Hillsborough could forest fans have done more?

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

I think there is fairly compelling evidence to be found on the message boards that indeed Liverpool fans did turn up without tickets. Once the gates were opened, you are not telling me that they wouldn't have looked that particular gift horse in the mouth and merely stood about outside?

It depends on how many opportunities there were outside the ground to rob people really.

 

[Sabri Natenagewitch]

Thats just bought me out in goose bumps.

It reminded me of the utter filth that went to the game in the 80s

“They were famous, a wonderful team and we thought the fans would be like us, just crazy about football.”

Unfortunately I doubt many gave too much of a shit about football, the scum of any colour that was involved in hooliganism.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

thing with heysel if it was forest fans I very much doubt we would revel and wind up our neighbors over the fact it cost them the chance to play in Europe and result in there side all jumping ship to have the chance to play in europe.

how about when we did helicopter impressions to Chelsea fans just after Harding had died?

 

[RRRREDUN]

how about when we did helicopter impressions to Chelsea fans just after Harding had died?

Did WE? I fuckin' didn't. But I take your point; all clubs had a sizable minority of cretins in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Liverpool had a larger than most feral element amongst their 'fans'. Scum.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

70 years since over 60 million people were killed in WW2 for the freedom of the entire planet.

26 years since 96 scousers were killed by their own fans.

Both unfortunate, but when it comes to paying repects to the dead I know where my energy will be focussed, and which warrents remembering for so long.

 

[Dr Sheldon Cooper]

how about when we did helicopter impressions to Chelsea fans just after Harding had died?

how do you do a helicopter impression?

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

A more pertinent question is 'could Forest fans have done more at Heysel?'

 

[Senior Flange Technician]

how do you do a helicopter impression?

I've got a big chopper, but that's by the by

 

[valspoodle]

Interesting if rather semantic point, but every time the number of victims at Heysel is mentioned, they are just victims with no mention that 32 of the 39 were Italians.

Also interesting to note that a neutral fan spotted that some Liverpool fans had tickets with Brighton printed on which was crossed out and Brussels written in!

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Did WE? I fuckin' didn't. But I take your point; all clubs had a sizable minority of cretins in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Liverpool had a larger than most feral element amongst their 'fans'. Scum.

They did and I detest the f***ers (and I was there, it was my birthday and forever more the two are horribly linked) but there is some self-righteous bullshit on this thread. If anyone travelled regularly in the 80s and 90s they'd have seen we were as naughty as most. One reason the scousers were so mobbed up was because of the kickings we handed out the previous year.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

how do you do a helicopter impression?

Put your arms out and spin around and around. It's good fun honest.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

In all honesty, the only time I ever remember 'bunking in' at a Forest game was away at Peterborough during the promotion season. That was in the seated main stand.

It was a big culture with Man Utd and Liverpool in particular, Mancs called it jibbing. They travelled all over Europe with the motto 'to pay is to fail'. Whether it be transport or games.

 

[rogerthecat]

They did and I detest the f***ers (and I was there, it was my birthday and forever more the two are horribly linked) but there is some self-righteous bullshit on this thread. If anyone travelled regularly in the 80s and 90s they'd have seen we were as naughty as most. One reason the scousers were so mobbed up was because of the kickings we handed out the previous year.

Perhaps, but it wasn't compulsory. I only had one scuffle in 15 years of going home and away. That was at St Pancras after the 92 League Cup Final loss. We finished it but we didn't start it.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Perhaps, but it wasn't compulsory. I only had one scuffle in 15 years of going home and away. That was at St Pancras after the 92 League Cup Final loss. We finished it but we didn't start it.

you did well to avoid it just before and during half time....and no it wasn't compulsory but we're still hated in Boro after killing one of theirs and caused trouble up and down the country. My point is simply that the culture of football fans played a significant role in what happened that terrible day and those who died were just normal fans out to watch a game. Scousers aren't a homogeneous mass and proportionately we had just as many mischief makers.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

you did well to avoid it just before and during half time....and no it wasn't compulsory but we're still hated in Boro after killing one of theirs and caused trouble up and down the country. My point is simply that the culture of football fans played a significant role in what happened that terrible day and those who died were just normal fans out to watch a game. Scousers aren't a homogeneous mass and proportionately we had just as many mischief makers.

