Brennan Price Johnson

[Ashley]

Lincoln can do it, why can’t we?

Completely different expectations from both ownership and the fanbases of each club.

What Appleton did at Lincoln didn't happen overnight, but Lincoln stuck with him after they finished 16th last season so that he can build towards making Lincoln what they are now.

Any manager who fails to challenge for the top 6 at Forest on the other hand quickly come under fire from the fanbase (regardless of the brand of football they try to play) and the owner's history shows that any manager who doesn't get results won't last long (it only took Sabri 4 games to get the boot this season, and Hughton will probably meet a similar fate if he gets off to a bad start next season).

Results are all that matter at Forest, the powers that be don't care how those results are achieved and the style of football won't save any manager from the sack if they aren't delivering.

 

[alabamared]

Completely different expectations from both ownership and the fanbases of each club.

What Appleton did at Lincoln didn't happen overnight, but Lincoln stuck with him after they finished 16th last season so that he can build towards making Lincoln what they are now.

Any manager who fails to challenge for the top 6 at Forest on the other hand quickly come under fire from the fanbase (regardless of the brand of football they try to play) and the owner's history shows that any manager who doesn't get results won't last long (it only took Sabri 4 games to get the boot this season, and Hughton will probably meet a similar fate if he gets off to a bad start next season).

Results are all that matter at Forest, the powers that be don't care how those results are achieved and the style of football won't save any manager from the sack if they aren't delivering.

While in principle I agree with you Sabri's poor start was only a continuation of the horrible end to the previous season. I am surprised he even got to start this season!

 

[Red Ray's Redlist]

While in principle I agree with you Sabri's poor start was only a continuation of the horrible end to the previous season. I am surprised he even got to start this season!

It's not really been mentioned but we had a similarly poor end to this season - 4 points from the last 6 games. Obviously not as catastrophic as last season's results, but not exactly the springboard to a promotion push you'd hope for.

 

[cheapseats]

It's not really been mentioned but we had a similarly poor end to this season - 4 points from the last 6 games. Obviously not as catastrophic as last season's results, but not exactly the springboard to a promotion push you'd hope for.

And your point being?

The circumstances were of course totally different. Whatever people, including a manager says, when a club reaches safety and has nothing to play for mathematically then performances are always affected.
Remember 1/2 our squad knew they wouldn’t be here

 

[Otis Redding]

While in principle I agree with you Sabri's poor start was only a continuation of the horrible end to the previous season. I am surprised he even got to start this season!

I completely agree; a situation further compounded by the short close-season, ensuring that things were still very raw.

 

[Matt]

Lincoln can do it, why can’t we?

The absolute storm that Lincoln had when Appleton came in and sold all the seasoned cloggers and bought a load of teenagers that had never played a full season of senior football was tremendous by little town standards. They have one of the smallest budgets and youngest squads in the 72.

If someone did that at Forest there would be histrionics. We’d have people painting bedsheets in the car park again.

It simply would be unacceptable to the vast majority of the fan base and that would mean any chance of success would be squashed. These projects take years.

The Lincoln plan was to be challenging for top 6 in 22/23 with a realistic view at promotion in 23/24. They actually don’t have the infrastructure in the ground to support championship football atm - if they get promoted, they’ll need to spend about £2m to get Sincil Bank to the required standard.

That’s why Forest will always build on solidity and ‘not losing’ first, because that strategy can be implemented much faster and more successfully in the short term.

 

[It's Baggio]

That’s why Forest will always build on solidity and ‘not losing’ first, because that strategy can be implemented much faster and more successfully in the short term.

Really?

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

Sell him fer 20 mill to finance dross wages, we must stay in the doldrums.

 

[Matt]

Really?

Yeah

 

[It's Baggio]

Yeah

Fingers crossed then.

 

[stantonred]

The absolute storm that Lincoln had when Appleton came in and sold all the seasoned cloggers and bought a load of teenagers that had never played a full season of senior football was tremendous by little town standards. They have one of the smallest budgets and youngest squads in the 72.

If someone did that at Forest there would be histrionics. We’d have people painting bedsheets in the car park again.

It simply would be unacceptable to the vast majority of the fan base and that would mean any chance of success would be squashed. These projects take years.

The Lincoln plan was to be challenging for top 6 in 22/23 with a realistic view at promotion in 23/24. They actually don’t have the infrastructure in the ground to support championship football atm - if they get promoted, they’ll need to spend about £2m to get Sincil Bank to the required standard.

That’s why Forest will always build on solidity and ‘not losing’ first, because that strategy can be implemented much faster and more successfully in the short term.

I don’t think it would be unacceptable to most of the fan base. If the club came forward and said we’re looking at a long term project, getting a young, exciting team together but it’s going to take time,a new there’ll be bumps along the way. Majority of us would be behind that. Seeing it take shape, watching the football improve, over a season or two and no more mercenary final pay packet cloggers. We’d back that surely?

