Why we didn't make the Play-offs

[Frank Clark’s Tash]

I have a novel concept which you should consider.

There were 23 other clubs all trying to win.

Ultimately 6 of them were better than us.

Simple as that really.

Wow. Insightful.

That explains what happened, but not why.

If we don't want to repeat the same mistakes again next season then we're going to need to learn why we imploded so spectacularly and ensure it doesn't happen again.

 

[thehockleyhustler]

'cos when the pressure is on we shake like a sh1tting greyhound. Have done for years. Different managers, different players, same outcome every time. Haven't a clue why or how to fix it.

And people have previously pointed the finger at the fans, certainly when we bottle it at home.

Can't use that excuse anymore as our record was worse when playing infront of an empty stadium.

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[Ravi]

And people have previously pointed the finger at the fans, certainly when we bottle it at home.

Can't use that excuse anymore as our record was worse when playing infront of an empty stadium.

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Good point.

 

[Barry]

We were lucky to finish top 10.

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[Haych]

We’re a team of fannies

 

[congo_red_49]

A butterfly flapped it’s wings in Japan.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Now listen up: this thread sets an exercise in analytical thinking and a number of responses appear to fail to reach the standard required of an NFFC Board member.
Not good enough for Nottingham Forest!

 

[Strummer]

Now listen up: this thread sets an exercise in analytical thinking and a number of responses appear to fail to reach the standard required of an NFFC Board member.
Not good enough for Nottingham Forest!

Spoken like an Accountant.

In simple terms; Forest bottled it when the pressure was on, and could not break down supposedly „lesser“ teams who came for a point (and more than often, got it, or more).

 

[MASE]

Game plan proved to be unsustainable, Covid played its part, but we were too reliant on width & individual quality going forward to form the offensive game plan. Central midfield needs to play a bigger role next season going forward on the counter. Dont buy the Silva criticisms though, I suspect like everyone else his brief was safety first.

January recruitment was gash, whoever thought those three signings were the push that was needed, should take a serious look at their contribution to this season. We had nowt left in the tank when it mattered.

Just the two reasons for me.

 

[congo_red_49]

Evangelos Marinakis placed a large bet on us not making the play-offs, when the odds were high, with a Singapore bookmaker.
Head coach and squad all under orders to lose the spot by all means necessary.
Olympiakos will now benefit from a large cash injection.

 

[stantonred]

Lots of reasons

No plan B
Too many points thrown away
Daft selections a few times
Lack of creativity
Poor recruitment
Strange substitutions
Stubbornly carrying on with Direkaby when Mighten was lucky to get 30 seconds
Got worked out: defend for your lives and hope Lolley can work a miracle as the only plan is too easy to negate
Having a player that is so key to how you plan to play(Sow)with pringles for knees and having nobody to cover
Watson, who did well most of the season, dropping so deep he was practically a centre half leaving the gap between defence and attack so big we ended up just lumping it long
Some really shocking refs and it didn’t balance out over the season as the old cliche goes
A clearly talented man manager in Sabri that couldn’t (or wouldn’t)get the best out of Carvalho
Poor set pieces at both ends
And more but TL; DR

 

[RedDogChris]

I disagree with the poster who said we'd have made top 6 if it wasn't for covoid. If anything it brought us time, teams were working us out before the break we lost 3-0 at home to Millwall in the last game ffs.

After the restart it was like the start of a new season and we had a few decent results to start but we were quickly figured out again. Ultimately we weren't a very good side who punched above our weight for the most part but teams found it easy to play against us and we were exhausted mentally and psychically by the Stoke game. We need better quality in the side and EM needs to back his manager properly now if we want genuine improvement.

 

[valspoodle]

We weren't good enough and I have re-appointed the manager to sort it all out.

I do hope he has a Plan B (all my friends tell me that's the answer) as Plan A wasn't good enough.

There, that's sorted. Now I have to go and buy a few ships from the poor buggers who went bust in the covid thing.

 

[Pugwash]

Poor match day threads

 

[Flaggers]

Mental fortitude in the last ten minutes of games.

