Snatchday 1: Nottingham Forest Vs the PGMOL

[Redemption]

More broadly it’s used to describe one of the oldest tricks in the book used by people in power in order to stay there. Which is to ridicule anyone who may or not have legitimate grievances against them, in order to try and convince both them and other observers they are mad.

Although sometimes, the paranoid and persecutorially deluded often feel they're being gaslighted when infact they are simply mad.

 

[Robertson]

Although sometimes, the paranoid and persecutorially deluded often feel they're being gaslighted when infact they are simply mad.

Correct. As any good acolyte to entrenched power structures would be the first to point out.

All part of the toolkit.

 

[Redemption]

Correct. As any good acolyte to entrenched power structures would be the first to point out.

All part of the toolkit.

Although sometime it's just a good friend who isn't part of any conspiracy and is just trying to have an honest word.

 

[Robertson]

Although sometime it's just a good friend who isn't part of any conspiracy and is just trying to have an honest word.

Yes, often in fact. Though if this good friend was trying to convince me that Forest and Wolve’s football matches this season had been refereed fairly and consistently i’d start to think they were the mental one.

 

[Redemption]

Yes, often in fact. Though if this good friend was trying to convince me that Forest and Wolve’s football matches this season had been refereed fairly and consistently i’d start to think they were the mental one.

One of the challenges of being a good friend in this situation is the constant deforming of the narrative to the persecutorial.

So many fans are now part of a mass hysteria event.

They don't want explanations; they want persecutorial narratives.

Here's the proof; if PGMOL came out today and held their hands up admitting that this season had seen a series of unconnected but catastrophic errors affecting Forest they wouldn't accept it.

They'd say it was proof of a cover-up.

 

[congo_red_49]

Just what is “gaslighting “?
There was a Stuart Grainger movie called Gaslight.

The term 'gaslighting' does indeed come from a movie - a British movie from 1940 (which itself was based on a 1938 play by Patrick Hamilton):-

As it refers to manipulating a person or a group of people, in a way similar to the way the protagonist in the movie was manipulated.

 

[Captain Sinister]

The term 'gaslighting' does indeed come from a movie - a British movie from 1940 (which itself was based on a 1938 play by Patrick Hamilton):-
View attachment 38741
As it refers to manipulating a person or a group of people, in a way similar to the way the protagonist in the movie was manipulated.

Not Stuart Grainger!
If I remember the plot correctly, the chap eats small doses of arsenic to make himself sick, and to get his heiress wife tried and sentenced for attempted murder, but it all goes Pete Tong when he takes too much, she is delayed away from home and he snuffs it. She is found innocent… don’t try this at home

 

[congo_red_49]

Not Stuart Grainger!
If I remember the plot correctly, the chap eats small doses of arsenic to make himself sick, and to get his heiress wife tried and sentenced for attempted murder, but it all goes Pete Tong when he takes too much, she is delayed away from home and he snuffs it. She is found innocent… don’t try this at home

Credit to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1940_film)) - plot for this one was:-

In Pimlico, London, Alice Barlow (Marie Wright) is murdered by an unknown man, who then ransacks her house, ripping her furniture apart as if desperately searching for something. The house remains empty for many years, until newlyweds Paul and Bella Mallen move in. Bella (Diana Wynyard) soon finds herself misplacing small objects; and, before long, Paul (Anton Walbrook) has her believing she is losing her sanity. B. G. Rough (Frank Pettingell), a former detective involved in the original murder investigation, begins to suspect him of Alice Barlow's murder.

Paul lights the gas lamps to search the closed-off upper floors, which causes the rest of the lamps in the house to dim slightly. When Bella comments on the lights' dimming, he tells her that she is imagining things. Bella is persuaded that she is hearing noises, unaware that Paul enters the upper floors from the house next door. The sinister interpretation of the change in light levels is part of a larger pattern of deception to which Bella is subjected, including berating her for losing a brooch he gave her which he actually took and hid inside his locked rolltop desk.

