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Snatchday 1: Nottingham Forest Vs the PGMOL

Notcher

Notcher

Stuart Pearce
Baronvon said:
It's got to the stage where I don't even bother getting my hopes up when a Forest player gets fouled in the area. The ref isn't going to give it, VAR aren't going to give it (or even look at it) and we'll end up losing. As you say, what's the point?

I know performances haven't been great, but I honestly can't blame the players for losing faith. Anyone who's played Sunday league football as a kid will have experienced their fair share of refs who are clearly in favour of the other team and won't give your lot any decisions whatsoever. You can try all you want, when you're chasing the game and your striker gets taken out in the box for the third time only to get nothing, you can't help but lose hope.
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When that third incident happened I actually started laughing. I knew it wasn't going to be given and I knew that VAR wasn't going to overturn it. I got up laughing and went to make a coffee. My Mrs has really got into Forest over the last couple of years and she said I see what you mean now, I've seen it for myself week after week.
 
M

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Statto said:
Yes, that was an absolute farce.

And at the end of it all after VAR couldn't decide that it was a penalty it wasn't given to us at all.

Surely if it's hand ball and VAR can't decide if it's in the box or not then it's a free kick to Forest on the edge of the area (if outside) or a pen (if inside). Didn't they give a goal kick?
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Yes they did.
 
Haych

Haych

John Robertson
I truely believe that before appointing Clattenburg the bad decisions were purely down to complete incompetence from the officials.

When Clattenburg was appointed it felt to me that things changed, it may not be on purpose but the refs have that in the back of their minds that were trying to make them look daft, (I mean they do that themself) it is effecting their decision making IMO and we are getting shafted even more.
 
Robertson

Robertson

Viv Anderson
Notcher said:
When that third incident happened I actually started laughing. I knew it wasn't going to be given and I knew that VAR wasn't going to overturn it. I got up laughing and went to make a coffee. My Mrs has really got into Forest over the last couple of years and she said I see what you mean now, I've seen it for myself week after week.
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Pretty much exactly the same here 😂. Couldn’t be bothered to focus on the rest of the match properly after that.

As someone said above, whatever the club do and don’t say about it in public, it has to demoralise the players to a degree, however much they are being paid.
 
Listen 'ere young man

Listen 'ere young man

Jack Burkitt
I would put all the sky and Premier league paid up and aligned mouthpieces like Carragher, Neville, Lineker, Shearer etc on mute.

They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them.



Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk
 
Project Zeus

Project Zeus

Steve Chettle
M

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Beeston said:
Bit surprised by this one. Dated 15thApril
www.espn.co.uk

How VAR decisions have affected every Premier League club in 2023-24

We're collating a league table of overturned VAR decisions in 2023-24. Who will benefit most over the course of the Premier League season?
www.espn.co.uk www.espn.co.uk
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It's nonsense.

Our key decisions apparently are:

Lyle Taylor disallowed goal for Burnley.
Gakpo scoring in the 90th minute when Liverpool were 3-0 up.
And two things in the Spurs game which didn't affect the outcome at all.

It's only reviewing when VAR gets involved and makes no allowances for things which had no impact like a 90th minute goal to go from 3-0 to 4-0. Who cares? Where's the analysis when VAR can't be arsed? When those lack of action moments are when we're still in the game? What's the impact of bad decisions our actual points total rather than just a sub-total tally of decisions.

Stuff like this is just pure gaslighting.
 
Robertson

Robertson

Viv Anderson
Beeston said:
Bit surprised by this one. Dated 15thApril
www.espn.co.uk

How VAR decisions have affected every Premier League club in 2023-24

We're collating a league table of overturned VAR decisions in 2023-24. Who will benefit most over the course of the Premier League season?
www.espn.co.uk www.espn.co.uk
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It's because it's bollocks. It assumes VAR is correct at all times, when it clearly isn't. Also several of the biggest decisions to go against us (Boly, Liverpool restart) are outside the remit of VAR, we are told.
 
T

toffeeblue9

A. Trialist
Haych said:
I truely believe that before appointing Clattenburg the bad decisions were purely down to complete incompetence from the officials.

When Clattenburg was appointed it felt to me that things changed, it may not be on purpose but the refs have that in the back of their minds that were trying to make them look daft, (I mean they do that themself) it is effecting their decision making IMO and we are getting shafted even more.
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For what it's worth, Clattenburg was responsible for the only refereeing performance I've ever seen with my own two eyes that I thought could have been described as "corrupt". He followed that up after the game with *allegedly* telling David Moyes (our manager at the time), "You can't give a penalty against Liverpool in the last minute". Moyes went on live TV immediately afterwards and claimed the refereeing had been biased. He was, predictably, charged by the PL but then charges were dropped and it was all hushed up and Clattenburg didn't referee another Everton game for years. It was over 6 years before he was seen back at Goodison.

I find the hypocrisy of Clattenburg being front and centre of this whole "corruption" thing at the minute a little bit galling
 
Ashley

Ashley

Steve Chettle
Project Zeus said:
Stupid metrics. It's only looking at what VAR reviews.

All of our grievances are aimed at things that VAR hasn't reviewed.

Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
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You just know there are going to be at least a few incidents at the weekend that aren't going to be looked at by VAR, because its a Sky Sports Six side. And you know that if we do somehow threaten City in anyway, VAR will immediately come to the rescue.

It's all so predictable, and boring.
 
Baronvon

Baronvon

Jack Burkitt
Beeston said:
Bit surprised by this one. Dated 15thApril
www.espn.co.uk

How VAR decisions have affected every Premier League club in 2023-24

We're collating a league table of overturned VAR decisions in 2023-24. Who will benefit most over the course of the Premier League season?
www.espn.co.uk www.espn.co.uk
Click to expand...

Misses off far too many decisions. Misses the Awoniyi penalty claim against Newcastle (in which he was essentially fouled twice), the Williams penalty claim against West Ham, the clear red card Brighton didn't receive, etc, etc, etc.

It essentially only includes decisions where VAR overturned the on field decision. The vast majority of our issues have been caused by a ref getting a decision horribly wrong - and VAR somehow failing to intervene.
 
I

Ian Moore Gone Little

First Team Squad
Louth Red said:
Why did Atwell not refuse his appointment on Sunday?

As well as his incompetence as a referee and VAR official, he showed his arrogance by not stepping aside.

After Forest raised this issue ahead of the game PGMOL should have talked to Atwell and switched him to another game. There were four PL games on Sunday - presumably four pairs of VAR officials at Bletchley Park. Not difficult to make a change.
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No wonder the whole thing’s a bit of an enigma…
 
Ashley

Ashley

Steve Chettle
Robertson said:
It's because it's bollocks. It assumes VAR is correct at all times, when it clearly isn't. Also several of the biggest decisions to go against us (Boly, Liverpool restart) are outside the remit of VAR, we are told.
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I'm sure if a Sky Sports Six side were on the end of these decisions, they would magically become under VARs remit all of a sudden.

Much like FFP/PSR/whatever its called this week, they make it up as they go along.
 
Robertson

Robertson

Viv Anderson
toffeeblue9 said:
For what it's worth, Clattenburg was responsible for the only refereeing performance I've ever seen with my own two eyes that I thought could have been described as "corrupt". He followed that up after the game with *allegedly* telling David Moyes (our manager at the time), "You can't give a penalty against Liverpool in the last minute". Moyes went on live TV immediately afterwards and claimed the refereeing had been biased. He was, predictably, charged by the PL but then charges were dropped and it was all hushed up and Clattenburg didn't referee another Everton game for years. It was over 6 years before he was seen back at Goodison.

I find the hypocrisy of Clattenburg being front and centre of this whole "corruption" thing at the minute a little bit galling
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Well, the thought has occurred to me that the reason everyone in the business seems to be losing their minds over us appointing Clattenberg is because he "know's where the bodies are buried", as they say. Then the nurse brings me a cup of tea and I forget about it :LOL: .
 
Robertson

Robertson

Viv Anderson
Ashley said:
I'm sure if a Sky Sports Six side were on the end of these decisions, they would magically become under VARs remit all of a sudden.

Much like FFP/PSR/whatever its called this week, they make it up as they go along.
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Exactly. People act like the rules surrounding VAR are handed down on stone tablets. (when it suits them)
 
Cortez the Killer

Cortez the Killer

Impressive member
It seems quite clear to me that the rules (or laws of the game) seem deliberately open to interpretation, rather than black and white, which makes most things with the exception of offside to have a degree of subjectivity. That's why there is no consistency and it's why refs have room to apply bias towards the incidents. No one can prove anything untoward has gone on, unless statistically over a long period there are trends in errors, etc. We're probably close to that point now.

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk
 
Baronvon

Baronvon

Jack Burkitt
PlayedOnGrass said:
Awoniyi penalty against Newcastle @ 2-2 and controlling the game
Massive 3 points stolen
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Not to mention, after being somehow denied that penalty, Newcastle then went up the other end to go 3-2 up.

It's not just a case that bad decisions are going against us, a huge chunk of them are at such key points in the game. Imagine how the atmosphere at Goodison would have shifted in our favour if we'd have got the Reyna penalty to go 1-0 up - days after they've just been shafted 6-0. Or got either of the two absolutely stonewall shouts and brought the game back to 1-1 with the momentum in our favour.

We could have easily beaten Bournemouth at home (MGW shot cleared off the line at 2-2). Imagine what we could have done if we hadn't been playing with 10 men virtually all game on account of one of the most baffling decisions of all time.
 
Red Echo

Red Echo

Youth Team
PlayedOnGrass said:
Awoniyi penalty against Newcastle @ 2-2 and controlling the game
Massive 3 points stolen
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I'd forgotten about that one. That incident should've been a showcase of the purpose of VAR, as I recall it looking like a bit of a flop in real-time, but was a clear foul when you looked a bit closer.
 
REDDERS78

REDDERS78

Jack Armstrong
toffeeblue9 said:
For what it's worth, Clattenburg was responsible for the only refereeing performance I've ever seen with my own two eyes that I thought could have been described as "corrupt". He followed that up after the game with *allegedly* telling David Moyes (our manager at the time), "You can't give a penalty against Liverpool in the last minute". Moyes went on live TV immediately afterwards and claimed the refereeing had been biased. He was, predictably, charged by the PL but then charges were dropped and it was all hushed up and Clattenburg didn't referee another Everton game for years. It was over 6 years before he was seen back at Goodison.

I find the hypocrisy of Clattenburg being front and centre of this whole "corruption" thing at the minute a little bit galling
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Clattenburg isn't at the centre of it though? He's employed to give his opinion.

The appointment of Clattenburg was a move by Forest (following their grievances with previous decisions) to push back at the PGMOL which basically holds refs more accountable because they are being scrutinised by someone qualified to do so. This was part 1 of where we find ourselves today, and still nothing has changed. Apart from the fact they are now not even trying to hide the way they behave of course.

A one off experience with a referee is hardly reason to suggest he's not allowed opinion a decade later to be honest.
 
Baronvon

Baronvon

Jack Burkitt
Red Echo said:
I'd forgotten about that one. That incident should've been a showcase of the purpose of VAR, as I recall it looking like a bit of a flop in real-time, but was a clear foul when you looked a bit closer.
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Exactly - he was arguably fouled twice. Not to mention Dubravka clearly moves to block his path and initiate the final contact.
 
Flaggers

Flaggers

May not be the best moderator on LTLF, but he's...
LTLF Minion
toffeeblue9 said:
If it's just the one, you'd hope it would at least be the 3rd one which was, by general consensus, the most blatant of the three
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I'd put a small wager on it not being that one that they look at on the show, but the 1st one.
 
JohnnyCarey

JohnnyCarey

Viv Anderson
toffeeblue9 said:
Can I ask a couple of honest questions? As an Everton fan, I feel we've not had the rub of the green in a lot of instances of VAR reviews this season, but clearly we were very much on the fortunate side of what happened on Sunday.

Firstly do you really think that this is corruption? The Luton stuff and some of the subsequent comments I've read make me think that there's at least a small number of people who think that the league/PGMOL has conspired against Forest somehow here

Secondly, what's to be gained from the statements? I can accept that the Attwell issue is a fair one, but wouldn't this have been better to have been made in private and then addressed at the next PL meeting or whatever? The statement effectively calls into question the integrity of an official, even if subsequent statements have tried to play that down.

I think the danger here is that public opinion would have been on your side given you had three decisions go against you in a 6 pointer in a nationally televised game. The subsequent statement has flipped that and public opinion, led by the likes of Neville, Carragher, Shearer etc is now firmly against you. I've no idea if that counts for anything at all, but it would seem to make whatever your objective is more difficult to achieve.
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I actually think all the questions you ask are fair ones. Forest had the moral high ground but jumped off it by making (in essence) an allegation of corruption against an individual that could never be proven. It was utterly counter-productive because it distracted from the core issue, which is not whether a particular official supports a particular club but the way the whole system is both utterly incompetent and innately biased towards the big clubs. If we were going to take on the role of brave truth-tellers, we needed to stick with truths we can stand over.
 
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