Financial Fair Play (FFP)

[Fitzcarraldo]

Problem is, the „bottom ten clubs of the Premier League“ are almost an irrelevance, as they are entirely replaceable, and they know it, and so does the Premier League, because there are 20-odd teams in the Championship and probably another half dozen in League One who would bend over and do exactly what the Premier League wants, just for the chance of a season or two of Premier League money.

This is why when most PL decisions require a 14-club majority, the „rump“ clubs almost never act together in their own interests, to reign-in the „big six“.

What sells the Premier League is the (artificial) appeal of this supposed „big six“ and whoever they are playing this week, not the „small clubs“ as Richard Masters would have it.

The aspirational middle want exactly the same protections as the 'big 6'. The first wish of any owner of a newly promoted club is that the gap widens and, thus, their risk is reduced.

This is why talk of a 'super league' solving the inherent problem of greed and creating a utopia of equals in the new order, is folly. Six clubs on the next rung would quickly aim to replace them, and while scrapping over a fraction of the available resources - I'd guess without the 'big 6' the new EPL would be worth less than a quarter of it's current value. I suppose, the difference being we'd hope to be one of the 'next' six.

 

[enlightened]

I'd guess without the 'big 6' the new EPL would be worth less than a quarter of it's current value.

Suits me fine. Really. It'd make for a much better competition.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Suits me fine. Really. It'd make for a much better competition.

I think the sentence before that carried my meaning.

 

[congo_red_49]

Suits me fine. Really. It'd make for a much better competition.

I'm not sure it would. I could see whatever new league the Big 6 end up in, not being worried about sustainability and whatnot, having no rules around squad sizes or FFP, just hoovering up every player with an ounce of talent into their bloated squads - and leaving basically pub players for everyone else.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

So with the PL we've effectively now got a situation like the "Big Five" in the Eurovision Song Contest

They contribute all the money and so get a free pass, whereas all the minnows have to graft for it

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

I'm not sure it would. I could see whatever new league the Big 6 end up in, not being worried about sustainability and whatnot, having no rules around squad sizes or FFP, just hoovering up every player with an ounce of talent into their bloated squads - and leaving basically pub players for everyone else.

I'd give the new league 10 years before it starts to resemble the worst behaviours of the old and with a quality not too different to our final season in the EFL. Can't argue that some would be happy with that, though.

Personally, my only wish for Forest is to be competing with the very best, even if not quite at their level. Such as it was for the majority of our existence.

 

[congo_red_49]

So with the PL we've effectively now got a situation like the "Big Five" in the Eurovision Song Contest

They contribute all the money and so get a free pass, whereas all the minnows have to graft for it

Correct - apart from there ain't much graft in putting some half-baked songs that sound like they've been written by junior school kids together, for some talentless attention seekers to 'perform'.

 

[Cloughie1975]

So given that both sides can appeal, what happens if both sides appeal? Do both sides get to put forward their appeal or is only 1 appeal heard?

Is it a risk for forest not to appeal, because if they don't and the PL do then only theirs will be heard?

What a mess.

Despite their recent lovers’ tiff I would imagine Forest and the EPL are still talking.
I’d be surprised if there was an appeal by either side-a kind of ‘I’ll show you mine if you show
me yours’ arrangement.

 

[enlightened]

I'm not sure it would. I could see whatever new league the Big 6 end up in, not being worried about sustainability and whatnot, having no rules around squad sizes or FFP, just hoovering up every player with an ounce of talent into their bloated squads - and leaving basically pub players for everyone else.

The football would definitely be of lower quality but it would be more competitive. The less money there is involved, the more likely that is. And that suits me too.

 

[derbyshirered]

Suits me fine. Really. It'd make for a much better competition.

Only on the understanding that they can never comeback

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I'd guess without the 'big 6' the new EPL would be worth less than a quarter of it's current value.

Probably no more than 5%, let alone 25%.

West Ham, Newcastle, Brighton, Fulham, Bounremouth, Forest, Palace, Brentford, Everton, Luton, Burnley, Sheff Utd, Leicester, Leeds, Southampton, Villa, Wolves, Ipswich, West Brom and Norwich just isn't appealing to anyone outside of those cities for the most part.

The global audience would dry up overnight.

The football might be more competitive with different winners but we'd never have the chance to go up against the best of the best. Every victory would feel hollow, winning that league would feel hollow.

 

[enlightened]

This is why talk of a 'super league' solving the inherent problem of greed and creating a utopia of equals in the new order, is folly. Six clubs on the next rung would quickly aim to replace them, and while scrapping over a fraction of the available resources

So, dealing with that sentence (and a half). You're right - 6 teams would quickly aim to replace them, but with much less money involved the inequality would be much less.

 

[blue_eyes777]

My take on appealing is that Forest will appeal as :

1. Everton appealed and won points back

2. They will not risk the regret of not appealing in case Forest go down by a point or two. They will always wonder "what if".

3. An appeal will mean the season's relegation places may not be known at the end of the season and Marinakis will want to ensure maximum publicity.

Sent from my MI MAX 3 using Tapatalk

 

[enlightened]

The football might be more competitive with different winners but we'd never have the chance to go up against the best of the best. Every victory would feel hollow, winning that league would feel hollow.

