Does anyone remember League 1 Derby County? (STILL the worst team in history!)

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

View attachment 14198

Genius

 

[Rzar]

Ded yet?

Nearly, the arms and legs have fallen off but they are still breathing

Only one thing left to do now.

 

[Senior Flange Technician]

(Still can't quote but in reply to Hustler) Notts are playing Leicester behind closed doors, so obviously have better plans in place than Derby.

Also, I see our Supporters Trust are still trying to be relevant/speak for everyone.

Existential threat transcends nothing, we're going to have a party, when Derby County die.

 

[valspoodle]

Thank Harvey
You make it sound easy, I always arse it up when I try but you nailed it


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So true.

This tech stuff these days; the experts always make it sound easy, but duffers like me, no matter how well it's explained, always seem to cock it up and I follow all the rules and tips to the letter.

 

[virgo]

According to the Derby Fans Forum :-

 

[valspoodle]

Last night on EMT it was explained that Andy Appleby's offer was £25m for the club, £20m for the ground and £5m for something else (I've forgotten).

But still no mention of all the other debts. I thought they had to at least try to settle those due to that CVA thingy.

I'm so confused because people keep trying to simplify the whole thing, which actually seems still very complicated.

 

[incident]

Last night on EMT it was explained that Andy Appleby's offer was £25m for the club, £20m for the ground and £5m for something else (I've forgotten).

But still no mention of all the other debts. I thought they had to at least try to settle those due to that CVA thingy.

I'm so confused because people keep trying to simplify the whole thing, which actually seems still very complicated.

I believe that the "20m for the ground" refers to the MSD loans that are secured against the ground and academy site, and then the "25m for the club" would be expected to cover all of the other debts including football creditors and administrators costs which need to be paid in full. In that scenario HMRC becomes the determining factor - if HMRC accept 25p in the pound then Derby can survive, but if they insist on any more than that Derby are dead.

The 5m was for ongoing costs - so basically putting enough in the bank that the league can be confident they can complete the season.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

There is a slight difference in that Bury didn’t enter into Admin they just ran out of money and they didn’t even start the season.

Derby did start the season and then entered admin so is was within the EFL’s interest to allow the club to finish the season to maintain the competitions integrity.

Saying that however I would be surprised if they let them start next season in this state with no owner or Financial backer and their fixtures will be “suspended” like Bury’s were for a few weeks.


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I read a report somewhere a while back that Bury at the time were a day or two having the money to keep them going or a potential buyer lined when 0they were expelled but the league wouldn't wait. Of course it might not have happened as it hasn't thus far with Derby.

I think they need to set a hard date for Derby now at which point their golden share would either be withdrawn, or suspended for a year (run the league with one club less) while they get themselves sorted. If it was suspended though they probably wouldn't survive, but should they they would start again in League two as if they had played and been relegated.

The years suspension might give them the chance to sort themselves out without the pressures of league, but on the flip side without the money that they would make from it. They would probably lose their players and most of the other staff, but could perhaps be in a position to rebuild without becoming a pheonix club in tier 9.

I don't see how there would be much if any sale value in this scenario though as there would be no money coming in, unless they could use the situation to exploit fans with special product offers that exploit the fans desperation for the club to rise again.

 

[Strummer]

Pretty much, with the amount of debt they have, Derby as an entity are basically worthless.

They have few assets, their ground and training facilities aren’t even owned by them and are mortgaged, and their remaining players aren’t worth much at all.

If the Appleby bid is to succeed, creditors are going to have to take a massive loss. HMRC, as above, is the biggie - the taxman may well want to stand his ground, as a deterrent to future clubs, because if he doesn’t, there was no point in him becoming a preferred creditor in the first place.

My guess is this deal will hinge on HMRC.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

Nearly, the arms and legs have fallen off but they are still breathing

Only one thing left to do now.

At first I was afraid... I was petrified

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[Mr RayReardon]

Pretty much, with the amount of debt they have, Derby as an entity are basically worthless.

They have few assets, their ground and training facilities aren’t even owned by them and are mortgaged, and their remaining players aren’t worth much at all.

If the Appleby bid is to succeed, creditors are going to have to take a massive loss. HMRC, as above, is the biggie - the taxman may well want to stand his ground, as a deterrent to future clubs, because if he doesn’t, there was no point in him becoming a preferred creditor in the first place.

