Brennan Price Johnson

[Larry Lansbury]

I had heard a lot about Barnsley last year-first time I watched them last year was the play offs. Too me they were a very busy long ball team, high energy press, intense but pretty simple, raw tactics really. Though them maximising what they have got. Let’s hope CEO looks at our strengths and maximises them.

 

[NooForest]

I had heard a lot about Barnsley last year-first time I watched them last year was the play offs. Too me they were a very busy long ball team, high energy press, intense but pretty simple, raw tactics really. Though them maximising what they have got. Let’s hope CEO looks at our strengths and maximises them.

That's exactly what Barnsley were.

 

[Carlton Cosmo]

Dane likes a youthful team who plays a high pressing style, does that sound like any Hughton side from the last decade or so? It doesn’t to me.

I rate Hughton highly but his teams do not play the above style.

But wasn't it Hughton who brought young James Garner to Forest and played him nearly every game and also wanted to bring another youth player on loan from Tottenham plus is highly interested in bringing that young Derby defender to the club.

 

[cheapseats]

Burke went for 13m at the back end of the window after scoring 4 goals in Aug.

No reason when Johnson couldn't do the same if given the chance. If we do sell we'd be daft to sell now IMO.

Yes but its a tricky offer, not a huge amount but in the context of the current market quite a lot of money-Dane and the guys in the engine room will probably feel they can do quite a lot with 6M-its probably enough to push 3 maybe 4 deals over the line, so it could be viewed as sacrificing Brennan for the bigger picture. So I'm afraid to say I think we might do business at 6M even though I personally think it would be a mistake, both in terms of his potential value in time (which could be an awful lot) and the point we are in so close to next season....

 

[cheapseats]

I can’t edit me post - to add, Man City value the lad they had at Lincoln last year at 10M, Brennan was better than him at the same level, so, our valuation should be nearer 10 IMO.

But Haych there are 2 important reasons why this situation is totally different 1) City can do what they want, 10M to them is like 100k to us, peanuts. They won't even think about an offer unless it suits them and having to squeeze the pips out of 19 year olds TF fees is an irrelevance to them 2) The lad will be DESPERATE to play for city and so will his agent. They will do literally anything to get a chance at the Ethiad so there will be no sabre rattling or any nonsense behind the scenes, whatever happens to him it will happen on Citys terms. Theres the difference.
My reading of the situation (sadly) is that Brennan has been offered a new contract and he (and his dad) have decided against it. That will have been communicated to Brentford along with a calculated sum that they think will force Forest to do business, at the same time maximising what goes into Brennan and DJ's pockets (or the same pocket in reality).
...And so we will be left again like the Charles Dickens orphan staring through the window of the sweet shop at what might have been-who said there was no romance left in football?!!

 

[Otis Redding]

'Gegenpressing' sounds like a German porn movie to me-but it sounds great on his CV.
I bet Brian and Peter would have been impressed.

Clough and Taylor were a progressive management team, and would have adapted accordingly, just as they did by employing a counter-attacking 4-4-2 formation at Forest in contrast to the more-direct 4-2-4 style which they used whilst winning the League Championship at Derby.

 

[Cloughie1975]

Clough and Taylor were a progressive management team, and would have adapted accordingly, just as they did by employing a counter-attacking 4-4-2 formation at Forest in contrast to the more-direct 4-2-4 style which they used whilst winning the League Championship at Derby.

Sure Otis,Clough and Taylor could adapt where necessary(the Madrid final being a good example)-but I doubt if they would have adapted to being told by a
CEO what style to play(and indeed which players
were being signed).

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

The "Gaygunpress" worries me.

 

[Cloughie1975]

The "Gaygunpress" worries me.

At least our 2 new full backs look as if they are 'up for it'.
I just hope our new CEO doesn't get his trousers pulled down.

 

[Ricithysid]

If DM has this non-negotiable playing style, then he would need to buy CH a whole new team because we are not set up with Grabban, Lolley and Carvalho to play a high press.

Personally I think with the financial constraints this season any idealism about playing styles would have to be put on the back burner, if it even exists.

 

[Danga]

Sure Otis,Clough and Taylor could adapt where necessary(the Madrid final being a good example)-but I doubt if they would have adapted to being told by a CEO what style to play(and indeed which players were being signed).

I get it, but you really need to move on a bit mate, Clough left Forest nearly 30 years ago now. One thing that has held this club back is living in the shadows of BC & PT (and I mean that in the most respectful way possible). What Cloughie would have done bares now relevance to the hear and now.

With regards to Johnson (I think I am repeating myself but I can't remember ), Brentford wouldn't be bidding if the player doesn't fancy the move. If he fancies the move and doesn't want to put pen to paper on a new contract, that puts Forest in a tricky spot. I believe his current deal has two years to run? So what do you do? For a player who has only done it in league one so far, £6m is probably fair money (relative to what other good players from that league sold for). But I would be hoping Forest could push it to more like £10m figure if the lad doesn't want to stay.

