How much to exit the embargo?

[andover red]

With our young crop now is the time to do it, as we already have players which can step up and help fill voids. Yes we willbe weaker, no we won't be as weak as to be relegated.

If Dougie can keep landing signingslike Mills & Ward overcoming years whilst we do it to we'll be sound.

We don't always agree but in this case we do. Agree absolutely 100% with this.

 

[Harry1982]

With our young crop now is the time to do it, as we already have players which can step up and help fill voids. Yes we willbe weaker, no we won't be as weak as to be relegated.

If Dougie can keep landing signingslike Mills & Ward overcoming years whilst we do it to we'll be sound.

Sell lansbury if we get Barton and let Antonio go as well. We are not going up. Blood the youngster this season and a couple of new signings in the summer, with assambalonga fit and the youngster ready for the league we should be ready for realistic push for the title. In all fairness Antonio deserves his shot at the prem,got a feeling lansbury pulled out a couple of good performances to get a move. Let them go.

 

[Rzar]

Does anybody think the idea of a fixed term for an embargo is stupid? Would it not be wiser to operate it as a 'If you are within our loss margin, you are out of the embargo. If you are over the losses permitted, you are in an emabargo.' It discourages you from selling your most expensive assets because you cannot replace them.

How long will it take for a club to go from the Championship to League Two to realize that these football league rules are absolutely ridiculous? It will happen to somebody eventually.

Meanwhile, that newly promoted Championship club Bristol City are trying to spend £9m on a Championship striker, and we are to compete in the same market with no money and a £10k cap on the player. It's not productive.

It doesn't help you solve your financial problems, it punishes you for doing the exact same thing everybody else is doing in the f***ing league.

 

[magicwoand]

...
We can't do this until we get out of the embargo. Selling Antonio gets us out of the embargo. If we can get out the embargo we can sign another Antonio anyway.

The post above that said selling Antonio is short-termist doesn't realise he himself is the short-termist. Selling our stars isn't what we want to do, but it's pragmatic and enables to operate on a favourable platform in the future and reshape the club.

Sell sell sell.

I'm not sure I understand, we'll be out of the embargo in the summer anyway, how does selling Antonio now get us out of this instantly? We may as well have sold this summer then, which would have stopped us pissing around for scraps all close season.

 

[UndisclosedFee]

It doesn't help you solve your financial problems, it punishes you for doing the exact same thing everybody else is doing in the f***ing league.

But Dougie IS helping solve the financial problems. He has reduced the wage bill substantially. Selling players wouldn't solve the underlying problems anyway, at least in Antonio's case, as he is supposed to be on lower wages. The reason why Brizzle, Boro and Derby are all spending a lot of money is because this year's accounts have a lot more leeway as far as FFP is concerned. The only thing that is unfair about it is that WE are still effectively under the old rules, not the new ones, having broken the old ones.

 

[Alexandro Garibaldi]

Does anybody think the idea of a fixed term for an embargo is stupid? Would it not be wiser to operate it as a 'If you are within our loss margin, you are out of the embargo. If you are over the losses permitted, you are in an emabargo.'

This is exactly how it does work, as has been stated several times.

 

[Kelvin's Local]

With our young crop now is the time to do it, as we already have players which can step up and help fill voids. Yes we willbe weaker, no we won't be as weak as to be relegated.

If Dougie can keep landing signingslike Mills & Ward overcoming years whilst we do it to we'll be sound.

I agree with that, I was saying last night that we just need to ride this season out. Don't go down, learn some lessons and re-invest the Lansbury and Antonio money a little more wisely than before.

 

[Alexandro Garibaldi]

The only thing that is unfair about it is that WE are still effectively under the old rules, not the new ones, having broken the old ones.

If we were to submit early accounts to show that we are set to comply with regs for 2015/16, do we have to be within the £13m or £8m threshold, do you know?

 

[Dr Sheldon Cooper]

Sorry to sound daft, but then what?

Out of the embargo so we can tempt some journeyman in search of his 30k per week to sit on the bench for us?

This embargo is saving us from ourselves. I hope we can learn something from it!

Derby are taking over from us in that respect. Spend big, achieve nothing, regret at leisure

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I'm not sure I understand, we'll be out of the embargo in the summer anyway, how does selling Antonio now get us out of this instantly? We may as well have sold this summer then, which would have stopped us pissing around for scraps all close season.

I don't believe ditching Jamie Mackie is the difference between a £20m loss and an £8m one.

I think had we had better lawyers we might have avoided an embargo, but now we're in it we need to work really hard to get out of it. I just don't believe Dougie and Fawaz when they say we'll be out next season (unless they forgot to mention to fans that part of that would include key asset sales).

 

[justnotjase]

Back of the cigarette pack guesstimate on savings :

- Mackie - £35k a week = £1.8m a year saved + any bonuses.
- Collins - £15k a week = £780,000 a year saved
- Harding - £15k a week = £780,000 a year saved
- Abdoun - £30k a week = £1.5m a year saved.
- Majewski - £15k a week = £780,000 a year saved.
- No idea how much of Darlow and Lascelles wages we paid - lets say we save £1m a year there.

Total saved = £6.64m already and there is a few ive forgotten im sure.

New additions are on a max of £10k a week = £520,000 a year x 3 = £1.5m.

We have already saved £5m a year this summer.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Back of the cigarette pack guesstimate on savings :

- Mackie - £35k a week = £1.8m a year saved + any bonuses.
- Collins - £15k a week = £780,000 a year saved
- Harding - £15k a week = £780,000 a year saved
- Abdoun - £30k a week = £1.5m a year saved.
- Majewski - £15k a week = £780,000 a year saved.
- No idea how much of Darlow and Lascelles wages we paid - lets say we save £1m a year there.

