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Murillo Santiago Costa dos Santos

Notcher

Stuart Pearce
I get that he has all these wonderful attributes. But we're in a relegation battle, and have barely kept a clean sheet all season.... and he is our main defender. If we lose to Sheffield United, I don't want to hear anyone saying how "brilliant" Murillo was because he made a cross field pass, or broke up the play once. His main job is to stop the other team scoring, and he has barely done that all season.
He's stopped plenty of goals and his open play defending hasn't been bad at all. Your statement omits so many other factors for it to hold weight. You'd have to go back and look at how many of the goals were his fault or that he could have helped prevent from open play
 

thereds66

First Team Squad
He's stopped plenty of goals and his open play defending hasn't been bad at all. Your statement omits so many other factors for it to hold weight. You'd have to go back and look at how many of the goals were his fault or that he could have helped prevent from open play
Absolutely no denying that he has stopped a lot of goals, and has made a lot of eye catching, on the line headers too. But you cannot deny the fact that we are deep in a relegation battle, and cannot keep clean sheets, you may love him, but you can't deny that he is a major part of a defence which is collectively poor. A defence is a collective, so whilst Im not saying Murillo is solely to blame, I am saying that the fact he escapes blame and is lauded every game is baffling. His main job is to stop the other team scoring, and within almost every defensive unit this season, he has been unable to do so.
 

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
Poor old Murillo has barely had a consistent defence around him, all season, he has had more partners than Elizabeth Taylor, multiple different full-backs alongside and he’s had to cope with two or three different defensive formations and multiple different midfields in front of him, he’s still only ever played under 50 games at the highest level in Brazil and England, and he’s barely out of his teens.

Personally, in the circumstances, I think he’s done very well.
 

thereds66

First Team Squad
He's completely blameless, it's everyone else's fault.
 

dr_horse

Geoff Thomas
I get that he has all these wonderful attributes. But we're in a relegation battle, and have barely kept a clean sheet all season.... and he is our main defender. If we lose to Sheffield United, I don't want to hear anyone saying how "brilliant" Murillo was because he made a cross field pass, or broke up the play once. His main job is to stop the other team scoring, and he has barely done that all season.
Agreed. He's not made a load of obvious howlers but we've conceded too many goals where he's just not done the basics correctly.

He absolutely could have defended their first yesterday.

Not sure what he tried to do for the 2nd; he shows Haaland outside but he's too central for that and should be showing him inside where he has support (or should have had support - Niakhate lazy again). He's not close enough either way. Haaland jinks, Murillo trips over his own feet and Haaland is clean through.

He defensively he reminds me of an early Titus Bramble. I also remember how limited Morgan looked early days in the side. The question is can we afford to develop him if it loses us a goal a game, when we're only going to sell him as soon as he's solid anyway.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk
 

GOBIAS

Ian Bowyer
Agreed. He's not made a load of obvious howlers but we've conceded too many goals where he's just not done the basics correctly.

He absolutely could have defended their first yesterday.

Not sure what he tried to do for the 2nd; he shows Haaland outside but he's too central for that and should be showing him inside where he has support (or should have had support - Niakhate lazy again). He's not close enough either way. Haaland jinks, Murillo trips over his own feet and Haaland is clean through.

He defensively he reminds me of an early Titus Bramble. I also remember how limited Morgan looked early days in the side. The question is can we afford to develop him if it loses us a goal a game, when we're only going to sell him as soon as he's solid anyway.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk
The thing is he isn’t losing us a goal a game. He’s a good defender, his weakness is aerial ability mainly down to his lack of height, that is why he is best combined with boly. A lot of our attacks are also started by him, not directly often but he starts so much off.

Yesterday he did well to show Haaland on to his wrong foot but he was injured and seemed unable to make the required lunge and also sels probably came out too far for me.
 

Otis Redding

Try A Little Tenderness
He's completely blameless, it's everyone else's fault.
Ok, you clearly don't rate the lad as much as others on here do, which of course is your prerogative, but no one has said he's blameless. As has been pointed out though, he's a young kid and most can see the bigger picture that he needed regular football and as such he'd have dips in performances along the way, especially at a level as unforgiving as the PL. Ideally, he'd have had the experience of Felipe or Boly alongside him for far more games, and the manager would also have had opportunities to give him an occasional break, but events obviously haven't allowed that.