 

[Cloughie1975]

I get it, but you really need to move on a bit mate, Clough left Forest nearly 30 years ago now. One thing that has held this club back is living in the shadows of BC & PT (and I mean that in the most respectful way possible). What Cloughie would have done bares now relevance to the hear and now.

With regards to Johnson (I think I am repeating myself but I can't remember ), Brentford wouldn't be bidding if the player doesn't fancy the move. If he fancies the move and doesn't want to put pen to paper on a new contract, that puts Forest in a tricky spot. I believe his current deal has two years to run? So what do you do? For a player who has only done it in league one so far, £6m is probably fair money (relative to what other good players from that league sold for). But I would be hoping Forest could push it to more like £10m figure if the lad doesn't want to stay.

I realise that Clough and Taylor(God rest their souls)left a long time ago,Gandalf.
However,I’ve never understood/supported the director of football/CEO role when they start interfering with
recruitment-after all,it’s the manager/head coach that gets it in the neck first if/when things go wrong.
I prefer the(supposedly outdated)model of appointing a trusted manager and giving him control of the transfer
policy,budget and playing style.
Obviously,the ghosts of Clough(and Taylor)swirl around the City Ground Gandalf,but the biggest thing holding
the club back over the past 30 years has been poor management and decision making.

 

[Danga]

However, I’ve never understood/supported the director of football/CEO role when they start interfering with recruitment-after all, it’s the manager/head coach that gets it in the neck first if/when things go wrong. I prefer the(supposedly outdated)model of appointing a trusted manager and giving him control of the transfer policy, budget and playing style.

But you are harping back to a model that doesn't exist in the top leagues any more (no doubt it exists lower down the football pyramid because they don't have the finances to employ the people required to make it work). The last of this breed was likely SAF and Wenger, but even they had scouts they trusted and agents they lent on to bring these players in.

Obviously, the ghosts of Clough(and Taylor) swirl around the City Ground Gandalf, but the biggest thing holding the club back over the past 30 years has been poor management and decision making.

Well yes if we take it back to the most simplistic way of looking at it. But I truly believe that people saying "What would Cloughie had done" or "Cloughie would never have done that" has been a cross every manager of this club has had to bear and it isn't a helpful one either.

 

[Cloughie1975]

But you are harping back to a model that doesn't exist in the top leagues any more (no doubt it exists lower down the football pyramid because they don't have the finances to employ the people required to make it work). The last of this breed was likely SAF and Wenger, but even they had scouts they trusted and agents they lent on to bring these players in.


Well yes if we take it back to the most simplistic way of looking at it. But I truly believe that people saying "What would Cloughie had done" or "Cloughie would never have done that" has been a cross every manager of this club has had to bear and it isn't a helpful one either.

It’s only human nature to look back at the good times,Gandalf.
However,most realistic supporters(myself included),realise the Clough era will never be repeated(bear in mind
I saw the collapse in the late 1960’s/early 1970’s)and have watched mainly rubbish for over 20 years-since the
club was not supported by the board in the summer of 1998.

 

[Haych]

But Haych there are 2 important reasons why this situation is totally different 1) City can do what they want, 10M to them is like 100k to us, peanuts. They won't even think about an offer unless it suits them and having to squeeze the pips out of 19 year olds TF fees is an irrelevance to them 2) The lad will be DESPERATE to play for city and so will his agent. They will do literally anything to get a chance at the Ethiad so there will be no sabre rattling or any nonsense behind the scenes, whatever happens to him it will happen on Citys terms. Theres the difference.
My reading of the situation (sadly) is that Brennan has been offered a new contract and he (and his dad) have decided against it. That will have been communicated to Brentford along with a calculated sum that they think will force Forest to do business, at the same time maximising what goes into Brennan and DJ's pockets (or the same pocket in reality).
...And so we will be left again like the Charles Dickens orphan staring through the window of the sweet shop at what might have been-who said there was no romance left in football?!!

If Brennan does reject our offer of a contract then the 6M would rightly have to be considered, when I place figures on players it’s what I deem them to be worth to Nottingham Forest not to footballing world in general.

For example, is Worall worth 20M? No way. I would argue to us he is though. I look at the Grealish transfer the same way albeit with prices on another planet to us, I don’t think anyone thinks he’s worth 100M but to Villa he is as currently he is the main man for them.

Ultimately, I don’t want us to be ripped off and to be fair to our current owners at least with outgoing players we generally do really well. If and when we learn how to be equally as good with incoming players we will be flying.

 

[Otis Redding]

I realise that Clough and Taylor(God rest their souls)left a long time ago,Gandalf.
However,I’ve never understood/supported the director of football/CEO role when they start interfering with
recruitment-after all,it’s the manager/head coach that gets it in the neck first if/when things go wrong.
I prefer the(supposedly outdated)model of appointing a trusted manager and giving him control of the transfer
policy,budget and playing style.
Obviously,the ghosts of Clough(and Taylor)swirl around the City Ground Gandalf,but the biggest thing holding
the club back over the past 30 years has been poor management and decision making.

