Snatchday 1: Nottingham Forest Vs the PGMOL

[Notcher]

Of course there's no conspiracy, only incompetent officials. These things never even out over a season. Some get hit harder than others. Us and Wolves' turn this season.

The PGMOL don't do themselves any favours with feeding the narrative of some secret squirrel members club by taking so long with releasing audio and being so hush hush around self governance. If there is nothing to hide why act as if you're hiding something?

Why do the media on the Webb and Owen thing get to have it before we the fans do too? We're the ones it affects. Surely the PGMOL should release it to all or Forest have the right to before a f**king broadcaster?

 

[Robertson]

I think it’s a case of when does mates backing mates become a “Conspiracy”.

I think we’re in mates backing mates territory really. Which doesn’t lend itself too well to performing a key role in a multi-billion dollar industry. They have to be more self-critical.

Ideally I’d like both better referees and less money sloshing around the sport of course.

 

[Captain Sinister]

View attachment 38745

Jesus H. Christ: SPELLING!!!!!!
It f***ing well matters.

 

[FLC]

Not Stuart Grainger!
If I remember the plot correctly, the chap eats small doses of arsenic to make himself sick, and to get his heiress wife tried and sentenced for attempted murder, but it all goes Pete Tong when he takes too much, she is delayed away from home and he snuffs it. She is found innocent… don’t try this at home

Ah come on - spoiler alert

 

[Any Time Now]

The officiating has been shit the decisions have been shit but unfortunately we've been just as shit for 90% of the season. The whole thing deserves highlighting but lets not use it to hide behind the fact we've been unreasonably poor regardless of the wank decisions. People saying we should be comfortably mid table, sorry but if you've seen a team that looks capable of fighting for ~45 points this season you've been watching different games to me

 

[Captain Sinister]

I don't think "corruption" necessarily means someone taking a bung.
Corruption means that equity, fairness, and legitimacy are cast to the winds for the benefit of an intersted party.
Atwell demonstrably cast equity, fairness, and legitimacy to the 4 winds for the benefit of an interested party (Luton Town F.C., of which he is a supporter).
With all the money, and nation-state egos at stake to cast aside equity, fairness, and legitimacy is tantemount to orruption, even if the perpetrator didn't take a bung.
And the amount of bung money in professional sport is directly proportional to the amount of money that success in that sport attracts.
Failing to correctly call a penalty in one incident in a game can be down to competence.
Failing to call 4 separate incidents correctly goes beyond the incompetent.

 

[vertigored]

The officiating has been shit the decisions have been shit but unfortunately we've been just as shit for 90% of the season. The whole thing deserves highlighting but lets not use it to hide behind the fact we've been unreasonably poor regardless of the wank decisions. People saying we should be comfortably mid table, sorry but if you've seen a team that looks capable of fighting for ~45 points this season you've been watching different games to me

Whether it’s deserved or not, if half the decisions that have been dubious went for us instead of against we’d probably have a few more points on the board.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Ah come on - spoiler alert

It's only a spoiler IF my recollection is correct.
And my memory gets worse by the day, so even I don't really know if my version of the plot is correct

 

[Any Time Now]

Whether it’s deserved or not, if half the decisions that have been dubious went for us instead of against we’d probably have a few more points on the board.

I don't disagree, same as if we'd looked after the books better we'd have a few more points on the board. It still doesn't change the fact we've been mostly poor regardless of other outside factors

 

[Redemption]

I don't think "corruption" necessarily means someone taking a bung.
Corruption means that equity, fairness, and legitimacy are cast to the winds for the benefit of an intersted party.
Atwell demonstrably cast equity, fairness, and legitimacy to the 4 winds for the benefit of an interested party (Luton Town F.C., of which he is a supporter).
With all the money, and nation-state egos at stake to cast aside equity, fairness, and legitimacy is tantemount to orruption, even if the perpetrator didn't take a bung.
And the amount of bung money in professional sport is directly proportional to the amount of money that success in that sport attracts.
Failing to correctly call a penalty in one incident in a game can be down to competence.
Failing to call 4 separate incidents correctly goes beyond the incompetent.

Corruption has a quite specific meaning.

It debases the language if we keep reinventing meanings.

Either people are alleging corruption, meaning that match officials are making decisions for personal gain or to elevate one team over another, or they’re not.

 

[Captain Sinister]

If we get a point given back from the appeal, it represents the equivalent of a draw against Man city.
If we get 3-points, it's like we beat the bastards!
Get no points back, and it is ok - no-one (other than my deluded wife) expects us to do anything but be soundly beaten by the unpunished cheating swine in light blue shirts.
There is beauty even in the dirt.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Corruption has a quite specific meaning.

It debases the language if we keep reinventing meanings.

Either people are alleging corruption, meaning that match officials are making decisions for personal gain or to elevate one team over another, or they’re not.

We shall have to agree to disagree.
I think your point is drawn far too narrowly.
And I agree with Lewis Carroll:

 

[Bobby The Brain]

Jesus H. Christ: SPELLING!!!!!!
It f***ing well matters.

Sorry Captin

 

[Captain Sinister]

Sorry Captin

Brilliant retort!

 

[Strummer]

We shall have to agree to disagree.
I think your point is drawn far too narrowly.
And I agree with Lewis Carroll:
View attachment 38748

Humpty Dumpty was a fat useless bastard who only had one job, and failed it miserably.

