Nuno Herlander Simões Espírito Santo

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

I think the question of Nuno's future should be just one part of a much wider, honest and self-critical review of the state of the club from top to bottom.
It should start with Marinakis himself. He needs to ask himself whether his tantrums have served his ambitions or hindered them. He's managed to create fear internally and ridicule externally, which is not a great combination. He would rightly demand very high standards of professionalism from those who work for him but he has to set those standards himself. This season, much of his behaviour has seem amateurishly self-indulgent.
It should then extend to the board. How did they allow the club to break FFP rules having pledged never to do so? How are they going to ensure that they fulfil their duties of oversight from here on in?
It should look at recruitment. Some things have been done extremely well, so we're obviously capable of running a good operation. So why do we end up bringing in plays like Reyna and Origi who no independent observers expected to be of any use to us?
It has to look at the coaching and fitness regime. How come we've been unable to coach basic drills for defending set-pieces? Why do we run out of stream so disastrously at the end of games? Are the lapses of concentration that have led to us dropping so many points from winning positions symptoms of physical fatigue? If so what kind of conditioning is necessary to cure this disease?
It's in this context that Nuno's performance should be assessed -- not just retrospectively but also in relation to his capacity to improve. Otherwise, just changing managers merely distracts from the wider lack of accountability for a very poor season on and off the pitch.

Absolutely spot on, excellent post.

Sadly, I think a lot of it will just boil down to how deep Mendes' eyes look to Marinakis on a starry night lol.

 

[Annesleyred]

Was Nuno just brought in to keep us up ? If he is, then he needs to sort the 'spine ' of the team and the complete defence. We have capable players but keep letting games slip away.
We know our frailties now hope he can work on it better. Not sure if he can do it but I hate to keep changing managers. I'd sadly settle for mid table and lower blood pressure next season.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Was Nuno just brought in to keep us up ?

With half a season left to go I think inevitably there would have been levels of priorities for him

1. Priority 1 - Keep us up
2. Priority 2 - Pick up more points / wins than Cooper was achieving
3. Priority 3 - Achieve a top half finish

Something along those lines

The only time you get managers brought in with literally a remit of "just keep us up, nothing else matters" is a last-ditch effort to avoid relegation when it looks the likely outcome; eg. Sam Allardyce at Leeds last year

 

[Robertson]

With half a season left to go I think inevitably there would have been levels of priorities for him

1. Priority 1 - Keep us up
2. Priority 2 - Pick up more points / wins than Cooper was achieving
3. Priority 3 - Achieve a top half finish

Something along those lines

The only time you get managers brought in with literally a remit of "just keep us up, nothing else matters" is a last-ditch effort to avoid relegation when it looks the likely outcome; eg. Sam Allardyce at Leeds last year

Exactly. Which is why the arguments about whether or not Marinakis has set a top half finish as a target are completely pointless.

In any job there can be targets where if you miss them its “ok, how can we do better next time?”, targets where if you miss it’s “I expect to see better next time, or we’ll need to review your position”, and targets where if you miss it’s “sling your hook, you’re fired”, and everything in between.

 

[Hawkeye1947]

I’m probably in the minority but I want Nuno to stay. IF we had not had the four point deduction and the number of horrendous VAR decisions we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion. I personally think that the football is better under Nuno (I was a massive Cooper fan for bringing us to VAR land). Yes he has made a lot of wrong decisions and hopefully he will learn from them. IF Nuno goes who do we bring in?

 

[Haych]

I’m probably in the minority but I want Nuno to stay. IF we had not had the four point deduction and the number of horrendous VAR decisions we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion. I personally think that the football is better under Nuno (I was a massive Cooper fan for bringing us to VAR land). Yes he has made a lot of wrong decisions and hopefully he will learn from them. IF Nuno goes who do we bring in?

Same here, give a pre season and see where we are at Christmas.

If we’re no better than this season then see who’s available.

 

[JonnoSnr]

I’m probably in the minority but I want Nuno to stay. IF we had not had the four point deduction and the number of horrendous VAR decisions we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion. I personally think that the football is better under Nuno (I was a massive Cooper fan for bringing us to VAR land). Yes he has made a lot of wrong decisions and hopefully he will learn from them. IF Nuno goes who do we bring in?

I'm in this camp too. My feelings towards Nuno aren't really strong enough either way to be honest so if he was given the boot I wouldn't shed a tear but ideally I think a manager should be given a pre-season and the transfer window at least.

 

[glosterred]

Exactly. Which is why the arguments about whether or not Marinakis has set a top half finish as a target are completely pointless.

In any job there can be targets where if you miss them its “ok, how can we do better next time?”, targets where if you miss it’s “I expect to see better next time, or we’ll need to review your position”, and targets where if you miss it’s “sling your hook, you’re fired”, and everything in between.

But if Coopers achievements during his tenure fell into the ‘sling you’re hook you’re fired’ category, you can understand why some fans might take the assumption that Nuno’s remit was a top half finish.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

But it Coopere achievements during his tenure fell into the ‘sling you’re hook you’re fired’ category, you can understand why some fans might take the assumption that Nuno’s remit was a top half finish.

Or even more simple: If you're making a change presumably it's because you're not content with the status quo. Therefore any replacement needs to improve things not just continue on same trajectory.

And also not have to spend an extra £5m on a new keeper just to continue on same trajectory.

It's funny how the folk who think Marinakis ambition is a good thing also think he might be content with Nuno's six months here. He won't be, he'll be seething that we came so close to going down.

Of course, he won't once stop to think if his own actions were a contributing factor.

 

[glosterred]

Or even more simple: If you're making a change presumably it's because you're not content with the status quo. Therefore any replacement needs to improve things not just continue on same trajectory.

And also not have to spend an extra £5m on a new keeper just to continue on same trajectory.