If we're fortunate enough to see him here again next season with a regular partner, I'm convinced we'll really see the benefit.
 

thereds66

First Team Squad
Ok, you clearly don't rate the lad as much as others on here do, which of course is your prerogative, but no one has said he's blameless. As has been pointed out though, he's a young kid and most can see the bigger picture that he needed regular football and as such he'd have dips in performances along the way, especially at a level as unforgiving as the PL. Ideally, he'd have had the experience of Felipe or Boly alongside him for far more games, and the manager would also have had opportunities to give him an occasional break, but events obviously haven't allowed that.

If we're fortunate enough to see him here again next season with a regular partner, I'm convinced we'll really see the benefit.
I rate him very highly, and think Forest would be silly to ask for any less than £50m for him. But I'm not someone who would be happy to be relegated because of a terrible defence, but it doesn't matter because we helped develop a Brazil defender for Manchester City or Arsenal.
 

JonnoSnr

Youth Team
Murillo is a top drawer prospect who I believe will end up at an elite Champions League level.

However, I'm not convinced he's what we need at this stage. I posted in another thread that I'd be open to a back 3 as Murillo could have more freedom but equally I would understand if we decided to go for something more 'solid', particularly in a back 4.
 

ARedChester

First Team Squad
Murillo isn't the problem. The shite goal keeper behind him for half the season was a real significant problem, as was the other constantly changing 4 or so players in midfield who didn't do their jobs and subsequnetly put Muillo and the defence under the pressure they endured was a huge problem.

He is a huge part of the answer to the Defence.

A mid PL team would be asking close to £80M+ for him in a year's time, £100M+ in 3 years.
 

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
I rate him very highly, and think Forest would be silly to ask for any less than £50m for him. But I'm not someone who would be happy to be relegated because of a terrible defence, but it doesn't matter because we helped develop a Brazil defender for Manchester City or Arsenal.
Murillo won't be the reason we were relegated though. Very few goals we have conceded are his fault and down to an error, and he saves plenty with his defending.

Not having Felipe available, almost entirely - and Boly for large chunks of the season - would be more contributory factors as they are experienced players with solid defensive attributes. Niakhate is left footed and also prone to the odd lapse so hasn't been used as much.

We have been playing a lot of the time since Afcon with Murillo and Omobamidele as the centre backs, both of them are like 21, whilst PL sides do have young CBs (Branthwaite is a good example and a similar age) playing 2 is almost unheard of, good as they are it probably hasn't helped as opposed to keeping more experienced players such as McKenna or Worrall around.

Set piece goals cost us almost every game, which is more than just the CBs at fault. Why did we have MGW, who is probably the smallest player on our team, marking their CB at a free kick?
 

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
Murillo was badly at fault with the Haarland goal... mind you, Haarland is simply not human.
He was injured though, got subbed pretty much straight after it. I don't think a fit Murillo would have been turned so easily but then this is also the best striker in the world.
 

Bob Fossil

Nottingham's dirty secret
Murillo is a top drawer prospect who I believe will end up at an elite Champions League level.

However, I'm not convinced he's what we need at this stage. I posted in another thread that I'd be open to a back 3 as Murillo could have more freedom but equally I would understand if we decided to go for something more 'solid', particularly in a back 4.
Agree.

Play him in a 3 but if we revert back to a 2 it's got to be Niakhate & Boly for the remainder of the season for me.

No room for error.
 

thereds66

First Team Squad
Murillo won't be the reason we were relegated though. Very few goals we have conceded are his fault and down to an error, and he saves plenty with his defending.

Not having Felipe available, almost entirely - and Boly for large chunks of the season - would be more contributory factors as they are experienced players with solid defensive attributes. Niakhate is left footed and also prone to the odd lapse so hasn't been used as much.

We have been playing a lot of the time since Afcon with Murillo and Omobamidele as the centre backs, both of them are like 21, whilst PL sides do have young CBs (Branthwaite is a good example and a similar age) playing 2 is almost unheard of, good as they are it probably hasn't helped as opposed to keeping more experienced players such as McKenna or Worrall around.