My guess is this deal will hinge on HMRC.

If, for example, someone buys club and stadium for £30m, although, I've heard talks of £40-£50m (but they must be a lie). The following could happen?...

Mel clears most of the debt with MSD once he recovers money from the stadium sale. Derby now own the ground and some of the MSD debt is wiped off. The remaining £10m is split between the football creditors all getting 25% (is that the rule??..) leaving a few other large creditors and HMRC that could be re-structured over 3-5 years.

If my fag packet maths is correct that would make Derby workable. The next thing is to ensure their wage bill is significantly below their income... They'll need packed house every week and a squad of lower/non-league all on wages that'll be below the league's average.

Whatever the outcome, it'll be a grim few years for them

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[gamble]

I read a report somewhere a while back that Bury at the time were a day or two having the money to keep them going or a potential buyer lined when 0they were expelled but the league wouldn't wait. Of course it might not have happened as it hasn't thus far with Derby.

I think they need to set a hard date for Derby now at which point their golden share would either be withdrawn, or suspended for a year (run the league with one club less) while they get themselves sorted. If it was suspended though they probably wouldn't survive, but should they they would start again in League two as if they had played and been relegated.

The years suspension might give them the chance to sort themselves out without the pressures of league, but on the flip side without the money that they would make from it. They would probably lose their players and most of the other staff, but could perhaps be in a position to rebuild without becoming a pheonix club in tier 9.

I don't see how there would be much if any sale value in this scenario though as there would be no money coming in, unless they could use the situation to exploit fans with special product offers that exploit the fans desperation for the club to rise again.

The main difference with Bury is they didn't play any of their games, they got to around 6 league games in before they were expelled.

The EFL couldnt keep allowing them to cancel games constantly, ATM Derby haven't got close to that.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

The main difference with Bury is they didn't play any of their games, they got to around 6 league games in before they were expelled.

The EFL couldnt keep allowing them to cancel games constantly, ATM Derby haven't got close to that.

They haven't got very close to playing a game yet either.

Clearly defined objectives, hard deadlines and consequences should be set now to help focus the minds of all concerned.

 

[sammy the snake]

So a week has gone by since Kirshner's deal collapsed.

You'd think if there are others "waiting in the wings" for exactly this eventuality, they'd have their fair and final bids in within minutes.

A week. Nothing.

Literally lining up..

Pretty much, with the amount of debt they have, Derby as an entity are basically worthless.

They have few assets, their ground and training facilities aren’t even owned by them and are mortgaged, and their remaining players aren’t worth much at all.

If the Appleby bid is to succeed, creditors are going to have to take a massive loss. HMRC, as above, is the biggie - the taxman may well want to stand his ground, as a deterrent to future clubs, because if he doesn’t, there was no point in him becoming a preferred creditor in the first place.

My guess is this deal will hinge on HMRC.

This is it, and has always been the case once the real books are opened and cobwebs cleared. HMRC are going to hold the cards. IF they crack, then the door is wide open. Getting taxpayers to pay for footballers salaries and owners ego's will trigger huge political issues...because unsurprisingly not everyone is a football fan..

T

 

[gamble]

They haven't got very close to playing a game yet either.

Clearly defined objectives, hard deadlines and consequences should be set now to help focus the minds of all concerned.

This season no, but not because of them not having a buyer.

They will start to become a lot harsher the closer the season is to starting.

 

[Erik]

I suspect HMRC will want every single penny they are owed as a point of principle to set a precedence.

They may accept repayment terms but lets be honest, who is going to buy a League 1 club that has to pay the taxman £1m every month for the first three years?

That's before they take into account all the other debt.

Unless a complete imbecilic billionaire buys them they are f****d.

 

[Redruth Red]

Listening to Dylan's Masters Of War earlier. He coulda been singing about us and the sheep

I'll follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

I'm standing and waiting ...

 

[Rockabilly]

I suspect HMRC will want every single penny they are owed as a point of principle to set a precedence.

They may accept repayment terms but lets be honest, who is going to buy a League 1 club that has to pay the taxman £1m every month for the first three years?

That's before they take into account all the other debt.

Unless a complete imbecilic billionaire buys them they are f****d.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

They will start to become a lot harsher the closer the season is to starting.

But any penalties should be laid out now with dates of them being applied so all parties know them, especially the fans and Quantuma.

