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Nuno Herlander Simões Espírito Santo

Satisfied with the replacement?

  • Yes

    Votes: 131 80.9%
  • No, I think we could've got better

    Votes: 31 19.1%

  • Total voters
    162

Eddie Yates

I ♥️ Nigel Farage 🇬🇧
It's funny how folk will argue to the nth degree on who's the better manager when both are struggling for the same reasons: individual mistakes and poor referee decisions.

If anyone at the club can sort either of those two things out for us we'll be absolutely fine this season.
Who do you think is the better manager Maxi

SC or NES?
 

T.B.T.

Forum Princess
LTLF Minion
It’s all hypothetical anyway because we’ll never know where and how we’d be if Cooper was still in charge.

There may well be other factors that we simply aren’t aware of.

Survival last season was only phase 1. Phase 2 this season has presented us with plenty new challenges many of which we didn’t, and couldn’t, anticipate. There was never going to be a quick and easy fix.

What we do know is that we have Nuno whether we love, like or loathe it and he was bought into our club because we simply need to do better than we were. We have to be better.

Nuno is doing it differently. It won’t always be the right or the best way but it’s his way. Playing to our strengths whilst repairing our weaknesses and breaking the opposition whilst engineering a mentality to counter absence, injury, poor officiating and off the field politics cannot be easy.

Nuno may well be driving our big red bus but it still feels like we’re an old classic being patched up to race against shiny new heartless engines built for the modern soulless track.

The odds are stacked against us but we have to Believe in Miracles.
 

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
It’s all hypothetical anyway because we’ll never know where and how we’d be if Cooper was still in charge.

There may well be other factors that we simply aren’t aware of.

Survival last season was only phase 1. Phase 2 this season has presented us with plenty new challenges many of which we didn’t, and couldn’t, anticipate. There was never going to be a quick and easy fix.

What we do know is that we have Nuno whether we love, like or loathe it and he was bought into our club because we simply need to do better than we were. We have to be better.

Nuno is doing it differently. It won’t always be the right or the best way but it’s his way. Playing to our strengths whilst repairing our weaknesses and breaking the opposition whilst engineering a mentality to counter absence, injury, poor officiating and off the field politics cannot be easy.

Nuno may well be driving our big red bus but it still feels like we’re an old classic being patched up to race against shiny new heartless engines built for the modern soulless track.

The odds are stacked against us but we have to Believe in Miracles.
First season back, Cooper adopted a gung-ho approach and we kept getting battered.
Cooper responded by reverting to the defensive solidity, and had MGW, Johnno, and Taiwo to be able to move rapidly to counter-attack with success, and he kept us safe with that brilliant win against Arsenal.
Cooper then started this season with the deep low block, but opponents had learned from last season, and played to counter our ability to counter-attack so quickly.
Unfortunately he lost Johnson, and then Taiwo, and had to rely on an unfit Hudson-Odoi (low on confidence), Elanga, and Chris Wood (whom Cooper couldn't work out how to play for the best).
CHO and Elanga had their own injury niggles, and Cooper was left playing a low block but with no outlet for a fast and deadly counter attack.
Personally, I think that Cooper would have found it nigh on impossible to change his approach, even with CHO and Elanga recovering and growing in confidence.
The change to NES was a catalyst, allowing the team to become more attack minded, but NES now has the problem that Steve had when we first returned to the top flight: our defence is frail.
Williams is only just beginning to to show the form that warranted a £17m fee; Felipe is fine when faced with slow and cumbersome strikers - absolute class in those situations, but unable to cope with anyone with pace and quick feet; Boly gives us more steel, particularly aerially, but has been unavailable for such a long time now; Murillo is a prodigeous talent, but at 21 he can be naive and needs an occasional break from playing whereas he is currently ever-present; Omobamidele is similarly a 21 year olf with lots of potential, but like Murillo is still naive and learning his trade; Niakhate is decent on the ground, but weak in the air, and prone to panic decisions; Aina, Toffolo, and Tavares each have their own strengths and also each has some critical weaknesses.
NES is now facing the same quandry as Steve Cooper: does he revert to a low block, and play 3 defnesive midfielders, and hope we can score enough on the counter (and risk the boo-boys in the crowd getting on his back for being a boring defensive coach), or does he continue to play expansive attacking play, scoring lots of goals, thrilling the crowd, but losing game after game because we are weak defensively.
I think the return of Boly, alongside Niakhate, can't come soon enough...
As for whether NES is a better coach than Cooper?
I think both are decent coaches, but when presented with identical problems neither has the playing resources to come up with a fail-safe, consistent solution.
And I've not even mentioned the goalkeeping situation.
 