Total saved = £6.64m already and there is a few ive forgotten im sure.

New additions are on a max of £10k a week = £520,000 a year x 3 = £1.5m.

We have already saved £5m a year this summer.

Ace, so about £8m still to go then?

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Also we paid off Abdoun's and Majewski's contracts, so that's not technically money saved.

 

[Kelvin's Local]

Ace, so about £8m still to go then?

And then we sell Lansbury and/or Antonio. We could make a real case for exiting it now, or at least in January.

 

[magicwoand]

I don't believe ditching Jamie Mackie is the difference between a £20m loss and an £8m one.

I think had we had better lawyers we might have avoided an embargo, but now we're in it we need to work really hard to get out of it. I just don't believe Dougie and Fawaz when they say we'll be out next season (unless they forgot to mention to fans that part of that would include key asset sales).

But the embargo isn't based on cumulative loses is it? It's year end to year end. So if we over spent by £20M one year then only £4M then next we would be out of it. The wages are the biggest issue in this case.

 

[bgd]

And then we sell Lansbury and/or Antonio. We could make a real case for exiting it now, or at least in January.

Can you actually exit it mid-season? For some reason I was under the impression it was evaluated every 12 months. I.E when a club announces their yearly accounts.

To be honest, the best thing for this club is to be under an embargo. I'd rather we were under it for about 3 years so we can clear all the stupidly big earners, develop our youngsters and rely on loans and clever free signings.

Granted, it would be nice if we could make small intelligent purchases, such as Daniel Bentley type players from Southend. But i'm fed up of seeing us sign over-rated past it players on ridiculous money.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

And then we sell Lansbury and/or Antonio. We could make a real case for exiting it now, or at least in January.

Which is my point, I don't think we can exit the embargo with our current wage bill, even after easing it, without selling MA.

We either sell MA now and are free to operate in summer, or we wait another 2-3 years when our squad will be threadbare and have loans and youth players from our academy only.

 

[Alexandro Garibaldi]

But the embargo isn't based on cumulative loses is it? It's year end to year end. So if we over spent by £20M one year then only £4M then next we would be out of it.

I think transfer fees are split over the course of a contract. So if Britt was signed for £5 million up front on a four year contract, that's an expense of £1.25 for each of those years, rather than just £5m on the 2014/15 books.

I'm still not sure if outgoing transfers work the same way, though, but it would piss on the chips of anyone thinking we can sell Antonio and instantly clear the losses if they did.

 

[UndisclosedFee]

If we were to submit early accounts to show that we are set to comply with regs for 2015/16, do we have to be within the £13m or £8m threshold, do you know?

That was exactly the point I was making. The new rules don't come in until next summer. We are being punished under the old amounts, and Derby, Boro, Brizzle and a few others, are spending because they know they will pass the NEW rules when they come out. I MAY be wrong, I am not claiming to be an expert, but FFP is a subject that interests me, so I read every article that comes up on the subject. I do tend to remember facts fairly well. My comment about Derby, Boro and Brizzle was conjecture, based on their spending and the impending rule change.

I believe it is actually £15m a year next year, but only £39m over 3 seasons.

Actually, I just checked, and the football league website says this about our situation:-

Blackburn, Leeds and Forest all exceeded the maximum permitted deviation of £8m - consisting of a maximum adjusted operating loss of £3m plus a further maximum of £5m of shareholder investment - during the 2013/14 playing season. Each club will have the opportunity to have its FFP embargo lifted at the end of the season by demonstrating that it has stayed within the maximum permitted deviation of £6m (£3m operating loss plus £3m shareholder investment) for the 2014/15 season.
Read more at http://www.football-league.co.uk/ne...-submissions-2144136.aspx#UWI0pB7JlyYg4HWA.99

Attention Dougie!!! After the performances of De Vries in goal, please note that emergency loans of goalkeepers do not count towards the 24 man squad:-

Clubs under an FFP embargo will be permitted to sign a goalkeeper on an emergency basis (in line with existing regulations).
Read more at http://www.football-league.co.uk/ne...-submissions-2144136.aspx#UWI0pB7JlyYg4HWA.99

 

[gamble]

That was exactly the point I was making. The new rules don't come in until next summer. We are being punished under the old amounts, and Derby, Boro, Brizzle and a few others, are spending because they know they will pass the NEW rules when they come out. I MAY be wrong, I am not claiming to be an expert, but FFP is a subject that interests me, so I read every article that comes up on the subject. I do tend to remember facts fairly well. My comment about Derby, Boro and Brizzle was conjecture, based on their spending and the impending rule change.

I believe it is actually £15m a year next year, but only £39m over 3 seasons.

Actually, I just checked, and the football league website says this about our situation:-


Attention Dougie!!! After the performances of De Vries in goal, please note that emergency loans of goalkeepers do not count towards the 24 man squad:-

I wonder if he found that out hence the Hamer deal failing for no apparent reason?

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I think transfer fees are split over the course of a contract. So if Britt was signed for £5 million up front on a four year contract, that's an expense of £1.25 for each of those years, rather than just £5m on the 2014/15 books.

I'm still not sure if outgoing transfers work the same way, though, but it would piss on the chips of anyone thinking we can sell Antonio and instantly clear the losses if they did.

You can absolutely account for all the money in a sale scenario.

 

[bhastings316]

Who was in charge of the club when we voted to go along with these stupid rules?

 

[UndisclosedFee]

Who was in charge of the club when we voted to go along with these stupid rules?

The man who spunked a large amount of his fortune on "stellar" signings for us?

 

[magicwoand]

Who was in charge of the club when we voted to go along with these stupid rules?

The MA curse, he was playing the long game...

 

[bhastings316]

The MA curse, he was playing the long game...

Probably seemed like a good idea when ND was no longer bankrolling the club.