Brennan Price Johnson

[cheapseats]

A goalscorer is a goalscorer, and we sorely lack them. Hell Grant banged one past Spurs for us. I don't think that makes him a Prem player, but it shows he's not limited to scoring against lower league opposition.

These lads don't have to hit those numbers in this league to be worth their spot in the squad. THey just have to score more than the expensive toss which replaced them.

Grant>>>>>>>>>>>Bachirou, Gurerro, Artur
Johnson>>>>>>>>>Carvalho
Walker>>>>>>>>>>Guerrer, Da Costa, Talyor,
Brereton>>>>>>>>Da Costa

I'd much sooner have all 4 of those lads here and be around 8m down in sales whilst maintaining a better balanced wage bill, than the toss we bought for 15-20m & higher wages off that list.

I'd keep any of those players we sold over the ones we signed to replace them.



In context Grabban cost 6m and is on the way out. Those lads cost £0 and are on the up.

Grabban might be on his way out but that's after 3 seasons where he's (on the whole) done a very, very good job, including scoring 20+ one season in a team set up for nothing but scraps on the break. No player is immortal and I'd say his return on outlay (what ever happens from here) has been very good for us.

The whole theme of young vs experienced players which we explore on nearly every thread is actually very complex, not least for the managers that have to get the whole working and winning within 4 months in a horrendously competitive league or face the sack. Its hardly an environment where you can "develop" players over 3 years at first team level before they start to look like the real deal (Grant for example). Like you I pine for the day where we could put out a team with 8 of our graduates playing the Forest way as we used to but its gone. I'm also not for one minute saying we haven't make a whole truck load of bad signings, but Im also lament the fact that no one seems to get a chance here-not just the kids. I mean if you look at your list, who can say if Bachirou is a good player, or for that matter Taylor?....

 

[Otis Redding]

Grabban might be on his way out but that's after 3 seasons where he's (on the whole) done a very, very good job, including scoring 20+ one season in a team set up for nothing but scraps on the break. No player is immortal and I'd say his return on outlay (what ever happens from here) has been very good for us.

The whole theme of young vs experienced players which we explore on nearly every thread is actually very complex, not least for the managers that have to get the whole working and winning within 4 months in a horrendously competitive league or face the sack. Its hardly an environment where you can "develop" players over 3 years at first team level before they start to look like the real deal (Grant for example). Like you I pine for the day where we could put out a team with 8 of our graduates playing the Forest way as we used to but its gone. I'm also not for one minute saying we haven't make a whole truck load of bad signings, but Im also lament the fact that no one seems to get a chance here-not just the kids. I mean if you look at your list, who can say if Bachirou is a good player, or for that matter Taylor?....

I think you make some good points.

This revisionism of Grant by certain posters is an interesting one. He was 24 when we decided to accept the offer from Lincoln, and he was clearly no closer to being made a first-team regular here by the different managers/head-coaches in situ during the period of his last contract than he was when he had his first run-out. On the few occasions he played he showed that he had a decent first-touch and delivery, but so do a lot of players who still struggle to make an impact in the Championship.

I'm pleased for Jorge that he's making a name for himself at Lincoln, but he's in a side (at a lower-level) that suits his style, rather than staying at a club that plays a system that doesn't, which was the situation in 2019.

 

[Berkshire Red]

Of course Grant is better than Arter, always has been an always will be. I am sure that Grant will have promotions to the Premier league and International caps with the Republic of Ireland (or equivalent) when he finishes football.

Just as I am sure that everyone who pines for his return, or for him never to have left, was fully behind him and advocating him being in the team each week when he was here

 

[Rzar]

It's pretty easy to rack up good numbers when you have had 16 penalties. If Johnson was on them instead of Grant who knows what numbers he would have put up.

 

[incapable hulk]

I am very much looking forward to seeing Brennan take his chance next season. With him you can see the talent and how quickly he's developed in just a single season. That improvement was visible from week to week to at Lincoln and the lad is clearly on an upward trajectory..

I never really saw that with Walker or Brereton.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

I am very much looking forward to seeing Brennan take his chance next season. With him you can see the talent and how quickly he's developed in just a single season. That improvement was visible from week to week to at Lincoln and the lad is clearly on an upward trajectory..

I never really saw that with Walker or Brereton.