It's all-well-and-good to say that the decision-making should have been better, but many of the clubs that have overtaken us and left us in their wake during the past 20-years have done so because they abandoned that traditional, old-school model, realising what a lottery it now is.

Likewise, as Gandalf says, comparing things to Brian Clough's time is, with all due respect, meaningless. Had Clough and Taylor been born 30-years-or-so later they would have managed in this modern, corporate-era of football and, as such, operated successfully under that system of being accountable to directors-of-football and CEOs. Just as it's an insult to BC's intelligence when some people say that he wouldn't have been able to manage multi-millionaire players with high-profile agents. He had a special talent that would have served him well in any era of football.

 

[Otis Redding]

Unable to further edit my post above by adding that Brian Clough was no master-tactician, nor was he a bully. His genius was a unique way of communicating.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

I get it, but you really need to move on a bit mate, Clough left Forest nearly 30 years ago now. One thing that has held this club back is living in the shadows of BC & PT (and I mean that in the most respectful way possible). What Cloughie would have done bares now relevance to the hear and now.

With regards to Johnson (I think I am repeating myself but I can't remember ), Brentford wouldn't be bidding if the player doesn't fancy the move. If he fancies the move and doesn't want to put pen to paper on a new contract, that puts Forest in a tricky spot. I believe his current deal has two years to run? So what do you do? For a player who has only done it in league one so far, £6m is probably fair money (relative to what other good players from that league sold for). But I would be hoping Forest could push it to more like £10m figure if the lad doesn't want to stay.

Clough's legacy was built on philosophies and modus operadni which has built empires. To say that has no relevance to now because of a few trends is daft IMO.

Yeah we might need to evolve it to bare in mind things such as modern wages etc, but I'd actually say most the club's failings in those 30 years have been born out of turning it's back on the Clough way, and trying to keep up with trends instead of setting them.

 

[Cloughie1975]

It's all-well-and-good to say that the decision-making should have been better, but many of the clubs that have overtaken us and left us in their wake during the past 20-years have done so because they abandoned that traditional, old-school model, realising what a lottery it now is.

Likewise, as Gandalf says, comparing things to Brian Clough's time is, with all due respect, meaningless. Had Clough and Taylor been born 30-years-or-so later they would have managed in this modern, corporate-era of football and, as such, operated successfully under that system of being accountable to directors-of-football and CEOs. Just as it's an insult to BC's intelligence when some people say that he wouldn't have been able to manage multi-millionaire players with high-profile agents. He had a special talent that would have served him well in any era of football.

There would clearly be a place for Cloughie in the modern game.
However,whether he would be so successful is open to conjecture,indeed,Duncan Hamilton,in his brilliant account
of the Clough years'Provided you don't kiss me', advances the theory that he wouldn't have achieved so much, for
the reasons you mention(directors of football,CEO's and working with agents).I couldn't imagine a CEO sleeping
downstairs at Archie Gemmill's house to ensure the transfer was completed!
In my opinion,Brian Clough was a one off maverick flawed genius and very much a man of his time-sadly,football
will never see his like again.

 

[Cloughie1975]

Clough's legacy was built on philosophies and modus operadni which has built empires. To say that has no relevance to now because of a few trends is daft IMO.

Yeah we might need to evolve it to bare in mind things such as modern wages etc, but I'd actually say most the club's failings in those 30 years have been born out of turning it's back on the Clough way, and trying to keep up with trends instead of setting them.

Good point Alf,I often sit watching games(sometimes in despair),and wonder whether the club actually learnt
anything from BC-especially about how to construct a team and the importance of the strikers being able to
instantly control the ball and turn and move.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Football was a simpler game back then. No dieticians, FFP, players-with-massive-egos-because-of-the-Sky-wankfest-that-will-demand-a-transfer-if-you-tell-them-theyre-shite. No integrating loads of foreign players, smaller squads so fewer tactical options etc.

Clough would have been successful in modern times no doubt such was his way with people, but it might well have been just as a coach on the training ground, rather than a manager as the face of a club.

 

[Rzar]

FFP has generally been a travesty for football, complete elitism when most of the clubs at the top got their by investing in a way they couldn't in this era.

 

[Cloughie1975]

FFP has generally been a travesty for football, complete elitism when most of the clubs at the top got their by investing in a way they couldn't in this era.

Yes,another reason why BC couldn't have taken medium sized clubs like Forest and Derby to the top in the
modern game.

 

[Strummer]

You know, I often read a lot of pieces about how Mr. Clough wouldn’t have been a success in the modern game, because he was a demanding, domineering communicator who formed his sides (several of them) in his own image.

And then I think of someone like Diego Simeone, a demanding, domineering communicator who forms his sides (several of them) in his own image, and I reckon Mr. Clough would have done just fine.

 

[Haych]

Yes,another reason why BC couldn't have taken medium sized clubs like Forest and Derby to the top in the
modern game.

Therefore FFP is working. They don’t want clubs like ours and others to improve and challenge the elite, they want us to shut up and rot, something we’ve done a good job of so far.