Why can't you question integrity?

[Forest65]

Maybe they were actualy really nice people and the 30 days was to give them time to disappear, thus saving them from having to be nasty.

However, red hot pokers and PGMOL.....

 

[gamble]

In a time when the great institution of the Post Office is being revealed to be a disgraceful hornet's net of corruption, why is it so outlandish to even suggest that the billion pound football industry might not be whiter than white?
When Nuno asked why it was OK to suggest that corruption was possible in those sneaky foreign countries, but not in dear 'Old Blighty,' he hit the nail on the head as to why so many people, get away with so much here.
This country is corrupt as feck from top to bottom, but where money is involved it reaches new levels.

I don't even think the first tweet was as bad as some made out, merely pointing out that it wouldn't be a good look if something untoward occurred, (It did.)

The hypocrisy of Neville at al is astounding but not surprising.

Probably been mentioned, but it is corrupt Mark Halsey confirmed it, and Mike Deane admitted to doing it.

Deane stated he didn't send Anthony Taylor to the screen when Cucurella had his hair pulled (violent conduct and a red) because Taylor had a rough game and it would embarrass him.....that corruption..

Halsey stated that the PGMOL told him how many cards to give, what to say after games if he "missed incidents" so they could retro ban etc.

Man City have taken a ref on holiday...

The fact Collymore and other are blind to the fact that in every walk of life there will be corrupt people is mind boggling.

 

[Timothy Pope]

In Garganta la Olla, about 10km from here they have a museum of the Inquisition. Next time I go there I'll see what they say.

Make sure you book about 4.2 weeks in advance

 

[JonnoSnr]

I highly doubt Attwell purposely didn't give the penalties because he's a Luton fan. I just think he's thoroughly incompetent at his trade, evidenced time and time again. It's not even his most recent gaffe any more.

Let's not spare Anthony Taylor either who is just as culpable.

 

[Notcher]

The simple answer to the thread question is, of course you can!!

Unfortunately questioning integrity comes with a lot of flack as we've found out but how else can you ever root out corruption? Unless something lands in your lap or someone confesses/whistle blows then all you have to go on is a number of things that simply don't feel/look right.

We've probably all been in situations ourselves where we know something is off by a number of things that don't add up or feel off but don't have anything concrete to prove it. Sometimes the only way to rooting it out is to put yourself in the difficult position of having to call it.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

 

[gedlingred]

The more pertinent question is 'why are we talking about integrity in football'?

It's the most partisan, tribal bias sport on the planet with gamesmanship and cheating accepted as the norm.

Add in the billions from the broadcasters and the ex player pundits running the game and it's corrupt as 'f**k'

But don't call out an 'elite' ref and his buddy in VAR for putting in a performance a three year old would be embarrassed by. How terrible.

 

[Two Weeks Away]

 

[fourth generation red]

I feel much more angry about what has happened this season than about when the referee gave. a penalty. against us in the European cup
semi final that put us out which was. clearly. not one...it was later revealed he had been. bribed.

id be angry. even if we weren't involved in relegation.....this consistent injustice. has taken away the fun of. watching sport.....and I've always been a take the. rough with the smooth. kind of person

 

[Malwood]

I remember laughing when someone me that Jimmy Savile was a wrong 'un, and there was a culture to cover up his and others crimes at the BBC. Don't be daft, I thought. You're a tin foil hat guy, I said. How could there possibly be organised criminality going on for years? Someone would have blown the whistle.

 

[Col Steve Austin]

It would be more of a surprise if there wasn't. Refs make what, £40k/year? For that they're in charge of matches worth millions and take dogs abuse for the privilege.

Add onto that the ego of most of them will probably mean they think they are significantly underpaid, particularly those who like to be the star of the show, and add onto that the thousands of bad actors in the sport - dodgy owners, agents, betting companies etc.

If not a single match in the premier league this season was affected by corruption, that would be the bigger surprise.

 

[YellowBelly Red]

It would be more of a surprise if there wasn't. Refs make what, £40k/year? For that they're in charge of matches worth millions and take dogs abuse for the privilege.