Whether you see it or not Hulkster, he wont help Forest win anything just like scores of the young talented footballers we produce.

If all goes well his sale in the not too distant future will help the wage bill of the dross players and their rich agents we do buy/loan.

 

[Timothy Pope]

Whether you see it or not Hulkster, he wont help Forest win anything just like scores of the young talented footballers we produce.

If all goes well his sale in the not too distant future will help the wage bill of the dross players and their rich agents we do buy/loan.

That’s modern football for all but those at the top of the food chain


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Matt]

I think you make some good points.

This revisionism of Grant by certain posters is an interesting one. He was 24 when we decided to accept the offer from Lincoln, and he was clearly no closer to being made a first-team regular here by the different managers/head-coaches in situ during the period of his last contract than he was when he had his first run-out. On the few occasions he played he showed that he had a decent first-touch and delivery, but so do a lot of players who still struggle to make an impact in the Championship.

I'm pleased for Jorge that he's making a name for himself at Lincoln, but he's in a side (at a lower-level) that suits his style, rather than staying at a club that plays a system that doesn't, which was the situation in 2019.

I don’t necessarily agree with the narrative that Lincoln play to his style, or that we didn’t suit his style in 2019.

Grant has developed his game and added the work rate around his talent which has lead to how successful Lincoln have been with him at the base of midfield this season. He actually plays a CDM role when Bridcutt isn’t in the squad.

However, he wouldn’t have been able to do that in the madhouse that is Nottingham Forest, so your point is still valid.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

That’s modern football for all but those at the top of the food chain

Yes I know mate and I will oppose it and keep bringing it up to my death.

Just on the billion to one chance football goes back to a more level playing field.

Those that can't bear to read it, put me on ignore or whatever it is.

 

[cheapseats]

I don’t necessarily agree with the narrative that Lincoln play to his style, or that we didn’t suit his style in 2019.

Grant has developed his game and added the work rate around his talent which has lead to how successful Lincoln have been with him at the base of midfield this season. He actually plays a CDM role when Bridcutt isn’t in the squad.

However, he wouldn’t have been able to do that in the madhouse that is Nottingham Forest, so your point is still valid.

I don't think anyone said (or thought) that it was anything to do with style, it was more that he was lightweight and in and out of games despite having a good touch, clear deadball ability and a useful knack of scoring. I liked the kid when he played for us but remember watching him a few times at the CG and being worried by how seasoned opposition midfielders were able to easily squeeze him from the game and take control of midfield.
I don't think anyone doubted a lot of this was inexperience and lack of physical development but I think we've been proven right that this was going to take a few years to come good at Championship level.

Like it or not, one of the problems of having a good academy is that we are continually having to weigh up the development and potential of good young kids. Most of these cuts occur earlier and out of the average fans sight, but there are some, like Grant where it happens later and its clear that his development won't be served through our 1st team. At the point you either do the decent thing and let them move on or force them to sit and warm a bench (at best) and then accept they go when their contract runs out because you can't offer them better.

I don't really loose sleep over Grant, his trajectory was probably already written, I'm more sad about players like Burke, who was at a higher level, would have. done well and has bombed since leaving us.

 

[Statto]

I don't think anyone said (or thought) that it was anything to do with style, it was more that he was lightweight and in and out of games despite having a good touch, clear deadball ability and a useful knack of scoring. I liked the kid when he played for us but remember watching him a few times at the CG and being worried by how seasoned opposition midfielders were able to easily squeeze him from the game and take control of midfield.
I don't think anyone doubted a lot of this was inexperience and lack of physical development but I think we've been proven right that this was going to take a few years to come good at Championship level.

Like it or not, one of the problems of having a good academy is that we are continually having to weigh up the development and potential of good young kids. Most of these cuts occur earlier and out of the average fans sight, but there are some, like Grant where it happens later and its clear that his development won't be served through our 1st team. At the point you either do the decent thing and let them move on or force them to sit and warm a bench (at best) and then accept they go when their contract runs out because you can't offer them better.

I don't really loose sleep over Grant, his trajectory was probably already written, I'm more sad about players like Burke, who was at a higher level, would have. done well and has bombed since leaving us.

Your comparison is interesting though, as it shows a player who is physically advanced for his age, in terms of his build and simple raw pace, over one who is a long way behind and is slight but technically capable. In an age group side and as a young pro the former type is always likely to dominate, and that's probably also why Dekel is being released.