Rough gets wind of Paul's plan to have Bella certified insane and institutionalized so that he can carry on with Nancy, their promiscuous maid, and summons Bella's concerned cousin Vincent Ullswater for help in getting her out of Paul's grasp. After Paul verbally abuses Bella before leaving to attend a music hall show with Nancy, Rough comes to the house and reveals to Bella that Paul is really the wanted Louis Bauer, who has returned to the house to search for the rubies he was unable to find after murdering his aunt, Alice Barlow. Furthermore, due to Bauer's bigamous marriage to another woman in Australia, his marriage to Bella is invalid. Rough forces open Paul's desk in search of evidence that Paul is Bauer, interrupted when Bella sees the gaslight flicker shortly before Bauer returns to the house. Rough confronts him with their knowledge and Bauer mockingly opens the desk drawer which he is confident contains no evidence. Inside is Bella's missing brooch, and she reveals that the brooch has a secret compartment in which the rubies had been hidden. When the brooch is opened Alice Barlow's initials can be seen inside. Bella also tells Rough that she hid the rubies inside a vase on the mantelpiece. The cornered Bauer attacks them both with a chair, but is knocked unconscious by Rough. Bauer attempts to coerce Bella into freeing him from his restraints, but she denounces him at knifepoint before he is led away by the police.

 

[Robertson]

One of the challenges of being a good friend in this situation is the constant deforming of the narrative to the persecutorial.

So many fans are now part of a mass hysteria event.

They don't want explanations; they want persecutorial narratives.

Here's the proof; if PGMOL came out today and held their hands up admitting that this season had seen a series of unconnected but catastrophic errors affecting Forest they wouldn't accept it.

They'd say it was proof of a cover-up.

Yes exactly. You’re right. This lack of transparency and accountability is the grey area in which conspiracy theories thrive.

Forest fans, players and owners alike (and Wolves apparently) have seen with own eyes a long series of inexplicable decisions go against them this season. And because that could end up costing one of them a hundred million quid, and damage some of the other’s careers they want to know why. Which doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

It’s gaslighting to tell people that the PGMOL haven’t made a disproportionate amount of mistakes.

It’s definitely gaslighting to say people are hysterical for wanting answers. A word which of course has long been used to try and put uppity women back in their place.

I for one would be happy for the PGMOL to admit to cocking up as you suggest. Rather than trying to gaslight everyone

 

[Strummer]

Gaslight, you say?

 

[congo_red_49]

Gaslight, you say?

Yes, I did say.

 

[Redemption]

Yes exactly. You’re right. This lack of transparency and accountability is the grey area in which conspiracy theories thrive.

Forest fans, players and owners alike (and Wolves apparently) have seen with own eyes a long series of inexplicable decisions go against them this season. And because that could end up costing one of them a hundred million quid, and damage some of the other’s careers they want to know why. Which doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

It’s gaslighting to tell people that the PGMOL haven’t made a disproportionate amount of mistakes.

It’s definitely gaslighting to say people are hysterical for wanting answers. A word which of course has long been used to try and put uppity women back in their place.

I for one would be happy for the PGMOL to admit to cocking up as you suggest. Rather than trying to gaslight everyone

This is the epitome of victimhood.

"put uppity women back in their place." f***ing hell, , and you started with the "disproportionate".

Uppity women.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Credit to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1940_film)) - plot for this one was:-

I know I am not going mad, but according to Wikipaedia, Stewart Grainger never appeared in a movie called Gaslight!
He was in "Fanny by Gaslight".
And I am almost certain that the plot is along the lines of my synopsis above.
It was a movie my Mum and dad liked to watch every time it was on the Beeb.
I was very young when i last saw it, so my recollection may be a bit distorted.
I am going to have to find a copy of it to watch to see if it is my mind playing tricks on me.

 

[Notcher]

Just seen the overlap and what does Gary Neville do? Brings up a video clip of Steve Cook was on the balcony after the Wembley game. No context given that it was the day after and Cook hadn't been to bed and was still twatted from the night before. Gary Gaslight strikes again

 

[Robertson]

This is the epitome of victimhood.

"put uppity women back in their place." f***ing hell, , and you started with the "disproportionate".

Uppity women.

Erm… I was using the phrase uppity women ironically. Maybe I should have put ‘uppity women’ to make that clearer.