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FLC

First Team Squad

Alf-engelos Mindminackers

The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
First season back, Cooper adopted a gung-ho approach and we kept getting battered.
Cooper responded by reverting to the defensive solidity, and had MGW, Johnno, and Taiwo to be able to move rapidly to counter-attack with success, and he kept us safe with that brilliant win against Arsenal.
Cooper then started this season with the deep low block, but opponents had learned from last season we were, and played to counter our ability to counter-attack so quickly.
Unfortunately he lost Johnson, and then Taiwo, and had to rely on an unfit Hudson-Odoi (low on confidence), Elanga, and Chris Wood (whom Cooper couldn't work out how to play for the best).
CHO and Elanga had their own injury niggles, and cooper was left playing a low block but with no outlet for a fast and deadly counter attack.
Personally, i think that Cooper would have found it nigh on impossible to change his approach, even with CHO and Elanga recovering and growing in confidence.
The change to NES was a catalyst, allowing the team to become more attack minded, but NES now has the problem that Steve had when we first returned to the top flight: our defence is frail.
Williams is only just beginning to to show the form that warranted a £17m fee; Felipe is fine when faced with slow and cumbersome strikers - absolute class in those situation, but unable to cope with anyone with pace and quick feet; Boly gives us more steel, particularly aerially, but has been unavailable for such a long time now; Murillo is a prodigeous talent, but at 21 he can be naive and needs an occasional break from playing whereas he is currently ever-present; Omobamidele is similarly a 21 year olf with lots of potential, but like Murillo is still naive and learning his trade; Niakhate is decent on the ground, but weak in the air, and prone to panic decisions; Aina, Toffolo, and Tavares each have their own strengths and also each has some critical weaknesses.
NES i now facing the same quandry as Steve Cooper: does he revert to a low block, and play 3 defnesive midfielders, and hope we can score enough on the counter (and risk the boo-boys in the crowd getting on his back for being a boing defensive coach), or does he continue to play expansive attacking play, scoring lots of goals, thrilling the crowd, but losing game after game because we are weak defensively.
I think the return of Boly, alongside Niakhate, can't come soon enough...
As for whether NES is a better coach than Cooper?
I think both are decent coaches, but when presented with identical problems neither has the playing resources to come up with a fail-safe, consistent solution.
And I've not even mentioned the goalkeeping situation.

You're summary about the imbalances is spot on. Players with good attributes do not necessarily make a good team. The people who built our squad bought a lot of talented players....who also come with a lot of weaknesses.

Both Cooper and Nuno had/have a battle on to get that firing, I've still no idea how some people (looking at the owner here in particular) thought it good enough to push for the top 3rd of the Prem this year, but at least Nuno now has the advantage of a half-decent keeper who isn't gaff-prone to keep us up. That's massive....but then he goes and inflicts his own gaffs on the side by selecting a CB at LB 🤦‍♂️

Throw in the FFP charge, and we've an incredible tough task staying up....but not an impossible one. We've just gotta keep believing.
 
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MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay

Berkshire Red

Jack Armstrong
Did we get an explanation for the Niakhete f*** up? Nuno cuts an exasperated figure, did anyone dare f***ing ask?