I never thought Grant would really make it with us. He hadn't looked too bad on loan, but then I think at Notts, he was aided with Yates being in there too, adding a physical presence. But given that he wasn't physically that strong, and also that he had a late start to football (didn't really sign with our acedemy until a lot later, like Cash, though I think Grant came from the Nike Academy) so presumably had to make the step up in levels as well as everything else, he needed time we couldn't give him.

I always thought Burke was a bit overrated, didn't really have much tactical awareness behind the eyes, and just looked like a lump who could run around, which I guess works to an extent, but he probably would have been found out here after a while.

Brennan seems to have the intelligence and speed to not be too much concerned with still being a bit slight, but he's not long out of his teens isn't he? Certainly capable of making an impact next season.

 

[cheapseats]

Your comparison is interesting though, as it shows a player who is physically advanced for his age, in terms of his build and simple raw pace, over one who is a long way behind and is slight but technically capable. In an age group side and as a young pro the former type is always likely to dominate, and that's probably also why Dekel is being released.

I never thought Grant would really make it with us. He hadn't looked too bad on loan, but then I think at Notts, he was aided with Yates being in there too, adding a physical presence. But given that he wasn't physically that strong, and also that he had a late start to football (didn't really sign with our acedemy until a lot later, like Cash, though I think Grant came from the Nike Academy) so presumably had to make the step up in levels as well as everything else, he needed time we couldn't give him.

I always thought Burke was a bit overrated, didn't really have much tactical awareness behind the eyes, and just looked like a lump who could run around, which I guess works to an extent, but he probably would have been found out here after a while.

Brennan seems to have the intelligence and speed to not be too much concerned with still being a bit slight, but he's not long out of his teens isn't he? Certainly capable of making an impact next season.

Can't disagree with anything here Statto, I'm also really hoping that Brennan kicks on with us, despite my slight cynicism as when it happens for players like this and they start to really accelerate in development they are the most fun to watch. Finger crossed.

 

[incapable hulk]

Whether you see it or not Hulkster, he wont help Forest win anything just like scores of the young talented footballers we produce.

If all goes well his sale in the not too distant future will help the wage bill of the dross players and their rich agents we do buy/loan.

Ray, have you been asleep in your armchair for the last 30 years?

That is the same for every club not in the top 4 of the Premier League.

Not sure how it relates to Walker and Brereton not being very good though.

 

[Red bandit]

I don’t understand why some posters are hesitant about playing youngsters. As someone once said, if they are good enough they’re old enough.
Some of the top premiership clubs have played teenagers regularly this season.
Gareth Southgate has called up a 17 year old and two 19 year olds for his squad.

I am looking forward to seeing Brennan starting regularly for us and making a significant contribution to the coming season.

 

[cheapseats]

I don’t understand why some posters are hesitant about playing youngsters. As someone once said, if they are good enough they’re old enough.
Some of the top premiership clubs have played teenagers regularly this season.
Gareth Southgate has called up a 17 year old and two 19 year olds for his squad.

I am looking forward to seeing Brennan starting regularly for us and making a significant contribution to the coming season.

I'm certainly not hesitant, but its best to give them the best chance to succeed or they go backwards...
Really good sides in the prem have so much quality and solidity they can often "carry" the younger player even through the moments when they are struggling or if they are "out" of a game which is a fact with youngsters.
Unstable and/or poor sides find the above harder....

Brewnnans clearly ready for his chance, what happens only time will tell....

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Grabban might be on his way out but that's after 3 seasons where he's (on the whole) done a very, very good job, including scoring 20+ one season in a team set up for nothing but scraps on the break. No player is immortal and I'd say his return on outlay (what ever happens from here) has been very good for us.

The whole theme of young vs experienced players which we explore on nearly every thread is actually very complex, not least for the managers that have to get the whole working and winning within 4 months in a horrendously competitive league or face the sack. Its hardly an environment where you can "develop" players over 3 years at first team level before they start to look like the real deal (Grant for example). Like you I pine for the day where we could put out a team with 8 of our graduates playing the Forest way as we used to but its gone. I'm also not for one minute saying we haven't make a whole truck load of bad signings, but Im also lament the fact that no one seems to get a chance here-not just the kids. I mean if you look at your list, who can say if Bachirou is a good player, or for that matter Taylor?....