Add onto that the ego of most of them will probably mean they think they are significantly underpaid, particularly those who like to be the star of the show, and add onto that the thousands of bad actors in the sport - dodgy owners, agents, betting companies etc.

If not a single match in the premier league this season was affected by corruption, that would be the bigger surprise.

There are many variables but Premier League refs make around £1500 per match, with VAR earning £850.

I'm assuming that all expenses are covered as well.

Mike Dean got over £200K for his last season.

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

Because rich people make the rules.

What rubbish.
Incompetent people make the rules and they come from all backgrounds

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

I don't think he should have ever been in the Prem, ever. I've never understood how he got to that level. He's always been bad.

Now, in terms of the integrity of the referees, en masse, there is no way in hell they are all collectively told to give decisions to certain clubs. I think what Halsey is alluding to (and more about him later) is that some wise fella probably told a room full of refs that when they are making calls against Wenger and SAF and Jose they had better make sure they get it right or these guys would rip them to shreds in the media the next day. Which we all know happened many times with SAF, and Jose, and Wenger. Mourinho made one of the greatest refs quit (Frisk) after making false insinuations about him after a game against Barcelona (the ensuing death threats from Chelsea fans forced Frisk out). And Frisk was an outstanding referee. And as for Halsey---I recall a game at Old Trafford where Van DE Gouw (sp?) went off injured, their third string comes in, and a few minutes later hauls down an attacker in the area for a PK and what should have been a sending off. Halsey didn't even give the keeper a card (it might have been Taibi). United would have been hooped. Halsey bottled an easy call big time. So anything he says about any other referee holds zero water with me.

He got there because there are a lot worse than him in the EFL - which is a frightening prospect if the worst happens

 

[wallya]

I started the thread because the football authorities and media were clear that you should not imply any doubts about the integrity or honesty of those involved in football in this country. Society, particularly where money is involved is corrupt and usually hides in plain sight, relying on everyone to play the game.

Is it possible that a referee has gambling debts or is open to blackmail? Yes, so everything has to be considered. Have we been on the end of worse decisions since Clattenburg was appointed? Yes. Is it possible that a couple of refs got together after a course, sat down with a cup of coffee and chatted about Forest and him? resulting, perhaps in biased decisions. Not absolute corruption maybe.

I am fortunate enough to be involved in football media, and can tell you categorically that if you heard players talking about the game, you wouldn't be so naive. All players think some refs are bent! And if just a small percentage of the stories you hear about players is true, you might watch the game through a different lens.

 

[alabamared]

It would be more of a surprise if there wasn't. Refs make what, £40k/year? For that they're in charge of matches worth millions and take dogs abuse for the privilege.

Add onto that the ego of most of them will probably mean they think they are significantly underpaid, particularly those who like to be the star of the show, and add onto that the thousands of bad actors in the sport - dodgy owners, agents, betting companies etc.

If not a single match in the premier league this season was affected by corruption, that would be the bigger surprise.

They have a base salary of £40K per year plus a payment for every game they officiate. Averege salary is £105K per year so they earn in one year what your average Prem player earns in a week. Of course that can be boosted hugely by their'guest' appearances in the Saudi leagues.
So being the lowest paid guy on the field can leave open to wanting a bigger slice of the pie.
So should we pay reffs more? No pay the players less!

 

[Robertson]

Of course that can be boosted hugely by their'guest' appearances in the Saudi leagues.

Also matches in UAE, Qatar etc.

A situation that is in no way open to corruption of course. The encouragement to make decisions in a certain direction need not be overt.

 

[alabamared]

I started the thread because the football authorities and media were clear that you should not imply any doubts about the integrity or honesty of those involved in football in this country. Society, particularly where money is involved is corrupt and usually hides in plain sight, relying on everyone to play the game.

Is it possible that a referee has gambling debts or is open to blackmail? Yes, so everything has to be considered. Have we been on the end of worse decisions since Clattenburg was appointed? Yes. Is it possible that a couple of refs got together after a course, sat down with a cup of coffee and chatted about Forest and him? resulting, perhaps in biased decisions. Not absolute corruption maybe.

I am fortunate enough to be involved in football media, and can tell you categorically that if you heard players talking about the game, you wouldn't be so naive. All players think some refs are bent! And if just a small percentage of the stories you hear about players is true, you might watch the game through a different lens.