If you’re asked whether you want to watch defensive, dour football and be lucky to finish top half (I’ve got no faith that we’ll be any better than that) or watch the platform being built and finish mid table, knowing there’s a sustainable plan in place. I know which I’d take. Even if the current plan did by some miracle get us to the play offs, I’d still take the other option as long term it’s a better blueprint for success

 

[Matt]

I don’t think it would be unacceptable to most of the fan base. If the club came forward and said we’re looking at a long term project, getting a young, exciting team together but it’s going to take time,a new there’ll be bumps along the way. Majority of us would be behind that. Seeing it take shape, watching the football improve, over a season or two and no more mercenary final pay packet cloggers. We’d back that surely?

If you’re asked whether you want to watch defensive, dour football and be lucky to finish top half (I’ve got no faith that we’ll be any better than that) or watch the platform being built and finish mid table, knowing there’s a sustainable plan in place. I know which I’d take. Even if the current plan did by some miracle get us to the play offs, I’d still take the other option as long term it’s a better blueprint for success

And who bankrolls the club during that time, effectively pissing £10-£15 *million* pounds *a year* up the wall in the hope that the plan might work next season? No sane businessman is going to take that approach over trying to find a system that can work in 2 seasons. Lincoln’s plan was 3 and a half years long.

The other huge difference is Lincoln are fiscally sound and run very well.

I’m not saying I’d rather have things the way we have them - I’m just saying that pragmatically it is the only way it’s going to be done.

 

[BryanRoy]

And who bankrolls the club during that time, effectively pissing £10-£15 *million* pounds *a year* up the wall in the hope that the plan might work next season? No sane businessman is going to take that approach over trying to find a system that can work in 2 seasons. Lincoln’s plan was 3 and a half years long.

The other huge difference is Lincoln are fiscally sound and run very well.

I’m not saying I’d rather have things the way we have them - I’m just saying that pragmatically it is the only way it’s going to be done.

Maybe just maybe Matt he will realise how costly his current modus operandi has been only for him to go backwards.

Part of the problem at the club under this ownership is the environment they give the coach and the players. Especially older players who are limited.

Time to put in the hard yards and if you do so up front then down the line you give yourself a better chance of success.

 

[Eddie Yates]

It's not really been mentioned but we had a similarly poor end to this season - 4 points from the last 6 games. Obviously not as catastrophic as last season's results, but not exactly the springboard to a promotion push you'd hope for.

Yeah & CH hasn't been sacked like Lamouchi wasn't

He might be if he loses the first 5 games of next season

 

[Ashley]

Maybe just maybe Matt he will realise how costly his current modus operandi has been only for him to go backwards.

Part of the problem at the club under this ownership is the environment they give the coach and the players. Especially older players who are limited.

Time to put in the hard yards and if you do so up front then down the line you give yourself a better chance of success.

I hope so. The ownership needs to realise at some point that we don't have the resources to buy a team capable of instant success, and we will need to adopt a more long-term/slow build approach to things if we are to have any chance of success.

I'm not holding my breath on that front though. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[It's Baggio]

Maybe just maybe Matt he will realise how costly his current modus operandi has been only for him to go backwards.

Part of the problem at the club under this ownership is the environment they give the coach and the players. Especially older players who are limited.

Time to put in the hard yards and if you do so up front then down the line you give yourself a better chance of success.

Maybe they'll reflect on how they've been here 4 years, appointed 4 pragmatists that favour a predominantly conservative, safety first style of Football, spent fortunes on a variety of experienced pro's that can give us 'short term' success and yet we find ourselves one point better off than the rabble that scraped to survival in 2017.

 

[Matt]

Maybe just maybe Matt he will realise how costly his current modus operandi has been only for him to go backwards.

Part of the problem at the club under this ownership is the environment they give the coach and the players. Especially older players who are limited.

Time to put in the hard yards and if you do so up front then down the line you give yourself a better chance of success.

I completely agree and hope that he does take the approach we’ve suggested. I just don’t think it’s quite as black and white or simple as we’d like to believe and, whilst our owner is clearly invested in the success of the club, it is asking a lot to swallow huge losses and relative uncertainty in order to facilitate a long term plan.

I’m just being pragmatic. If it was my money, I’m not entirely sure I would have done a huge amount different than what Marinakis has done. Perhaps less reliance on international markets and more lower league players, but I probably would still have appointed Karanka, Lamouchi and Hughton or managers of that ilk.

 

[cheapseats]

I don’t think it would be unacceptable to most of the fan base. If the club came forward and said we’re looking at a long term project, getting a young, exciting team together but it’s going to take time,a new there’ll be bumps along the way. Majority of us would be behind that. Seeing it take shape, watching the football improve, over a season or two and no more mercenary final pay packet cloggers. We’d back that surely?