Great post mate, and I wholeheartedly agree with most of that.

Apart from the bit about Bachirou & Taylor. Grant did more at Forest than Bachirou, which isn't saying much but is still true, Walker scored more than Taylor this season in the Champ. I think it's fair to say that we'd have been better off this season gone with the academy players here, rather than the players we signed to reaplace them.

Especially when you consider that the academy players will have been on less wages too (Walker is rumoured to be on 7.5k/wk at Cov)

But again, really great post.

 

[Strummer]

I don’t understand why some posters are hesitant about playing youngsters. As someone once said, if they are good enough they’re old enough.
Some of the top premiership clubs have played teenagers regularly this season.
Gareth Southgate has called up a 17 year old and two 19 year olds for his squad.

I am looking forward to seeing Brennan starting regularly for us and making a significant contribution to the coming season.

My local side fielded the youngest team in the Bundesliga this past season.

And that was partially distorted because midfielder Gonzlo Castro featured prominently (and as the Club Captain, he should, but he’s 34). Had he not been selected, the averaged age would have dropped to just over 22.

 

[cheapseats]

Great post mate, and I wholeheartedly agree with most of that.

Apart from the bit about Bachirou & Taylor. Grant did more at Forest than Bachirou, which isn't saying much but is still true, Walker scored more than Taylor this season in the Champ. I think it's fair to say that we'd have been better off this season gone with the academy players here, rather than the players we signed to reaplace them.

Especially when you consider that the academy players will have been on less wages too (Walker is rumoured to be on 7.5k/wk at Cov)

But again, really great post.

Maybe, but again how do you know with Bachirou-he never got a chance on the pitch at all so by your criteria the tea lady was a better prospect/return than poor Bachirou...

I think we can agree on one thing-that its bloody stupid and a waste.

 

[MASE]

I don’t understand why some posters are hesitant about playing youngsters. As someone once said, if they are good enough they’re old enough.
Some of the top premiership clubs have played teenagers regularly this season.
Gareth Southgate has called up a 17 year old and two 19 year olds for his squad.

I am looking forward to seeing Brennan starting regularly for us and making a significant contribution to the coming season.

Im not so much hesitant about playing youngsters, more overplaying them, particularly when there not contributing and there's better options available. We've been guilty of that this season & hopefully the penny's dropped.

My overriding memory of last season was shit wing play, to that end, I'm ready for a player like Johnson to get his chance given his numbers. What we need is pressure on these players to perform in the form of effective back up, hopefully the recruiters can get it right.

 

[cheapseats]

Im not so much hesitant about playing youngsters, more overplaying them, particularly when there not contributing and there's better options available. We've been guilty of that this season & hopefully the penny's dropped.

My overriding memory of last season was shit wing play, to that end, I'm ready for a player like Johnson to get his chance given his numbers. What we need is pressure on these players to perform in the form of effective back up, hopefully the recruiters can get it right.

Completely agree Mase. I'd go further we can only give the youngsters latitude when the rest of the team over-performs and takes pressure off them. Last year was a dreadful season in that regard and if it happens again don't expect kids dropped into the side to develop, they will flounder.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

Ray, have you been asleep in your armchair for the last 30 years?

That is the same for every club not in the top 4 of the Premier League.

Not sure how it relates to Walker and Brereton not being very good though.

Already acknowledged Hulkster - post #1109.

It's about Brennan (the thread) being another very good youngster that wont be utilised to build a promotion charge.

Me and Otis want a promotion before we go into the crematorium mate.

 

[congo_red_49]

Im not so much hesitant about playing youngsters, more overplaying them, particularly when there not contributing and there's better options available. We've been guilty of that this season & hopefully the penny's dropped.

We've had better options this season? I must have blinked and missed them.

 

[MASE]

We've had better options this season? I must have blinked and missed them.

Theres been better options than Ryan Yates sat on the bench.

 

[congo_red_49]

Theres been better options than Ryan Yates sat on the bench.

I respectfully disagree. We've only picked one Midfielder all season who can legitimately say they were a better option - that being Garner. The rest of the midfield, including Yates - are no better than each other.

 

[valspoodle]

I think the key point is "if they are good enough, they are old enough". Nail on head. They have to be good enough.