Bit like Howard Webb. And he looks like him as well.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Humpty Dumpty was a fat useless bastard who only had one job, and failed it miserably.

Bit like Howard Webb. And he looks like him as well.

The fat useless bastard in the Lewis Carroll story was quite right though...

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Humpty Dumpty was a fat useless bastard who only had one job, and failed it miserably.

Bit like Howard Webb. And he looks like him as well.

There goes me coffee!

 

[sammy the snake]

More broadly it’s used to describe one of the oldest tricks in the book used by people in power in order to stay there. Which is to ridicule anyone who may or not have legitimate grievances against them, in order to try and convince both them and other observers they are mad.

It’s a bitch of a tactic that usually works unless you’re very diligent. I question myself all the time professionally, that’s because I’m human… kinda. People and companies exploit this which is why.. when you’re right.. stick to your guns

You listening Forest?

 

[sammy the snake]

The officiating has been shit the decisions have been shit but unfortunately we've been just as shit for 90% of the season. The whole thing deserves highlighting but let’s not use it to hide behind the fact we've been unreasonably poor regardless of the wank decisions. People saying we should be comfortably mid table, sorry but if you've seen a team that looks capable of fighting for ~45 points this season you've been watching different games to me

Sure, I don’t think anyone is attempting to hide behind Forest inadequacies. If we had been winning games it’s unlikely we’d make such a media impact…. But that’s the point isn’t it? Those errors really have impacted in Forest losing games, not just one game either is it? Forest are simply asking for fairness otherwise the likes of Ipswich for instance have the shock of their lives incoming!

 

[Robertson]

I find it weird how determined some people are to be FURIOUS with the players all of the time that even when it’s provably the case they have been good enough so far to be five points clear, they still load all the blame squarely on their shoulders. Never mind all the whinging about the officials costing us another handful of points at the very least, and the effect all this has on morale.

 

[Redemption]

So VAR ...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1783376515616379236

If they had VAR over the PA speakers, would it change the crowd behaviours?

I'm wondering about...

1. In general, would there be less chanting?
2. Specifically, in relation to goals, would the atmosphere be more curtailed than it currently is?

 

[DocForest]

So VAR ...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1783376515616379236

If they had VAR over the PA speakers, would it change the crowd behaviours?

I'm wondering about...

1. In general, would there be less chanting?
2. Specifically, in relation to goals, would the atmosphere be more curtailed than it currently is?

I'm not sure it's necessary to relay the dialogue as it happens rugby style.
They could make alot of this go away by just announcing in the future that they're going to release the audios straight after the match to the clubs and media. Then it's up to the clubs to tell their fans whether they're ok with it.
All this "get back in your box and don't say a word" attitude to clubs, their staff and the paying public in general will continue to fan the flames for bias especially amongst Masters' "smaller clubs".
PSR isn't much different.
Really, what is wrong with a decent level of transparency ?

 

[REDDERS78]

I would have no interest in hearing during the game, I hate VAR so why would I want to listen to them?

I do however not understand why its not available immediately after a game, they video it anyway don't they? Why does it take over a week to send a media file, do everything to slow the process down AND claim part of the audio is missing. That's what's raising suspicion, not the fact you cant listen during games.

If VAR had VAR, they would have be f**ked!

 

[Redemption]

I'm not sure it's necessary to relay the dialogue as it happens rugby style.
They could make alot of this go away by just announcing in the future that they're going to release the audios straight after the match to the clubs and media. Then it's up to the clubs to tell their fans whether they're ok with it.
All this "get back in your box and don't say a word" attitude to clubs, their staff and the paying public in general will continue to fan the flames for bias especially amongst Masters' "smaller clubs".
PSR isn't much different.

Part of reasoning is what IFAB allows and doesn't allow.

In an interview on BBC Radio 5 live, that effectively blocks any positive plans by the PGMOL to broadcast the VAR live, Lukas Brud stated :

“I categorically say no, they shouldn’t. I was allowed to observe and see communication between match officials during a review and it’s quite a chaotic situation, not in a negative sense but there are many people talking at the same time and I think it would be counterproductive for anyone to listen to all those voices talking to each other.” He continued, “Then you have the VAR and the assistant VAR, the replay operators, the referee and maybe even the assistant referees and fourth official so all of a sudden, it becomes quite a chaotic experience. We have given the green light to test the announcement of decisions to bring a little more transparency to decision making, but we are not prepared, at this point, to open up communication live to the audience. We should not immediately start questioning the entire setup because in one of thousands of matches this situation has occurred.

Certainly we are going to improve if need be certain areas of VAR. Whether we need to solve an issue where humans made an error, let’s see.”

Really, what is wrong with a decent level of transparency ?

I'm all for transparency but I'm certain it won't come cost free and won't be the panacea everyone desires.

For me, lots of these rule changes come with downsides. People rarely like the downsides when it affects their team. Like PSR everyone was for it when it Everton first time around. But when it was Forest, we'll...

 

[Baronvon]

If VAR audio transparency became the norm and we got to hear the decisions as they were being made (or even shortly after), one thing I can definitely guarantee is that it would quickly become far more professional and, by extension, competent.

Because let's face it, the main reason they've not released any audio publicly from the Everton match is almost certainly on account of it being a dumpster fire of ineffectual twattery.