Mental eightytude.

 

[ben_b]

An over reliance on Ben Watson who must have played every game of the season(and yes he did have a good season). His form dipped badly after lockdown and we didnt try any other way. Sow and Bostock started one game together which we won 3 nil.

Also think Lamouchi was a bit over confident at the end with the team against Barnsley.

But we learn and chin up for next season.

 

[Ricochet]

Underestimated Stoke and Barnsley. We were far too cocky thinking the job was done.

Brentford did in their last two games too,they must be gutted tonight.

 

[ForestTurner]

Brentford did in their last two games too,they must be gutted tonight.

Genuine question would you have been more gutted tonight if we’d lost the final than when we pooped it last game?


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[Bonalair]

Genuine question would you have been more gutted tonight if we’d lost the final than when we pooped it last game?


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No.

 

[HBB]

Now listen up: this thread sets an exercise in analytical thinking and a number of responses appear to fail to reach the standard required of an NFFC Board member.
Not good enough for Nottingham Forest!

Ok Sinister you wanted some considered analysis well here's my two penneth worth.

If you look at how Lamouchi got us to where we were
1) Lamouchi prefers a 4-2-3-1 line-up with Ribiero and Cash as full-backs Joe Worrall and Figueiredo at centre-back. Ben Watson playing the pivot role in a pretty defensive midfield with Lolley as the central attacking midfielder, Sammy Ameobi and Diakhaby at right and left wing respectively with Grabban as the lone striker.

2) His alternative is 4-1-4-1, with the same defence, the wingers come in a bit to play more as wide midfielders. Grabban alone again but in midfield Watson is the lone holding midfielder with Silva and Yates a bit more advanced to get the ball up to Grabban.

Defence
SL likes a defence with a low block making it hard for opponents to find pockets of attacking space. The midfield drop back in front of the back four and Watson then moves to support the defensive midfield on the side being probed. That should make it hard for the opposition to pass forward and when they are pressured and they lose the ball the Forest midfield and wingers are ready to counter-attack along with the striker.

I'd argue it's negative, passive and overly rigid when done badly but we did have one of the best defensive records in the division. However its also risky and susceptible if the opposition either a) have creative players who can pick passes with well-timed runs by strikers and wingers b) bypass the midfield with high balls into a strong central attacker, supported by on-rushing opposition support players.

We finished fifth in the defensive tables - take out the really poor thrashings by Sheffield Wednesday, Stoke and Millwall and we'd be rightly regarded as one of the soundest in the league but its a system that ultimately invites the opposition to come on to us and I would argue that's a huge weakness when coupled with our low yield attacking set-up.

Attacking
Forest were at best mid-table for attacking stats and relied massively on the counter attack, preferring to concede possession in our own half and then exploit the opposition’s space on the counter. Looking at the overall stats for the season we have some of the lowest possession figures per game but we do take around 12-14 shots per game, though most are outside the box and the conversion rate is low. We also lose alot of possession in the same top quarter of the field.

This looks to be because in the main Lamouchi's system is focussed in a very specific type of attack creating chances for a lone striker. It's great that Grabban has repaid the faith placed in him, but the problem is that few others have weighed in with that many goals - Lolley and laterly Ameobi to a certain extent, but nothing like the kind of scoring that the top teams like Brentford, Leeds etc get from the rest of the team. Looking at Brentford for instance they have three players in the top 10 divisional goalscorers this season. So great that Grabban has got so many goals but its a system that's built to give him chances and actually limits the opportunities for others and if Grabban's not on form and especially if the defence fails we're always up against it because we're not going to score many.

That's expecially dangerous because if we're not counter attacking and we look to build from the back we throw a lot of men forward to create space. Against teams that don't use the low block there's usually enough space for the wingers or wing-backs but it means our players have to have lots of stamina, having been deep in defence to then run up to attack. They wil get tired so if you look at how many late and sloppy goals we've conceded you can make a case for explaining why its happened, tired players, teams allowed to come on to us etc.