Seemed a fairly basic error on the face of it & it cost us.
What, playing someone at left back who has previously played at left back?

Strange to think that we missed Tavares!

Need those AFCON players back, it's ridiculous how much football they're missing.
 

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
Was it Niakhate's fault, that first goal?
For me the fault was really in defensive midfield, or with the centre-backs, or even with Neco Williams.
I think it was Dominguez who was marking McGinn.
He didn't get tight on his man, allowing a player of McGinn's quality to control the ball, turn, and place a beautifully weighted ball into the space behind Niakhate.
Bailey was already on stride in anticipation of that pass.
Niakhate had to turn and then get up to speed, by which time Bailey was long gone, and the ball was on its way to the far post.
On it's journey it passed Murillo and Felipe, and then found Watkins - one of the most deadly strikers in the game today - with Williams a yard behind Watkins.
Murillo or Felipe should have cut out the cross, but williams should have been goal side of Watkins.
Sels could do nothing about the cross, nor the tap-in.
I don't think Toffolo would have had any more joy if he had been on instead of Moussa.
However, I am sure better readers of the game will correct me before too long.
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Was it Niakhate's fault, that first goal?

Yes, and others.

1st goal:
1) Niakhate doesn't anticipate the run in behind - Bad error.
2) Murillo isn't strong enough - Bad error.
3) Felipe unnecessarily uses left leg to block shot to goal which aint ever happening - Meh error.
4) Sels positioning isn't ideal, potential to cut out cross if his position is slightly better - Meh error.
- NB: Williams no fault here, he's done his best to cover both cross across 6 yard box or pull back. If anything was impressed with his decision here, showed a better understanding of next phase of play than Sels and Felipe.

2nd goal:
1) CHO doesn't track Cash run off him - Bad error.
2) Murillo needs to force Cash away from goal, lets him get cross in: Meh error.
3) Dominguez doesn't track his runner - bad error.
4) Danilo realises about 3 seconds too late he's in the wrong position - Meh error.

3rd Goal
1) Elanga gets sold a fake cross - Meh error
2) Felipe doesn't anticipate the Luiz run until too late - Meh error
3) Danilo stood at the far post marking no one and contributing nothing, his marking of no one is why Villa have a man free - Meh error.

4th Goal
1) Dominguez shit pass back to Omobamidele - Bad error
2) Omobamidele tries a hospital pass to Danilo - Bad error
3) Danilo is flat footed in receiving the pass - Bad error
4) Omoamidele is goal side of the through pass and should be able to ease Watkins off it but falls over - Bad error.


Lots of this stuff is absolute basics and it's been ever present throughout the season. It's why I'm getting a little frustrated by the comments "we look so much better" - well it doesn't f***ing matter if we're conceding 2+ goals every game because the players can't defend as a unit or make the same simple mistakes game after game.
 
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Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
Yes, and others.

1st goal:
1) Niakhate doesn't anticipate the run in behind - Bad error.
2) Murillo isn't strong enough - Bad error.
3) Felipe unnecessarily uses left leg to block shot to goal which aint ever happening - Meh error.
4) Sels positioning isn't ideal, potential to cut out cross if his position is slightly better - Meh error.
- NB: Williams no fault here, he's done his best to cover both cross across 6 yard box or pull back. If anything was impressed with his decision here, showed a better understanding of next phase of play than Sels and Felipe.

2nd goal:
1) CHO doesn't track Cash run off him - Bad error.
2) Murillo needs to force Cash away from goal, lets him get cross in: Meh error.
3) Dominguez doesn't track his runner - bad error.
4) Danilo realises about 3 seconds too late he's in the wrong position - Meh error.

3rd Goal
1) Elanga gets sold a fake cross - Meh error
2) Felipe doesn't anticipate the Luiz run until too late - Meh error
3) Danilo stood at the far post marking no one and contributing nothing, his marking of no one is why Villa have a man free - Meh error.