Not to me. You can only win the competition you are in. Forest will never compete with the big clubs in the current environment - they just have a much bigger market and much bigger resources.
My local team, Warrington Town, the club whose matches I attend more than any other, won the Northern Premier League last season and believe me, nothing about that season felt hollow.

 

[YouReds43]

My take on appealing is that Forest will appeal as :

1. Everton appealed and won points back

2. They will not risk the regret of not appealing in case Forest go down by a point or two. They will always wonder "what if".

3. An appeal will mean the season's relegation places may not be known at the end of the season and Marinakis will want to ensure maximum publicity.

Sent from my MI MAX 3 using Tapatalk

The Appeal result would be by the end of April so it would be known by the end of the season

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Not to me. You can only win the competition you are in.

Ponder you this, when we won the play-offs was the overiding emotion "We're in the PL with the big boys, we're back, Championship football is a memory!" or was it "We've won the Championship play-offs!"

 

[enlightened]

Ponder you this, when we won the play-offs was the overiding emotion "We're in the PL with the big boys, we're back, Championship football is a memory!" or was it "We've won the Championship play-offs!"

A bit of both. And the former only because it currently exists. If there was a higher league that we couldn't get access to then that question goes away.
Ponder you this - If you won the EPL would the overriding emotion be "We're in the Champions League" or would it be "We are Premiership Champions"?

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Ponder you this - If you won the EPL would the overriding emotion be "We're in the Champions League" or would it be "We are Premiership Champions"?

Good retort.

 

[Chappers85]

I'm not sure it would. I could see whatever new league the Big 6 end up in, not being worried about sustainability and whatnot, having no rules around squad sizes or FFP, just hoovering up every player with an ounce of talent into their bloated squads - and leaving basically pub players for everyone else.

I'd be happy for it still happen, on the proviso that FIFA has some balls and bans any player at those clubs from representing their country (FA also follows suit and bans them from FA Cup). Once the current contracts run out, let's see how many players in their prime want to sacrifice international football. Plus after a few years, the novelty would wear off. All of a sudden, Chelsea and Spurs are whipping boy to the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus. A new status quo emerges and those previously big clubs are getting beat week after week, and then this global fanbase they have deserts them. The whole thing blows up and 5-10 years later they come crawling back to the English league, which has flourished in the meantime with genuine competition now the league isn't kowtowing to the needs and greed of the "Big 6", they say yes: "We've got 6 places available for you...in the Conference. Here's the FFP/PSR rules. What's that? You're not going to meet them...well then, I guess you'll have to start on -15 points. Oh, and there's only 2 promotion spots. Welcome back!"

Probably me being idealistic, but I don't think a European Super League could ever succeed long-term.

 

[congo_red_49]

I'd be happy for it still happen, on the proviso that FIFA has some balls

Yeah, lost me at that bit. Another corrupt organization that would be convinced by a few back-handers...so it's a no on the balls part.

 

[Chappers85]

Yeah, lost me at that bit. Another corrupt organization that would be convinced by a few back-handers...so it's a no on the balls part.

True. Probably even more corrupt. In an ideal world, the FAs of England, Germany, Spain, Italy, France etc would have got together and usurped the corrupt bastards after awarding 2018/2022 World Cups to Russia and Qatar.

 

[GOBIAS]

Hopefully I've worked this out correctly.

We sold BJ to Spurs for £47.5 million in the 2023 Summer transfer window. Brentford had made a variety of bids including £30 million, £32.5 million (July 21st) followed by £35 million (July 24th). They also made a late bid of £40 million (August 28th). For us to have had any chance of complying with FFP we'd have had to have sold Brennan by the PSR deadline, which was June 30th, so those Brentford bids were irrelevant to us being in compliance. However, earlier, on June 14th, Brentford offered £25 million. I don't know if accepting that figure then would have kept us the right side of FFP as I can't remember by how much we breached it.

Even so, the difference between Brentford's June offer and what we eventually got for him in September from Spurs is £22.5 million. That's almost double what Brentford offered.

So, to our current situation. We're currently sitting in 18th place. We obviously need to finish 17th (or above) to avoid relegation. If we finish in 17th we'll receive £8.8 million in prize money. We would have to finish in 6th place (worth £33 million) to make up for missing out on the additional £22.5 million that we got from Spurs had we sold BJ to Brentford in June. We were never going to finish in 6th place, even with Johnson.

I think we should be happy to accept the 4 point deduction, knowing that as long as we stay up, we're in a better financial position by selling Brennan when we did.

We are more sustainable, but broke the sustainability rules

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

We are more sustainable, but broke the sustainability rules

NO

We are more sustainable BECAUSE we broke the sustainability rules

 

[congo_red_49]

NO

We are more sustainable BECAUSE we broke the sustainability rules

Doesn't this go back to what I've been saying all along, that the rules themselves don't meet the objective for the rules existence?

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

Doesn't this go back to what I've been saying all along, that the rules themselves don't meet the objective for the rules existence?

No one is going to disagree with you.
That is the crazy thing about all this.

That would make a nice banner for Forza Garibaldi