Keinan Vincent Joseph Davis

[DizzyBala]

This is one where we'll need to be really sensible about the price as he's not an essential position to be filled, he'd be a replacement for Grabbs essentially. I think £10m is the maximum and even that's being a little generous, because we're basing this off of a half season in the Championship.

I love the guy but we're going to have to play this one with our heads, not our hearts.

 

[youreds1986]

I don't think you are in the minority, many admired him and his physical style. The problem is the goals. He did OK for us, but probably scored under par in the goals column given, as you say his physical dominance in games. Add to that his Villa scoring record is terrible and you have the possibility even probability of another "non goal scoring" number 9-particularly against prem level defenders. Whilst we can obviously make use of his talents, the lack of goals seriously affects his value IMO. If there had been a period in his career where he'd notched with regularity it might be different but as is I think 8M is generous...

Pretty much sums up where I am.

Love him. But his lack of goals, even at Champ level, is a worry and how much is he going to improve now given he will turn 25 this season. If he was 5m then I'd be all over it. But there should be better options at 10m plus IMO.

 

[cheapseats]

Pretty much sums up where I am.

Love him. But his lack of goals, even at Champ level, is a worry and how much is he going to improve now given he will turn 25 this season. If he was 5m then I'd be all over it. But there should be better options at 10m plus IMO.

Honestly, my concern is 90% that the kid gets a chance somewhere. Realistically a whole season at a champ club is probably what he needs. I’d take him as a squad player but not sure that’s what he needs…

 

[lavelleuk]

I'm surprised anyone who watched him for us last season would worry about us having him back. Best player we've had since Antonio at making things happen from nothing. We're going to need that next season big time, each game will be a massive fight. If he can get the ball 50 yards out against your Leeds or Palace's and get us towards their box then anything can happen.

Premier league isn't about strikers scoring 15-20 goals a season, it's about people who can do anything to turn a scrappy 0-0 into a scrappy 1-0, Davis has the ability to make things happen, even if he doesn't get the goal and it's Yates poking it in or Johnson arriving at back post etc.

or to sum up that rambling - GET HIM IN!

 

[Erik]

Stats don't lie.

Look at what the Villa fan told us and then marry it up with what we saw.

When Keinan Davies plays there is an increased goal threat, his teams score when he plays and they often win.

How many he scores in that is secondary. Teams score and win when he plays.

 

[cheapseats]

Stats don't lie.

Look at what the Villa fan told us and then marry it up with what we saw.

When Keinan Davies plays there is an increased goal threat, his teams score when he plays and they often win.

How many he scores in that is secondary. Teams score and win when he plays.

Perfectly reasonable point apart from the one about it not mattering how many he scores.
Strikers who don’t score are like porn stars with the clap, no use. And remember we’ve been there before, many many times, I could list 20 that were supposedly good at other things but couldn’t hit the onion bag and most of them you wouldn't even remember now

 

[lavelleuk]

Perfectly reasonable point apart from the one about it not mattering how many he scores.
Strikers who don’t score are like porn stars with the clap, no use. And remember we’ve been there before, many many times, I could list 20 that were supposedly good at other things but couldn’t hit the onion bag and most of them you wouldn't even remember now

Maybe you don't remember them, but if we score 20 goals with him in the team but 15 without him, and a single striker scored those 15 goals, I wouldn't want that other striker playing ahead of him. There is so much more to strikers these days than just scoring goals, it's why guys like Salah and Johnson are still classed as wingers whilst actually being the clubs main goal scoring threat.

So it's easy enough to say it doesn't matter how much a striker scores, but I can guarantee guys like Cooper and Dane look at more than just a wiki page saying a striker scored x amount of goals in x amount of games.

People may not remember those strikers, but I bet there's a lot of great teams people remember who had a striker like that. I'd much rather remember this season as one where we stayed up, rather than one where we went down but I saw a striker score 15+ premier league goals.

Giroud for France probably the most famous recent example, but guys like Eric Cantona would be criticised simply on goals scored (14 in 30, 11 in 36 for best team in the country), Beardsley 10, 10 and 11 for one of the best Liverpool sides ever, Zola only hit double figures twice for Chelsea, with such seasons as 4 in 33 games and 3 in 35 games, Bergkamp didn't hit double figures in the league in any of his last 7 seasons for Arsenal, again including seasons where he only scored 4 league goals (twice), 3 in 25 and 2 in 24

But those guys all made stuff happen, even if it wasn't them getting the goal or the assist

So, Davis....GERRIM IN!

