them.

I'm hearing Steve Cooper talking up Lewis Grabban constantly. Another one many thought was finished before Cooper arrived. And right now, Grabban looks 'reborn' too. Spring in his step, smile on his face, and able to affect the game exactly much the same as he did under Lamouchi.

 

[cheapseats]

If those leaked whatsapp messages are to be believed then this is a massive understatement

Which messages?
If they are leaked can you share?

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

How could you know whether players were following instructions?

Because Ryan Yates spent 90 minutes for 7 games dropping in behind the centre backs and attempting to be the playmaker for the side. Either he's being told to do that, or if he isn't he needed to be told to stop.

Same with Mighten, constantly cutting inside and finding a low risk pass.

You know this because plenty of posters called it out. The reality is nothing to do with the quality or desire of the players. Hughton decided to try and make the players at his disposal fit his system. It didn't work and he lost his job and his reputation because he refused to budge. Cooper as well as injecting a bit of belief and confidence has seemingly decided to play to adapt to the players strengths and weaknesses. No longer is Yates a deep lying playmaker, he can go box to box. No longer is Mighten endlessly cutting inside for a safe pass, he's now allowed to buy the byline.

Don't get the need to defend Hughton. His record speaks for itself without needing Cooper's to compound it. You'd get more joy defending Goebbels.

 

[eugenboppboppbopp]

The Hoots tenure was dead in the water when he didn’t make a change when Bournemouth went down to 10 men on 60 minutes.

Hoots himself, in his post match, said he was concerned about getting caught on the break.

We we 1-2 down. At home. Mind boggling shit management. And Bournemouth had half their starting 11 injured.

This isn’t a case of players downing tools, it’s a case of a manger who had lost the plot


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[Strummer]

Don't get the need to defend Hughton. His record speaks for itself without needing Cooper's to compound it. You'd get more joy defending Goebbels.

 

[BryanRoy22]

I really don't understand people getting offended on behalf of Hughton.

The guy was sending us down. Yes, he had a tremendous record prior to joining us. Yes, he's always been a reserved gentleman who's carried himself with dignity.

But really? Is that greater than what he was doing to our beloved football club, on and off the field? That might sound harsh, but it simply wasn't working and he was too stubborn to change anything. The players weren't responding to him. His tactics became more negative as time went on.

What are we trying to defend? An ironic last line, you might say....

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Which messages?
If they are leaked can you share?

Google "lyle taylor whatsapp messages" and the first link should be to a reddit article with a screenshot

I would post the link directly but I don't want to contravene any forum rules

 

[Strummer]

Google "lyle taylor whatsapp messages" and the first link should be to a reddit article with a screenshot

I would post the link directly but I don't want to contravene any forum rules

 

[Notcher]

Here's a sliding doors moment and one we owe a lot to Steven Reid for. I wonder if Reid hadn't played the new system against Huddersfield for Cooper to see it's potential whether he would adopted it going forward?

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[Mr. Blonde]

Alrighty...

https://www.reddit.com/r/nffc/comments/p9g4e7/thoughts_on_these_alleged_real_leaked_messages/

 

[BryanRoy22]

Here's a sliding doors moment and one we owe a lot to Steven Reid for. I wonder if Reid hadn't played the new system against Huddersfield for Cooper to see it's potential whether he would adopted it going forward?

I think we've got a great blend in our backroom staff right now, and that's just me looking at it from the outside.

Cooper, Stephen Reid, Andy Reid, Alan Tate.

All are quite young and enthusiastic in coaching terms, have a great passion for football and seem like really good characters. It's no surprise we're seeing the players respond to it all.

Not forgetting Dane Murphy, who's also young and forward thinking in his approach.

Then you add Gary Brazil's experience of this club and how the young players know him and feel comfortable with him. Everything just feels spot on.

 

[Battered Sausage]

The Hoots tenure was dead in the water when he didn’t make a change when Bournemouth went down to 10 men on 60 minutes.

Hoots himself, in his post match, said he was concerned about getting caught on the break.

We we 1-2 down. At home. Mind boggling shit management. And Bournemouth had half their starting 11 injured.

This isn’t a case of players downing tools, it’s a case of a manger who had lost the plot


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In defence of Hughton


The first thing bournemouth did after they went down to ten men was to break, attack and score.

Offside, but the point is valid.


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