If Derby can't get this sorted soon they will be at least a season without any games as they probably couldn't even get a phoenix club up and running in time. Their only hope might be to take over an existing minor league club too and try and make them their phoenix.

 

[jamferg]

If, for example, someone buys club and stadium for £30m, although, I've heard talks of £40-£50m (but they must be a lie). The following could happen?...

Mel clears most of the debt with MSD once he recovers money from the stadium sale. Derby now own the ground and some of the MSD debt is wiped off. The remaining £10m is split between the football creditors all getting 25% (is that the rule??..) leaving a few other large creditors and HMRC that could be re-structured over 3-5 years.

If my fag packet maths is correct that would make Derby workable. The next thing is to ensure their wage bill is significantly below their income... They'll need packed house every week and a squad of lower/non-league all on wages that'll be below the league's average.

Whatever the outcome, it'll be a grim few years for them

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The only way they would pack the ground is with £10 tickets and mobile phone freebies which doesn't add to their income. The 'great footballing town' is a myth. They lost 10k on the crowds the moment they were doomed to relegation. Woonies salary alone would boost their wage bill beyond manageable levels.

 

[Strummer]

But any penalties should be laid out now with dates of them being applied so all parties know them, especially the fans and Quantuma.

If Derby can't get this sorted soon they will be at least a season without any games as they probably couldn't even get a phoenix club up and running in time. Their only hope might be to take over an existing minor league club too and try and make them their phoenix.

The „swallow a smaller club“ idea might work, but the problem is you need money for that, and Derby haven’t got a pot to piss in, and any proposed new backer isn’t going to see a return on that investment for years.

 

[Mr RayReardon]

The only way they would pack the ground is with £10 tickets and mobile phone freebies which doesn't add to their income. The 'great footballing town' is a myth. They lost 10k on the crowds the moment they were doomed to relegation. Woonies salary alone would boost their wage bill beyond manageable levels.

I agree, I don't think they're a ', big club' and I don't think they're the same bracket as us either. We've had 23 years out of the top flight and three seasons in League One. They've been, in that time, far more successful and have a 'new' stadium that probably adds 5-10k new fans.

I'm pretty sure a prospective buyer will be banking on 25k a game at £25 a ticket and income of £15m or so from match tickets... They'd need a revenue of £20m + to be able have a semi competitive wage bill and have the spare cashflow to meet debt repayments. Of course, we all know, that Rooney could get 11 dustbins to win that league

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[football post]

I agree, I don't think they're a ', big club' and I don't think they're the same bracket as us either. We've had 23 years out of the top flight and three seasons in League One. They've been, in that time, far more successful and have a 'new' stadium that probably adds 5-10k new fans.

I'm pretty sure a prospective buyer will be banking on 25k a game at £25 a ticket and income of £15m or so from match tickets... They'd need a revenue of £20m + to be able have a semi competitive wage bill and have the spare cashflow to meet debt repayments. Of course, we all know, that Rooney could get 11 dustbins to win that league

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That 25k at 25 quid a ticket might be doable early season but could soon drop if they aren't challenging.
Obviously they will be once they've sourced all these non league nuggets that will instantly gel and have the league wrapped up by Easter. .. Afternoon Crewton

 

[Mr RayReardon]

Morning Crewton. I woke up this morning thinking we really need a few new players.

That 25k at 25 quid a ticket might be doable early season but could soon drop if they aren't challenging.
Obviously they will be once they've sourced all these non league nuggets that will instantly gel and have the league wrapped up by Easter. .. Afternoon Crewton

Ha ha! It's almost as the laws of economics don't apply to Derby. People pay for what they perceive they'll derive utility/enjoyment from. Watching a 50 year old Malcolm Christie and a kid from Heanor get thumped 4-0 at home to Accrington Stanley isn't likely to generate the same demand the following week.



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[Rzar]

Even Curtis is dropping hints that he's off

Davies is out of contract and keen to continue playing, although he cannot see a way of extending his career at Derby. ‘I’d like to stay in the right circumstances,’ he says. ‘That’s my heart talking. My head says if something comes up at Championship level I’d be silly not to take it. I still have a hunger.’

Curtis Davies admits he would like to stay with 'massive club' Derby

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW BY MATT BARLOW: He is still following news bulletins for positive updates. Still praying Derby will find a saviour after Chris Kirchner's takeover bid collapsed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I thought he would stick around to take Rooney's job when he walks.