 

[cheapseats]

Maybe you don't remember them, but if we score 20 goals with him in the team but 15 without him, and a single striker scored those 15 goals, I wouldn't want that other striker playing ahead of him. There is so much more to strikers these days than just scoring goals, it's why guys like Salah and Johnson are still classed as wingers whilst actually being the clubs main goal scoring threat.

So it's easy enough to say it doesn't matter how much a striker scores, but I can guarantee guys like Cooper and Dane look at more than just a wiki page saying a striker scored x amount of goals in x amount of games.

People may not remember those strikers, but I bet there's a lot of great teams people remember who had a striker like that. I'd much rather remember this season as one where we stayed up, rather than one where we went down but I saw a striker score 15+ premier league goals.

Giroud for France probably the most famous recent example, but guys like Eric Cantona would be criticised simply on goals scored (14 in 30, 11 in 36 for best team in the country), Beardsley 10, 10 and 11 for one of the best Liverpool sides ever, Zola only hit double figures twice for Chelsea, with such seasons as 4 in 33 games and 3 in 35 games, Bergkamp didn't hit double figures in the league in any of his last 7 seasons for Arsenal, again including seasons where he only scored 4 league goals (twice), 3 in 25 and 2 in 24

But those guys all made stuff happen, even if it wasn't them getting the goal or the assist

So, Davis....GERRIM IN!

Well argued-heard the "making goals for the team" position many times....but there are other ways of looking at it and they are that it puts pressure on others to score if he isn't, and if positionally and in terms of hold and link play if a player like this is so good then he must be getting into scoring positions ergo chances are not being converted which in itself is not a good thing.

All I would say is wouldn't you choose a number 9 who scored 5 goals over one who scored 25 and whilst I think Davies has something to offer and would have him in the squad if the price was right, my view is that he will be less effective in the prem against better more savvy defenders so his value to us is limited by that and it must be reflected in the price.

Final point-at least 2 of the examples you quoted (Beardsley and Cantona) weren't really number 9's. I would say they were more akin to a Brennan or a playmaking 10 and of course Beardsley had the archetypal effective number 9 alongside him in Shearer who despite being a cockwomble never had any problem sticking the ball in the net.

 

[Erik]

Perfectly reasonable point apart from the one about it not mattering how many he scores.
Strikers who don’t score are like porn stars with the clap, no use. And remember we’ve been there before, many many times, I could list 20 that were supposedly good at other things but couldn’t hit the onion bag and most of them you wouldn't even remember now

If he plays 40 games and we win 20 of them then I don't give a flying **** if he scores 1 or 20 goals. It doesn't matter how many he scores, as long as he is a part of a team that keeps winning.

It's all about the team. Steve Cooper spent all last season drumming that into everyone and Davies, with, or without goals, clearly adds to the sum of the team based on statistics at both Forest and Villa.

If he was a 20 goal a season striker we wouldn't have been able to get him on loan last year let alone buy him this. He isn't, but he brings other things that add to the value of those around him.

 

[Haych]

For 8-10M I would sign him up.

He may not be our top goal scorer but I would put money on us as a team scoring more goals if he’s on the pitch.

His pace and strength will create more space for the likes of Johnson and Awonyi to score the goals.

 

[Kidwelly Red]

It’s all well and good wanting to sign Davis at the right price, but the question is where do you fit him in?

He’s not going to start ahead of Tai or Johnson and assuming we sign MGW or equivalent talent, I can’t see him starting many games. Great impact sub though

 

[sammy the snake]

Loads of good points here.
I'll add my obvious point...we've actually seen him play already and a know quantity, he'll pick up where he left off. That's a huge positive.

8 10 million is a serious amount of money though...but it's not about what's he's actually valued at..that would 3 or 4 million? It's about what he's worth to Forest right now. I don't see any point in him going on loan again...the fella has found a home and proved his worth to a prem league team. Villa would be doing a disservice to him. Also these two clubs have a very good relationship, that should get a deal done.

 

[lavelleuk]

Well argued-heard the "making goals for the team" position many times....but there are other ways of looking at it and they are that it puts pressure on others to score if he isn't, and if positionally and in terms of hold and link play if a player like this is so good then he must be getting into scoring positions ergo chances are not being converted which in itself is not a good thing.