Boro also respect us, we are 'hated but rated' as they say in those circles.

We did have our fair share I agree, but we did seem to carry a code of respect that some other clubs fans didn't. The Boro incident was an accident, the guy had some condition and hit the floor wrong, it was a tragic event that happened through standard fisticuffs.
The scousers are different, they would happily slash straggling away fans and think it was a result. It's been documented time and time again, they are well known for it.

 

[Barry]

I always thought the blue half of liverpool had the worse rep for use of the stanley knife?

 

[Bryn Gunn]

I always thought the blue half of liverpool had the worse rep for use of the stanley knife?

They are as bad as each other, but at least Everton have some bottle and turn up. A lot of firms see them as a good firm that are less cowardly than Liverpool.
There was a big battle on Maid Marion Way one year with Everton...

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Boro also respect us, we are 'hated but rated' as they say in those circles.

We did have our fair share I agree, but we did seem to carry a code of respect that some other clubs fans didn't. The Boro incident was an accident, the guy had some condition and hit the floor wrong, it was a tragic event that happened through standard fisticuffs.
The scousers are different, they would happily slash straggling away fans and think it was a result. It's been documented time and time again, they are well known for it.

One of theirs gave evidence too for a reduced sentence against Ronnie....and agreed it was tragic how he fell but that kinda is my point. The conditions for a tragedy existed in large part because of the culture of the day.

On the train after Hillsborough there were a couple of scousers in tears with two empty seats beside them, some forest tried to sit down and they politely said please don't they were my children's seats who just died. One forest fan replied good and another said they won't need them then....

 

[Bryn Gunn]

One of theirs gave evidence too for a reduced sentence against Ronnie....and agreed it was tragic how he fell but that kinda is my point. The conditions for a tragedy existed in large part because of the culture of the day.

On the train after Hillsborough there were a couple of scousers in tears with two empty seats beside them, some forest tried to sit down and they politely said please don't they were my children's seats who just died. One forest fan replied good and another said they won't need them then....

I agree. Ronnie was unfortunate in some ways, but I suppose he knew the risks, like anyone that ever got involved. Same for the lad that died. But I think that highlights the difference here, innocent people died at Hillsborough, they weren't participating in any unsavoury activities that carried a risk.
It's not comparable.

As for the story on the train I can believe it. I saw and heard things I wasn't happy about after the game as well. But nothing to the degree of the allegations of Forest fans spitting on the dead.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I agree. Ronnie was unfortunate in some ways, but I suppose he knew the risks, like anyone that ever got involved. Same for the lad that died. But I think that highlights the difference here, innocent people died at Hillsborough, they weren't participating in any unsavoury activities that carried a risk.
It's not comparable.

As for the story on the train I can believe it. I saw and heard things I wasn't happy about after the game as well. But nothing to the degree of the allegations of Forest fans spitting on the dead.

It kicked off post game too...and I'm not suggesting those allegations are correct and I appreciate we all process these things differently but at times I just get so tired of these threads and certain types of responses. Anger, sorrow and guilt were my main emotions but for some it seems just anger is their only response and it's a more complex situation.

I'm guessing if you know Ronnie and others (even though I was a kid in his heyday) we've shared concrete steps at times.

 

[YellowBelly Red]

I always thought the blue half of liverpool had the worse rep for use of the stanley knife?

The infamous Gladys Street Cutters......well named and to be feared in their pomp.

 

[bloodred]

To answer the original question....no we couldn't, as we were not allowed to. Had we got on the pitch a terrible situation could have been made much worse.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

I'm guessing if you know Ronnie and others (even though I was a kid in his heyday) we've shared concrete steps at times.

Probably have mate, don't know him personally but knocked around with that crowd in the late 80's, early 90's.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Probably have mate, don't know him personally but knocked around with that crowd in the late 80's, early 90's.

those were the days....does Pompey ever go anymore? Right side or left side?

 

[stockers]

you did well to avoid it just before and during half time....and no it wasn't compulsory but we're still hated in Boro after killing one of theirs and caused trouble up and down the country. My point is simply that the culture of football fans played a significant role in what happened that terrible day and those who died were just normal fans out to watch a game. Scousers aren't a homogeneous mass and proportionately we had just as many mischief makers.

Agreed, but our trouble makers bought tickets.