We used the wings well at times but I'd argue it only really worked well on the right and only when Ameobi and Cash were in harness together. When we had the right people we could go down the right-wing with the midfield playing long balls to that side ideally with a man in space who can hold the ball and pass it around until space opened up in the final third. Ameobi tended to play as a wide target man, holding the ball until Cash arrives and when he does Ameobi drifts in centrally and acts as a goalscoring option. But crucially without the industry of Cash this route dries up.

The full-backs are crucial to Lamouchi's system and neeed to play with a high work rate. Defensively their jobs are to ensure there are no opposition runs on the wings and to cover any balls coming their way. When it works it helps to create the chance to counter-attack. When countering both full-backs are expected to create overlaps and provide extra men in attack to play crosses to Grabban or Ameobi who as I've said is freed up to drift centrally when Cash is up. Cash and Ribeiro’s runs help stretch the opposition defence and create space for the midfielders and wingers to make runs and remain open.

Those are the main ways we attacked this season but what's missing from most of us is the midfield. Our current crop weren't offensively focussed most of the time, Sow and Watson are both defensive, Sow in the destroyer role with Lolley as our best option as a creative midfielder, which I'd argue he's not. At least in the way most seem to want. There's no midfielder general a Roy Keane-esque figure or a driving Hodge style midfield. Yates you could say has the engine which Lamouchi clearly likes but he doesn't have the nous or the vision, at best he's an energetic runner to get the ball up to Grabban on the counter and get back quick, but does he create, no. Silva - hard to say what his role is. Like many of the Portuguese players he has skill and close control but that isn't what Lamouchi is looking for in that position - bit of a curate's egg I'd say.

So why didn't we make the playoffs?
All in all I think it's a system that works ok if a) your first choice players are all fit and healthy b) the opposition can't work through the heavy rigid defence c) your lone striker is on-fire all season. But if the first choice are injured then our bench doesn't have players who can do what the first choice players can do and Lamouchi hasn't drilled the squad in who to change formations that use different players like a Bostock or more especially a Carvalho. Walker will never get a chance while Grabban is fit for the single striker spot.

The system could have got us there but a) we didn't stay fit and healthy - losing Cash and Lolley for those games after the restart meant the system disintegrated b) teams figured out that they could score by either playing neat passing football through the middle of the park and avoiding the full backs and stopping the counter attack (Millwall 3-0) or punting over the low block into big strikers and coming on to us at pace (Sheff Wednesday especially).

 

[Mr RayReardon]

We were lucky to finish top 10.

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Take Lolley out of that team and it is bottom half

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[congo_red_49]

If you look at how Lamouchi got us to where we were
1) Lamouchi prefers a 4-2-3-1 line-up with Ribiero and Cash as full-backs Joe Worrall and Figueiredo at centre-back. Ben Watson playing the pivot role in a pretty defensive midfield with Lolley as the central attacking midfielder, Sammy Ameobi and Diakhaby at right and left wing respectively with Grabban as the lone striker.

Lolley played what, one game as the central attacking midfielder, all season? So, how was that Lamouchi’s preferred option?

 

[Ricochet]

Genuine question would you have been more gutted tonight if we’d lost the final than when we pooped it last game?


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Brentford have blown top 2 and the play offs,for me personally losing in the play offs is worse than not getting there at all.It's the hope that kills you.

 

[Mr Jester]

Relied too heavily on too few players.

Sugar coated our failings, and pretended they didn't exist.

Expected fringe players who have never done anything remotely significant at any real level to miraculously become promotion winners.

 

[valspoodle]

Brentford have blown top 2 and the play offs,for me personally losing in the play offs is worse than not getting there at all.It's the hope that kills you.

I was pondering that very question this morning whilst taking my exercise walk (the knees can't take running).

And I came to the conclusion they must be far more depressed.

Our top hope was to make the playoffs and then to proceed to the Premier League.

Brentford were hoping for automatic promotion; they failed. Then they were hoping to win the playoffs; they failed. Two devastating blows in quick succession.

Makes our implosion look rather feeble.