All I would say is wouldn't you choose a number 9 who scored 5 goals over one who scored 25 and whilst I think Davies has something to offer and would have him in the squad if the price was right, my view is that he will be less effective in the prem against better more savvy defenders so his value to us is limited by that and it must be reflected in the price.

Final point-at least 2 of the examples you quoted (Beardsley and Cantona) weren't really number 9's. I would say they were more akin to a Brennan or a playmaking 10 and of course Beardsley had the archetypal effective number 9 alongside him in Shearer who despite being a cockwomble never had any problem sticking the ball in the net.

You know I nearly said they weren't traditional forwards lol but tbh that's what I tried to get across with my Salah/Johnson point. Davis was at his best last season at times back to goal 40-50 yards out, which isn't a traditional striker role either in the 90s sense. Using Liverpool as a modern example, Firminho was often the "traditional" number 9, but Mane and Salah were the much bigger goal threats

Plus with Davis, ok you don't know how he'll step up in the premier league as a regular, but we saw last year how he draws a couple of players to him, giving space to out other attacking players

Kidwelly Red - still not got used to the multiquote thing, but you say he won't start ahead of Awoniyi, but how do we know that? MUCH better and much more proven strikers have failed in the premier league in the past, Shevchenko, Haller, Marlet, rebrov, hell people forget this stuff now but Drogba had an awful first season. Middlesbrough spent big money on two foreign strikers, I forget there names, Alonso maybe? And something like Macaroni lol​

Any player coming to England is an unknown quantity. But Davis showed enough last season that at the very least he is worth a punt.

 

[Kidwelly Red]

You know I nearly said they weren't traditional forwards lol but tbh that's what I tried to get across with my Salah/Johnson point. Davis was at his best last season at times back to goal 40-50 yards out, which isn't a traditional striker role either in the 90s sense. Using Liverpool as a modern example, Firminho was often the "traditional" number 9, but Mane and Salah were the much bigger goal threats

Plus with Davis, ok you don't know how he'll step up in the premier league as a regular, but we saw last year how he draws a couple of players to him, giving space to out other attacking players

Kidwelly Red - still not got used to the multiquote thing, but you say he won't start ahead of Awoniyi, but how do we know that? MUCH better and much more proven strikers have failed in the premier league in the past, Shevchenko, Haller, Marlet, rebrov, hell people forget this stuff now but Drogba had an awful first season. Middlesbrough spent big money on two foreign strikers, I forget there names, Alonso maybe? And something like Macaroni lol​

Any player coming to England is an unknown quantity. But Davis showed enough last season that at the very least he is worth a punt.

We don’t know, and Tai could flop as you say. It just seems unlikely that our record signing wouldnt start ahead of Davis who we’ve seemingly chosen not buy already at a lesser price than Awoniyi, even though he played for us last season and is already familiar to Cooper.

 

[cheapseats]

You know I nearly said they weren't traditional forwards lol but tbh that's what I tried to get across with my Salah/Johnson point. Davis was at his best last season at times back to goal 40-50 yards out, which isn't a traditional striker role either in the 90s sense. Using Liverpool as a modern example, Firminho was often the "traditional" number 9, but Mane and Salah were the much bigger goal threats

Plus with Davis, ok you don't know how he'll step up in the premier league as a regular, but we saw last year how he draws a couple of players to him, giving space to out other attacking players

Kidwelly Red - still not got used to the multiquote thing, but you say he won't start ahead of Awoniyi, but how do we know that? MUCH better and much more proven strikers have failed in the premier league in the past, Shevchenko, Haller, Marlet, rebrov, hell people forget this stuff now but Drogba had an awful first season. Middlesbrough spent big money on two foreign strikers, I forget there names, Alonso maybe? And something like Macaroni lol​

Any player coming to England is an unknown quantity. But Davis showed enough last season that at the very least he is worth a punt.

Lavelle-I'd have him back for sure but not at a crazy price. And I think he would struggle to get into the starting 11 so he would be released (like the gimp) on a tiring and unsuspecting prem defence with 10 mins to go....
All it needs is Villa to stop acting the goat and led the lad go...

 

[Omar Devone Little]

Just highlights the distorted market in this country, Awoniyi cost £17m after finishing 5th in the scorers chart in Germany, Davis apparently costs £15m after half a good season in the Championship and with what is, quite frankly, an abysmal goalscoring record for a striker. If my maths are correct Ryan Yates has a better career goalscoring record than Davis.