If you’re asked whether you want to watch defensive, dour football and be lucky to finish top half (I’ve got no faith that we’ll be any better than that) or watch the platform being built and finish mid table, knowing there’s a sustainable plan in place. I know which I’d take. Even if the current plan did by some miracle get us to the play offs, I’d still take the other option as long term it’s a better blueprint for success

You’ve clearly got fairies at the bottom of your garden....

 

[stantonred]

You’ve clearly got fairies at the bottom of your garden....

Huh?

Because I have a different opinion?

Sticking with the same don’t lose first attitude we’ve had for 4 years is a better option?

Definition of insanity and all that

 

[Statto]

Didn't we get whooped every week when we went down the route of little boys under Warburton, and replace him with a more pragmatic manager in Karanka?

Much as I'd like the idea of a load of academy players driving us to promotion, we don't have the quality coming out of there or the patience to let it happen.

 

[TommyT]

And who bankrolls the club during that time, effectively pissing £10-£15 *million* pounds *a year* up the wall in the hope that the plan might work next season? No sane businessman is going to take that approach over trying to find a system that can work in 2 seasons. Lincoln’s plan was 3 and a half years long.

The other huge difference is Lincoln are fiscally sound and run very well.

I’m not saying I’d rather have things the way we have them - I’m just saying that pragmatically it is the only way it’s going to be done.

Well, Mariankis has been bank rolling the current approach for 3 years with little result, yes we almost shithoused our way into the playoffs last season, but if we're all honest Sabriball was found out by February.

Realistically we probably lack the talent coming through the academy to really commit to a different approach, but it still represents a more exciting prospect.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[cheapseats]

Huh?

Because I have a different opinion?

Sticking with the same don’t lose first attitude we’ve had for 4 years is a better option?

Definition of insanity and all that

It doesn’t stand up to even basic scrutiny.
So a tiny club, with minuscule resources and a small fan base used to the bottom end of the pyramid has modest success no L2/L1 playing with teenagers and you think that we should have a go?.

Quite apart from the large number of practical
Reasons it wouldn’t work here, have you thought what would happen when said team of kids got back to back spankings away for example at Blackburn and Middlesborough when they come up against the wily old foxes that manage those clubs and know exactly how to set up to neutralise and then eviserate a team of kids?. Fact is that far from “showing patience” the entitled fan base at Forest would turn on the team, manager and owner in the face of sustained negative results. How do you think Warnock will be feeling if Lincoln are promoted?-guaranteed 6 points thats how. There would be unhappiness at Forest in the stands in the press and on social Merida (like here). The Manager would be sacked at some point and we would be back to square one.
And god help us is we had a season like this one and those kids found themselves in the bottom 5 fighting for their lives against relegation. I wonder how the flowing, champagne football would fare then?.

I’m a dyed in the wool, on the deck, free flowing attacking football fan-thats one of the reasons I got into Forest when I was younger. I believe we will see it again one day but it will only come in the modern era with balance, and real patience, under a good manager, not one extreme approach or another which are doomed 98% of the time before they’ve even started

 

[Master Yates]

Ultimately I’d like to adopt a bit of a hybrid approach between the two approaches.

If Marinakis is willing to sustain the wage bill at current levels, then I would still try to fill the first eleven with established players, as it gives us the best chance of competing.

BUT, we need to keep hold of the manager for longer than one year, or it just becomes a new bomb squad every season. If you have some stability in the manager, you don’t collect all these unwanted players. I’d also limit new contracts to 1 year for anyone 31 and over.

Then, I’d have the bulk of the rest of the squad made up with relatively low wage players. Academy graduates, lower league finds who need a bit of polishing. Once any of these players step up and become first teamers, they can be rewarded with better contracts. Try before you buy is much better than taking expensive punts on older players.

This way, we should only be looking for 3-4 established players each summer, and maybe a couple of younger ones to replace the younger players who didn’t step up.

It would keep the squad tighter, the wage bill and bomb squad down and allow us to concentrate on bringing in genuine quality instead of dozens of average players. We could play the PL loan market a lot more effectively for example, if we only needed to add a Harry Wilson type to a strong, settled first eleven.

Of course an injury crisis could see us looking a bit green, but to be honest, any non-parachute club who has an injury crisis is not getting promoted anyway, as nobody has the squad depth for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[valspoodle]

Reading through the last few pages, Brennan Johnson has a heck of a job to sort out the manager, the recruitment policy and to set the owner on a policy heading in the correct direction.

Perhaps the job's too big and he might follow Dad's advice to move club after all.

 

[Master Yates]

Reading through the last few pages, Brennan Johnson has a heck of a job to sort out the manager, the recruitment policy and to set the owner on a policy heading in the correct direction.

Perhaps the job's too big and he might follow Dad's advice to move club after all.

In great LTLF fashion, it has drifted somewhat off topic hasn’t it.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk