Snatchday 1: Nottingham Forest Vs the PGMOL

[Templeton]

There is some complete delusional stuff being written here. The Premier League aren't scared of Forest or Marinakis, we're just a little yappy dog to them, soon be gone and replaced by other relegation fodder.

All we have done is made a big noise, like a club having a temper tantrum. Yes we will get a couple of days in the media perhaps, but this will all die down after a couple of days, no one will care or do anything because next weekend will come around and everyone and all the media will be focussed on that.

All Forest have done with this statement is likely make things worse in the long run. Put it this way, if someone continually bad-mouthed you and your mates would you look kindly on them? Of course not.

Considering our options, what is that rubbish supposed to mean? Taking action against PGMOL because an official dared to have a different opinion to someone else, good look getting far with that. The only other option is to not play in the Premier League, and we're already doing a pretty good job of taking that option.

 

[Mostly Donkey]

And I am sure he will.

I think, the Premier League are absolutely terrified that Marinakis‘ frankly bonkers approach and completely not giving a f*** threatens to upset the cozy hegemony of the so-called „Sky Six“, and - let us face it - that is what the PL base their multi-billion quid television revenue on.

It’s not in their interest to have such a loose cannon running around, because he’s a disruptive influence.

And clearly, they don’t want that.

And Man U are looking increasingly like a basket case that might not deliver a golden egg next year. They've managed to reach 7th but might not keep it. Sky and the big 6 don't need another Brighton coming in and rocking the boat. Neither do the owners that are making tidy profit from clubs they have left in massive debt while they extract cash.

 

[Rubics]

The approach up until yesterday has got us nowhere, letters of apology but the refing teams getting worse.
The tweat has now been viewed 36 million times, put into context the tweet that FIFA put out when Argentina won the World Cup had about 600 thousand views.
Look at the comments under each article about yesterday - over 90% backing us.
Will it achieve anything positive for us - don’t know, but if we hadn’t put it out all the talk today would have been Man U beating (robbing) cov and the Liverpool / klopp love in for beating Fulham.
Finally, playing better with a bit of passion would get us further, but yesterday we were robbed - even one pen changes the game.

 

[Bobby The Brain]

Corrupt or not, the system is not fit for purpose.

The whole ‘clear and obvious error’ approach paints everything in shades of grey. It basically allows the VAR team to not take decisions and protect their mates on the field, with the added benefit of diluting responsibility just far enough that the process gets the criticism not the individuals involved.

I’ve worked in anti corruption - in Asia, where in some parts it’s a tradition - and you concentrate on removing the opportunity in a process for the best results. Better to have a bad egg with no opportunity than good eggs being tempted.

And this is where I’m at with VAR. They have all the cameras and angles to make a more informed decision than a ref who’s seen it once, whilst running, looking through a crowd of players. Yet, their first consideration is the refs initial decision. Bonkers.

There’s simply no accountability. It sounds extreme but why not isolate the VAR official, don’t let them see the game and don’t tell them the refs decision, just show them the angles and get them to make a decision. If their decision is the same as the on field ref then play on, if not, call the ref to the screen. Not perfect but removes the ridiculous safety net and grey area of ‘clear and obvious error’.

 

[Strummer]

There is some complete delusional stuff being written here. The Premier League aren't scared of Forest or Marinakis, we're just a little yappy dog to them, soon be gone and replaced by other relegation fodder.

All we have done is made a big noise, like a club having a temper tantrum. Yes we will get a couple of days in the media perhaps, but this will all die down after a couple of days, no one will care or do anything because next weekend will come around and everyone and all the media will be focussed on that.

All Forest have done with this statement is likely make things worse in the long run. Put it this way, if someone continually bad-mouthed you and your mates would you look kindly on them? Of course not.

Considering our options, what is that rubbish supposed to mean? Taking action against PGMOL because an official dared to have a different opinion to someone else, good look getting far with that. The only other option is to not play in the Premier League, and we're already doing a pretty good job of taking that option.

Every dog has his day.

Maybe Forest‘s is coming?

 

[T.B.T.]

The more I think about it the more I believe that we, Forest, should stand up for ourselves.

Why should we just ‘accept’ obvious wrong decisions made which have clearly affected our games and results and could potentially affect our longevity in the Premier League?

The way it’s been done may not have been ideal but we’re running out of time.

If we are relegated this season then be it because we’re not going enough and not because there’s a hidden political agenda by those who have the power of making incorrect officiating decisions.

 

[GreeksBearingGifts]

Two out of the three penalties are blatant, and the third is in the "it can certainly be given" category. A VAR not giving one of them would be normal; not giving any of them suggests bias (the announcement does not speak of corruption, so there's no danger of a libel case). If you had already asked for a replacement before the game, the VAR's performance enhances the assumption of bias. Whether the official announcement was the right reaction or not depends on several factors unknown to me. It's a power game and whether you, I, or Gary Neville like it or not is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[Flaggers]

Peter "I agree with the on-field referee and VAR" Banks - TNT Sports' Refereeing Consultant (I note it's ok for sky and tnt sport to have a refereeing consultant but when an actual team gets one it's derided by many) on the radio this morning... "...you mustn't call into question an official's impartiality"

Well, Peter, it's precisely because people like you say nobody must, that somebody should.

 

[Notcher]

And I am sure he will.

I think, the Premier League are absolutely terrified that Marinakis‘ frankly bonkers approach and completely not giving a f*** threatens to upset the cozy hegemony of the so-called „Sky Six“, and - let us face it - that is what the PL base their multi-billion quid television revenue on.

It’s not in their interest to have such a loose cannon running around, because he’s a disruptive influence.

And clearly, they don’t want that.

This is exactly the post which answers @PynchonForest question on another thread

 

[Masuka]

We are constantly told we shouldn’t call into question officials impartiality but never told why we shouldn’t.

 

[Notcher]

There is some complete delusional stuff being written here. The Premier League aren't scared of Forest or Marinakis, we're just a little yappy dog to them, soon be gone and replaced by other relegation fodder.

All we have done is made a big noise, like a club having a temper tantrum. Yes we will get a couple of days in the media perhaps, but this will all die down after a couple of days, no one will care or do anything because next weekend will come around and everyone and all the media will be focussed on that.

All Forest have done with this statement is likely make things worse in the long run. Put it this way, if someone continually bad-mouthed you and your mates would you look kindly on them? Of course not.

Considering our options, what is that rubbish supposed to mean? Taking action against PGMOL because an official dared to have a different opinion to someone else, good look getting far with that. The only other option is to not play in the Premier League, and we're already doing a pretty good job of taking that option.

It depends whether the person "badmouthing" was correct or not. I might have been thinking the same thing and not felt strong or brave enough to say something myself, but now I've found an allie I might think about speaking up myself

 

[JonnoSnr]

Having slept on the whole thing I'm glad that the tweet was sent. At first I cringed but the more I think about it the more I think it's right that we have called it out.

The Greeks have many flaws, we all know this. This is a highly emotional, impulsive message that is very much in the Marinakis M.O. Probably the sort of thing that is acceptable in Greece but here.

But you know what...f*** all that. I'm sick and tired of the PGMOL hiding behind their statements and bullshit. I'm sick and tired of missing out on points because of routine decisions not being given. Decisions that the top teams get every week for them.

I just wish there was as much fight on the pitch as there clearly is off it.

 

[enlightened]

It sounds extreme but why not isolate the VAR official, don’t let them see the game and don’t tell them the refs decision, just show them the angles and get them to make a decision. If their decision is the same as the on field ref then play on, if not, call the ref to the screen. Not perfect but removes the ridiculous safety net and grey area of ‘clear and obvious error’.

This is a great idea.

 

[Notcher]

I mentioned yesterday that these were the rules and that Jeff Winter had said so. Michael Oliver previously here also confirms the same thing. There is a massive issue here if the PGMOL have broken their own rules.

 

[Alan Akbah]

If Attwell had had anything about him he'd have reclused himself.

That said I don't want to go down whining. I want us to stay up fighting and with two fingers showing firmly in the direction of the PL, PGMOL.

 

[SouthManchesterTree]

Many in the press are focusing on whether Forest have complained with sufficient decorum, rather than the substance of the complaint itself.

We were rubbish yesterday, but penalties change games.

VAR was used yesterday to ruin a historic semi-final, and then ignored in a crucial relegation battle

I’d rather it was ditched - I’m happy to accept onfield decisions rather than this selectively applied mess

 

[andyd]

If Attwell had had anything about him he'd have reclused himself.

That said I don't want to go down whining. I want us to stay up fighting and with two fingers showing firmly in the direction of the PL, PGMOL.

This 1000%.

That Attwell didn’t have the professional dignity to say that he shouldn’t be on this game says as much about him as the PGMOL.

 

[Alan Akbah]

@SouthManchesterTree Coventry were robbed blind and it's knackered the flow of the game in general.

 

[enlightened]

I’d rather it was ditched - I’m happy to accept onfield decisions rather than this selectively applied mess

Absolutely - just get rid of it. I honestly believe it's massively reduced the quality of on-field refereeing which can't be a good thing. Let's get back to the days when we only had to debate a decision made by one imperfect individual in real time, rather than debating decisions made by a team of people with all the slow motion replays they want.

 

[Cortez the Killer]

It's in the interests of any club in the bottom half to support this, because they too will have been at the receiving end of dodgy decisions. I felt sorry for Wolves this season, there will be others I'm not aware of too.

Whilst I do think the tweet is not professional, I can see that we were pushed towards it by officials doubling down on treating us unfairly and the media continually failing to address the problem with poor officiating.

I can understand a reluctance to step over the line from incompetence to corruption, but if we love football we have to get this sorted because it's ruining the game.

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

I mentioned yesterday that these were the rules and that Jeff Winter had said so. Michael Oliver previously here also confirms the same thing. There is a massive issue here if the PGMOL have broken their own rules.

If Attwell had had anything about him he'd have reclused himself.

That said I don't want to go down whining. I want us to stay up fighting and with two fingers showing firmly in the direction of the PL, PGMOL.

Yes, he should have recused himself. It would have avoided any idea that the VAR official may have been biased deliberately or not.

I want us to stay up fighting too but trying to get the Premier League inconsistencies smoothed out is a fight that not only Forest, but all the Premier League clubs should take up because whether it is or isn't deliberate, the frequency that these bad calls are happening looks really bad especially for the 'Best League in the World.'

It shouldn't just be Forest in this fight, it should be all the teams looking to seek improvements.

 

[Lefkasman]

I finally listened to the entire after match commentary with Neville, Carragher and Saha, and the prick Neville genuinely believes that managers voices are the most potent way call out bad referees, but we've had over a deade of managers criticising refereeing decisions and nothing has changed. We are still talking about it. We are still dealing with truly baffling decisions. He sounded a complete arse.

To be fair managers do get their way sometimes. If they are called Ferguson.

Sent from my 23124RA7EO using Tapatalk

 

[Harry1982]

@SouthManchesterTree Coventry were robbed blind and it's knackered the flow of the game in general.

That was the most asinine offside I have ever seen. They literally had to draw 2 lines in different colours to make it look offside.

 

[Harry1982]

It's in the interests of any club in the bottom half to support this, because they too will have been at the receiving end of dodgy decisions. I felt sorry for Wolves this season, there will be others I'm not aware of too.

Whilst I do think the tweet is not professional, I can see that we were pushed towards it by officials doubling down on treating us unfairly and the media continually failing to address the problem with poor officiating.

I can understand a reluctance to step over the line from incompetence to corruption, but if we love football we have to get this sorted because it's ruining the game.

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

That coventry decision, makes it look like they wanted man U in the final. Probably thought cov would not be a big enough draw for the final.

 

[Alan Akbah]

That was the most asinine offside I have ever seen. They literally had to draw 2 lines in different colours to make it look offside.

Didn't want Coventry to go off script....

BBC and ITV Sport both love a tedious Manchester Derby at Wembley. A final where even the winning team's fans will be all sniffly about it being beneath them to even be bothered.