Davis has lots of good qualities which would come in handy but there's no way a player with his record both in front of goal and on the treatment table is worth that.

 

[incapable hulk]

We do need back up. Last season as we were heading towards the play offs, there was a point where injuries were stacking up and we were worried about the possibility of having no available strikers available. At the moment we have only have Surridge, Awoniyi and Taylor - with most of the opinion that Taylor will be leaving.

I hope we do sign Davis as he was excellent for us and there was clearly even more potential there. We get extra subs now too so having another option off the bench is great. Hopefully the club can sort out a lower fee and bring him back but even if they don't they badly need to bring another striker in.

 

[Rockabilly]

We do need back up. Last season as we were heading towards the play offs, there was a point where injuries were stacking up and we were worried about the possibility of having no available strikers available. At the moment we have only have Surridge, Awoniyi and Taylor - with most of the opinion that Taylor will be leaving.

I hope we do sign Davis as he was excellent for us and there was clearly even more potential there. We get extra subs now too so having another option off the bench is great. Hopefully the club can sort out a lower fee and bring him back but even if they don't they badly need to bring another striker in.

Yep, I agree Hulk.

 

[Rzar]

We do need back up. Last season as we were heading towards the play offs, there was a point where injuries were stacking up and we were worried about the possibility of having no available strikers available. At the moment we have only have Surridge, Awoniyi and Taylor - with most of the opinion that Taylor will be leaving.

I hope we do sign Davis as he was excellent for us and there was clearly even more potential there. We get extra subs now too so having another option off the bench is great. Hopefully the club can sort out a lower fee and bring him back but even if they don't they badly need to bring another striker in.

We will need the option to bring at least 2 strikers off the bench every game.

Taylor was crap in the Championship, he will be even worse in the Prem. He can't be counted.

Surridge will do well, he is good enough.

But Davis is a must for me. Both he & Surridge have proven themselves as specialists coming off the bench.

 

[GOBIAS]

We will need the option to bring at least 2 strikers off the bench every game.

Taylor was crap in the Championship, he will be even worse in the Prem. He can't be counted.

Surridge will do well, he is good enough.

But Davis is a must for me. Both he & Surridge have proven themselves as specialists coming off the bench.

As discussed previously the options off the bench need to be good and offer different things. If Awoniyi gets injured we have to have options so we are not getting totally derailed.

Also Keinan can play deeper, wider if required. Imagine bringing him on chasing a game and having the movement, pace, strength of him and Awoniyi combined with Johnson. Would certainly give opposition defences something to think about.

 

[Sal]

Based on nothing beyond my own guesswork, Iol, I still think we'll get him late for 7-8million transfer. Unless we sign another striker in the meanwhile. He may not offer Villa much , but I think he's a good, useful option for us. And I'm sure he'd rather play a bench role for Cooper at PL level than another Championship loan year.

 

[Rzar]

Based on nothing beyond my own guesswork, Iol, I still think we'll get him late for 7-8million transfer. Unless we sign another striker in the meanwhile. He may not offer Villa much , but I think he's a good, useful option for us. And I'm sure he'd rather play a bench role for Cooper at PL level than another Championship loan year.

Think you are right.

There is no rush with Keinan, there is limited interest from elsewhere and he wouldn’t need any time to get used to the way we play.

We can just wait until a good price comes up.

 

[eyupmeduck]

I'd like to sign Keinan, I have no illusions that he's a 30 goal a season man but he's bloody useful and so good at linking up and causing panic for the opposition, you could see him absolutely batter the Arsenal defence for example.

I imagine it will be late, I would also like the added bonus if it meant we scuppered Sheffield United getting him on loan at the last minute due to them becoming pricks of the highest order.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Caveman Ninja]

I'd like to sign Keinan, I have no illusions that he's a 30 goal a season man but he's bloody useful and so good at linking up and causing panic for the opposition, you could see him absolutely batter the Arsenal defence for example.

I imagine it will be late, I would also like the added bonus if it meant we scuppered Sheffield United getting him on loan at the last minute due to them becoming pricks of the highest order.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

They have always been pricks of the highest order

 

[cheapseats]

Heres a question-if theoretically you could sign Davis or Grabban of 3 years ago (for the same money) which would you take?.
I ask because I completely agree that we need at least 1 more striker, but I'm not convinced that it needs to be (or even should be) Davies. Don't get me wrong I like his physical attributes but I am concerned about fitness and goals...