4th Goal
1) Dominguez shit pass back to Omobamidele - Bad error
2) Omobamidele tries a hospital pass to Danilo - Bad error
3) Danilo is flat footed in receiving the pass - Bad error
4) Omoamidele is goal side of the through pass and should be able to ease Watkins off it but falls over - Bad error.


Lots of this stuff is absolute basics and it's been ever present throughout the season. It's why I'm getting a little frustrated by the comments "we look so much better" - well it doesn't f***ing matter if we're conceding 2+ goals every game because the players can't defend as a unit or make the same simple mistakes game after game.
It’s the same, simple, fundamental errors every single match.

To coin a phrase, it makes you wonder what they do in training.
 

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
Yes, and others.

1st goal:
1) Niakhate doesn't anticipate the run in behind - Bad error.
2) Murillo isn't strong enough - Bad error.
3) Felipe unnecessarily uses left leg to block shot to goal which aint ever happening - Meh error.
4) Sels positioning isn't ideal, potential to cut out cross if his position is slightly better - Meh error.
- NB: Williams no fault here, he's done his best to cover both cross across 6 yard box or pull back. If anything was impressed with his decision here, showed a better understanding of next phase of play than Sels and Felipe.

2nd goal:
1) CHO doesn't track Cash run off him - Bad error.
2) Murillo needs to force Cash away from goal, lets him get cross in: Meh error.
3) Dominguez doesn't track his runner - bad error.
4) Danilo realises about 3 seconds too late he's in the wrong position - Meh error.

3rd Goal
1) Elanga gets sold a fake cross - Meh error
2) Felipe doesn't anticipate the Luiz run until too late - Meh error
3) Danilo stood at the far post marking no one and contributing nothing, his marking of no one is why Villa have a man free - Meh error.

4th Goal
1) Dominguez shit pass back to Omobamidele - Bad error
2) Omobamidele tries a hospital pass to Danilo - Bad error
3) Danilo is flat footed in receiving the pass - Bad error
4) Omoamidele is goal side of the through pass and should be able to ease Watkins off it but falls over - Bad error.


Lots of this stuff is absolute basics and it's been ever present throughout the season. It's why I'm getting a little frustrated by the comments "we look so much better" - well it doesn't f***ing matter if we're conceding 2+ goals every game because the players can't defend as a unit or make the same simple mistakes game after game.
Excellent analysis of each goal - cheers.
And your comments about the poor defending from the start of the season are spot on.
Now then, is the cause of the bad defending:
a) Players are not technically good enough;
b) Defensive Coach isn't technically good enough;
c) Opponents have had longer in the Premier League, and therefore have assembled better players in tigh knit sqauds?
d) FFP/PSR?
e) VAR?

Personally, I think it is probably a multi-variable equation.
Against West Ham some people said "West Ham were really poor", and that was why we won.
Others said "Forest played so well we made West Ham look Poor".
Personally, I think that for the Villa game too few fans and pundits gave sufficient credence to c) above: they have a midfield and attack that is full of players who are technically very good, who have played together for a long while.
Behind the attacking players they have weaknesses at the heart of defence, which we finally exploited.
But their frailties were insignificant when compared to ours.
 

MASE

Up-Front
Yes, and others.


3rd Goal
1) Elanga gets sold a fake cross - Meh error
2) Felipe doesn't anticipate the Luiz run until too late - Meh error
3) Danilo stood at the far post marking no one and contributing nothing, his marking of no one is why Villa have a man free - Meh error.
.

Worth noting Murillo didn't get off the ground for goal three. Only at Forest does 5 ft nothing Douglas Luiz score with a header 8 yds out.