Set piece goals cost us almost every game, which is more than just the CBs at fault. Why did we have MGW, who is probably the smallest player on our team, marking their CB at a free kick?
I agree Murillo won't be the reason, if we get relegated. But he will certainly be a part of the reason, as will every other player in the team.
 

TurfT

Youth Team
He was injured though, got subbed pretty much straight after it. I don't think a fit Murillo would have been turned so easily but then this is also the best striker in the world.
Agree with that Statto. He was injured after he came out with the ball from two Citeh players but it was obvious watching his movement thereafter that he was crocked. Shouldn't have been on the pitch.
 

valspoodle

Steve Chettle
He is simply too short to be the main CB. He is excellent at breaking up play and moving the ball about, but the main job of a CB is height and muscle, simply to head the ball away and lean on attackers. Both beyond Murillo because of his size. Remember the boxing maxim, a good big one will always beat a good small one.
 

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
He is simply too short to be the main CB. He is excellent at breaking up play and moving the ball about, but the main job of a CB is height and muscle, simply to head the ball away and lean on attackers. Both beyond Murillo because of his size. Remember the boxing maxim, a good big one will always beat a good small one.
But by the same virtue VP, there is still mileage in the old Sweeper-Stopper combo; pair Murillo with a big beast of a no-nonsense „stopper“ who can head and kick it away, and you’ve got a decent combination.

Italy’s Fabio Cannavaro - a World Cup winner, amongst winning titles in Italy and Spain - was never the tallest or the most dominant, but he couldn‘t half read the game and ping a ball about.

Nearer to home, Chelsea and Brazil‘s Thiago Silva is an absolute Rolls-Royce of a defender, and he isn’t the biggest either, but his playmaking abilities and positioning make up for that.
 

Otis Redding

Try A Little Tenderness
But by the same virtue VP, there is still mileage in the old Sweeper-Stopper combo; pair Murillo with a big beast of a no-nonsense „stopper“ who can head and kick it away, and you’ve got a decent combination.

Italy’s Fabio Cannavaro - a World Cup winner, amongst winning titles in Italy and Spain - was never the tallest or the most dominant, but he couldn‘t half read the game and ping a ball about.

Nearer to home, Chelsea and Brazil‘s Thiago Silva is an absolute Rolls-Royce of a defender, and he isn’t the biggest either, but his playmaking abilities and positioning make up for that.
Agreed. With more experience his apparent limitations will become less obvious and less seemingly exploitable. Your point about pairing him with an effective, orthodox stopper is spot-on. That would have been the case had Felipe and Boly been available more often.
 

GOBIAS

Ian Bowyer
He is simply too short to be the main CB. He is excellent at breaking up play and moving the ball about, but the main job of a CB is height and muscle, simply to head the ball away and lean on attackers. Both beyond Murillo because of his size. Remember the boxing maxim, a good big one will always beat a good small one.
How is the weather back in the 1980’s Valspoodle?😅
 

valspoodle

Steve Chettle
The main thrust of my argument was obviously that Murillo is a good player (as was Des Walker) but we need strength and height allied to his exceptional qualities. Why are we always being done at set pieces? Because the big tall headers of the ball that we have, seem to have been injured during the season, leaving Murillo exposed with young Omo.
 
But by the same virtue VP, there is still mileage in the old Sweeper-Stopper combo; pair Murillo with a big beast of a no-nonsense „stopper“ who can head and kick it away, and you’ve got a decent combination.

Italy’s Fabio Cannavaro - a World Cup winner, amongst winning titles in Italy and Spain - was never the tallest or the most dominant, but he couldn‘t half read the game and ping a ball about.

Nearer to home, Chelsea and Brazil‘s Thiago Silva is an absolute Rolls-Royce of a defender, and he isn’t the biggest either, but his playmaking abilities and positioning make up for that.
The game is also less physical and route one when Cannavaro was in his pomp too. Franco Baresi is another good example, probably the best in the world at times in his career, he was 5'9". Ivan Cordoba, another great at CB and only 5'8". Bobby Moore was only 5'10". I think like others have said, he's only young and in his first full season and he's had far too much to do.

If it guaranteed he'd be here for the next 4 seasons I'd honestly sell Gibbs-White over him. MGW is great but he just cant can't shoot, we need goals from a number 10 in the 4231 and he doesn't provide any.
 
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