Yes - the term hysterical has long been used to try and diminish legitimate grievances of women that believe they are being shat upon, women that men in positions of power consider “uppity”. It’s practically the modern definition of gaslighting.

That better for you?

 

[Robertson]

This is the epitome of victimhood.

"put uppity women back in their place." f***ing hell, , and you started with the "disproportionate".

Uppity women.

PS: “the epitome of victimhood”

What the f*** does that even mean?
Sounds like something from GB news.

 

[Redemption]

Erm… I was using the phrase uppity women ironically. Maybe I should have put ‘uppity women’ to make that clearer.

Yes - the term hysterical has long been used to try and diminish legitimate grievances of women that believe they are being shat upon, women that men in positions of power consider “uppity”. It’s practically the modern definition of gaslighting.

That better for you?

Female Hysteria was an older term used to described a psychological state of an emotional woman, but 'mass hysteria' is not gendered.

I specifically used the term 'mass hysteria' as it connotes a communal response.

And in this case, the communal response is creating a nebulous victim out of the cosmos of Nottingham Forest; the club, the owner, the fans, etc. In this use of cosmos, I'm using it like in Greek philosophy as the thing which contains the Universe.

 

[Robertson]

Female Hysteria was an older term used to described a psychological state of an emotional woman, but 'mass hysteria' is not gendered.

I specifically used the term 'mass hysteria' as it connotes a a communal response.

Ok fine, carry on calling people that disagree with you hysterical if you think it helps make your point.

 

[Redemption]

Ok fine, carry on calling people that disagree with you hysterical if you think it helps make your point.

I'm saying what I think.

I'm watching people say there's a script, that's its a conspiracy to have us relegated; that this can be the only explanation.

That so many people beleive this to be what's going is looks like a outbreak of mass hysteria.

On another platform, someone said to me this morning it must be true because 90% of other club's fans agree with with Forest fans.

Surely, that's the evidence that says this isn't a conspiracy but cockup that effects every club?

I haven't told anyone to shut up or stop posting their opinions. Equally, I'm going to post what I think.

 

[Robertson]

I'm saying what I think.

I'm watching people say there's a script, that's its a conspiracy to have us relegated; that this can be the only explanation.

That so many people beleive this to be what's going is looks like a outbreak of mass hysteria.

On another platform, someone said to me this morning it must be true because 90% of other club's fans agree with with Forest fans.

Surely, that's the evidence that says this isn't a conspiracy but cockup that effects every club?

I haven't told anyone to shut up or stop posting their opinions. Equally, I'm going to post what I think.

I don’t think for a minute there’s a grand conspiracy to relegate Forest, I just think we (and Wolves by the look of it) have pissed the reffing fraternity off somehow and they’re taking every opportunity to give us the shitty end of the stick. This seems like by far the simplest and most obvious explanation to me. More plausible than ‘bad luck’ for a start.

And everyone who is saying “well they should stop complaining then they might start getting better decisions” is tacitly admitting that it’s potentially true, whether they realise it or not.

Some think the solution to this is, yeah, to stop complaining. Some, including our owner evidently don’t. My position is that whatever is happening they have to sort it out quickly, or I’ll lose interest.

 

[Bobby The Brain]

And in this case, the communal response is creating a nebulous victim out of the cosmos of Nottingham Forest; the club, the owner, the fans, etc. In this use of cosmos, I'm using it like in Greek philosophy as the thing which contains the Universe.

 

[Redemption]

View attachment 38745

A wanker award from you, feels like a privilege from an elite insider.

 

[Bobby The Brain]

A wanker award from you, feels like a privilege from an elite insider.

Just pulling ya plonker chief no need to get uppity.

 

[Redemption]

Just pulling ya plonker chief no need to get uppity.

Don't get sexist with me.

 

[Trents]

Of course there's no conspiracy, only incompetent officials. These things never even out over a season. Some get hit harder than others. Us and Wolves' turn this season.

The PGMOL don't do themselves any favours with feeding the narrative of some secret squirrel members club by taking so long with releasing audio and being so hush hush around self governance. If there is nothing to hide why act as if you're hiding something?