Interesting. The thing that concerns me is the histrionics we have seen from the media and the establishment suggests to me that they are proteting a little too much.
The sensible response would have been 'OK you may have a point we will investigate and get back to you' instead we get this wall of enraged indignation.
Also I am not sure it is coffee the refs would have sat down over!

 

[valspoodle]

Every man has his price, they say. And they are not wrong, whether it be financial or otherwise.

We all claim moral superiority, but when it comes down to it, we all bend.

And I don't mean mighty decisions of state, but small things which might seem unimportant, but a little white lie here or a small misjudgent there won't matter, will it?

 

[Grenville 1898]

I don’t think anyone is debating the good Captain‘s explanation that those called before the Inquisition got at least some notice, it’s more that when they got there, maybe what they didn’t expect was a red-hot poker up the arse, the thumbscrews, the rack, and many other amusing tortures that Tomas de Torquemada and his gang were experts at applying?

Are these guys connected to the Black Monks of St Herod headed up by the Bishop of Bath and Wells?

 

[Red Dog in a Forest]

It would be more of a surprise if there wasn't. Refs make what, £40k/year? For that they're in charge of matches worth millions and take dogs abuse for the privilege.

Add onto that the ego of most of them will probably mean they think they are significantly underpaid, particularly those who like to be the star of the show, and add onto that the thousands of bad actors in the sport - dodgy owners, agents, betting companies etc.

If not a single match in the premier league this season was affected by corruption, that would be the bigger surprise.

It’s a fantastic wage if the jobs done right. It’s not even a full-time job.

Is it that difficult to make an on field decision, then utilise VAR to assist if you’ve got it wrong? No, it’s bloody easy to do.

What is difficult is for the PGMOL to admit they give directives and / or the referees to be seen as making a mistake.

They are being told to be pantomime villains. Some of them revel in it.

 

[PynchonForest]

There are many variables but Premier League refs make around £1500 per match, with VAR earning £850.

I'm assuming that all expenses are covered as well.

Mike Dean got over £200K for his last season.

Refs make more than 40K if they ref in the top level. I think it varies between 100K to 250K. Which, considering what the players and managers make, and the intense scrutiny and pressure referees are always under, is peanuts.

 

[JonnoSnr]

Also matches in UAE, Qatar etc.

A situation that is in no way open to corruption of course. The encouragement to make decisions in a certain direction need not be overt.

Indeed, I don't see anything wrong with them going over there to earn a few quid. Luckily for the integrity of the Premier League none of these ultra-rich Gulf states have any involvement with English clubs.

Oh wait...

 

[fourth generation red]

it doesn't really matter how much money you have....some people will always be willing to do. something for more.
im not saying anyone has been corrupt here, but I do think that the attitude of. saying it could never happen doesn't help anyone

 

[ubik]

As I have explained many times before when people us this captioned picture, everyone whos put before the Spanish Inquisition knew about it at least 30 days before having to appear.
The Spanish Inquisition was required by the Pope to give those to be inquisitored at least 30 days written notice.

Surely you're not questioning the integrity of Monty Python?

I feel my moral universe dissolving.

 

[Bryn Gunn]

In a time when the great institution of the Post Office is being revealed to be a disgraceful hornet's net of corruption, why is it so outlandish to even suggest that the billion pound football industry might not be whiter than white?
When Nuno asked why it was OK to suggest that corruption was possible in those sneaky foreign countries, but not in dear 'Old Blighty,' he hit the nail on the head as to why so many people, get away with so much here.
This country is corrupt as feck from top to bottom, but where money is involved it reaches new levels.

I don't even think the first tweet was as bad as some made out, merely pointing out that it wouldn't be a good look if something untoward occurred, (It did.)

The hypocrisy of Neville at al is astounding but not surprising.

Cancel culture. Tow the line or get silenced.
We are wrong uns, a Peter Hitchens of a football club. There is no room for discourse here, big money is involved and a shitkicker club like Forest have no place in speaking out. We will be punished and the media will do their best to see that it is done.

Delete the thread, silence this man, he’s a conspiracist.