I agree with you, for all the improved attacking combinations theres alot more errors, including fatal ones trying to play out from the back, so the net result feels the same.
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Excellent analysis of each goal - cheers.
And your comments about the poor defending from the start of the season are spot on.
Now then, is the cause of the bad defending:
a) Players are not technically good enough;
b) Defensive Coach isn't technically good enough;
c) Opponents have had longer in the Premier League, and therefore have assembled better players in tigh knit sqauds?
d) FFP/PSR?
e) VAR?

Personally, I think it is probably a multi-variable equation.
Against West Ham some people said "West Ham were really poor", and that was why we won.
Others said "Forest played so well we made West Ham look Poor".
Personally, I think that for the Villa game too few fans and pundits gave sufficient credence to c) above: they have a midfield and attack that is full of players who are technically very good, who have played together for a long while.
Behind the attacking players they have weaknesses at the heart of defence, which we finally exploited.
But their frailties were insignificant when compared to ours.

I genuinely don't know what the answer is any more.

We're a PL team paying PL wages to some of these players so a defender not tracking a run is pretty piss poor. There are some players who are a bit naive still like Omobamidele and Danilo who will probably get there with more experience but right here right now it's causing us a problem. Dominguez is showing us why we were able to pick him up for £10m. For every game he has where he's an absolute rolls royce of a player, he has a game where he's just turgid.

I think bigger cause for concern is we've gone from Turner dropping the ball in his net for us to lose 2-1 to making north of 10 mistakes contributing to goals within a game. It sort of doesn't matter how or why those things are happening just that they are.

Nuno has apparently stated the defensive side of the game is the big thing to crack so you know, if he's really that good this is where he earns his coin. Reality is if we continue to defend like we did against Villa then we'll go down and any perceived "we're playing better football" will be made completely irrelevant.
 

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
I genuinely don't know what the answer is any more.

We're a PL team paying PL wages to some of these players so a defender not tracking a run is pretty piss poor. There are some players who are a bit naive still like Omobamidele and Danilo who will probably get there with more experience but right here right now it's causing us a problem.

I think bigger cause for concern is we've gone from Turner dropping the ball in his net for us to lose 2-1 to making north of 10 mistakes contributing to goals within a game. It sort of doesn't matter how or why those things are happening just that they are.

Nuno has apparently stated the defensive side of the game is the big thing to crack so you know, if he's really that good this is where he earns his coin. Reality is if we continue to defend like we did against Villa then we'll go down.
I have posted elsewhere on the forum that i have given up hoping we will survive.
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
I have posted elsewhere on the forum that i have given up hoping we will survive.

I think we will, just.

But we will do so because the bottom three are the worst bottom three at this level for a very long time, if not ever.

We'll make our lives easier for ourselves if we can just do the basics well. If we're in a ding-dong of a game where it's end-to-end an attacking prowess is the only determining factor for who takes the points then Forest would top 40 points come end of season. But...
 

Flaggers

May not be the best moderator on LTLF, but he's...
LTLF Minion
It’s the same, simple, fundamental errors every single match.

To coin a phrase, it makes you wonder what they do in training.
Clearly not throw-ins or free kicks.
We have scored off a couple of corners this century so things are looking a bit less gloomy there.
 

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
I think we will, just.

But we will do so because the bottom three are the worst bottom three at this level for a very long time, if not ever.

We'll make our lives easier for ourselves if we can just do the basics well. If we're in a ding-dong of a game where it's end-to-end an attacking prowess is the only determining factor for who takes the points then Forest would top 40 points come end of season. But...
I am not so confident.

I think the points deduction - and I’m sure there will be one - will be harsh enough to drop Forest into the bottom three, come the end of the season.
 

Battered Sausage

Matchday Squad
I think it'll come down to two things. Points deduction and Luton away. They play their game in hand against Bournemouth on Wednesday. We might have an FA cup quater final to play on the date we are due to play them so this game could get pushed right back till after any deduction is announced.

If only we hadn't thrown away so many silly points this season, we wouldn't even be talking about it.
 
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