Absolutely.

To say that Nuno's remit was to keep us up, is for my money, effectively saying you are holding Nuno to a lesser standard - granted I come from a standpoint that we were not going down under Cooper.

I actually think it would be beneficial for everyone concerned if the owner publicly set out a 5 year plan. Hopefully it has dawned on him how difficult it is to be competitive in the Premier League, so he will keep the plan realistic. Maybe something like.

Next Season: Keep us up for a 3rd season in the Premier League
Year 2: 17-14th Finish.
Year 3: Top Half Finish.
Year 4: Top 8
Year 5: Top 6

Something like that - we would all probably take being a top 6 PL team in 5 years! As long as Nuno hits target, he remains our manager.

It gives the fans some peace of mind that a longer-term strategy is being thought out, and it may even curtail the expectations of some of the fan base.

Let's face it, if Cooper had been handed a 5-year plan when he was appointed, on a similar premise, he would highly likely still be our manager now.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I actually think it would be beneficial for everyone concerned if the owner publicly set out a 5 year plan. Hopefully it has dawned on him how difficult it is to be competitive in the Premier League, so he will keep the plan realistic. Maybe something like.

Next Season: Keep us up for a 3rd season in the Premier League
Year 2: 17-14th Finish.
Year 3: Top Half Finish.
Year 4: Top 8
Year 5: Top 6

Something like that

Marinakis be like:

Next season: Europe
Year 2: Win the league
Year 3: Leverkusen like unbeaten treble.
Year 4: ????
Year 5: Profit!

 

[little_donkey_congo_red]

Or even more simple: If you're making a change presumably it's because you're not content with the status quo. Therefore any replacement needs to improve things not just continue on same trajectory.

We've proven to be so good at that in the past.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

We've proven to be so good at that in the past.

The key is hiring someone so bad like Chris Hughton for a few days and then replacing them with the primary candidate. Repeat that every time you want to replace a manager and then your new guy is always a step up.

 

[Berkshire Red]

Or even more simple: If you're making a change presumably it's because you're not content with the status quo. Therefore any replacement needs to improve things not just continue on same trajectory.

But we didn't continue on the same trajectory, did we? Nuno arrested the slide we were on, unfortunately he wasn't able to continue on the positive run for too long.

Look, until EM changes his approach we'll go round in circles. But it is also possible to have been concerned that Coops was taking us down. Many of us were, and EM appears to have shared those concerns.

We'll soon find out if he's sufficiently happy to let Nuno continue for a while.

 

[Cortez the Killer]

Is it possible that an owner will tolerate a new manager's performance being the same as the previous manager's performance as long as he isn't adored by the majority of the fanbase?

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[Gyros Peter]

I think Nuno will be given the chance to take us forward next season. If he doesn't achieve it or has us looking like relegation material through a run of bad results he'll be let go, but I expect him to start the season and be given an opportunity to put his mark on the squad.

 

[Berkshire Red]

Is it possible that an owner will tolerate a new manager's performance being the same as the previous manager's performance as long as he isn't adored by the majority of the fanbase?

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If that was a major sticking point then I'd suppose the answer would be in the affirmative. But we're all second guessing EM aren't we?

It would be nice to think that the fanbase would be behind the manager, whoever it is, on the first day of the new season.

 

[TrentEndGaribaldi]

Tricky thing for Nuno is that I don't think he goes into next season with much credit in the bank.

This is especially tricky when your boss is Marinakis - I don't think he'd hesitate to pull the plug on Nuno after a few games if we got off to a slow start.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

If that was a major sticking point then I'd suppose the answer would be in the affirmative. But we're all second guessing EM aren't we?

Seemed to be a trend started when Cooper's job was on the line. We were constantly told what EM would be thinking.

For example...

Your last sentence sums it up. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if fans either want him gone or want him to be given a 10 year contract. Marinakis is a highly ambitious individual who has pumped in serious cash and won't accept a lack of progress.

Cooper could be the nicest guy on the planet but we're in a results business and the PL is ruthless. If he's not getting the results and EM feels that there is someone else available that will then the decision will be made.

I personally don't think he will consider just staying up because the promoted sides are so bad as acceptable progress.

Don't see any reason why it should stop now tbh. Goose and gander and all that. If anything, if we want to embrace the Marinakis way, it's about results and backing him with his disposable treatment of managers. Backing managers over him only seems to wind the owner up.

Nuno is employed by the club to get results. We should expect him to deliver and in good measure.

 

[glosterred]

It would be nice to think that the fanbase would be behind the manager, whoever it is, on the first day of the new season.

Agree with this, but more crucially, also get behind him when the going gets a little rough, which it invariably will, rather than just assuming it's the end of the road, that no way does this manager we all backed at the start of the season have it in his locker to turn this around, the only solution is a change...

 

[Monkman]

Some interesting stuff on Nuno's character from Henry Winter in the latest FF podcast.

Like many others, I find the stuff he says about Forest and the fans comes across as a little calculated and insincere, but I wonder if that's a cultural thing and we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Notcher]

Some interesting stuff on Nuno's character from Henry Winter in the latest FF podcast.

Like many others, I find the stuff he says about Forest and the fans comes across as a little calculated and insincere, but I wonder if that's a cultural thing and we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Like almost everyone else he's been a complete hypocrite when talking about referees. He said that there has been 2 occasions when he felt there was something iffy and not right about the referee and then goes on to say that anyone that feels there is some corruption with a referee is talking absolute nonsense. Is it just one of those Henry, it's only corrupt if you think it is? Until then everyone is talking rubbish

 

[Battered Sausage]

Some interesting stuff on Nuno's character from Henry Winter in the latest FF podcast.

Like many others, I find the stuff he says about Forest and the fans comes across as a little calculated and insincere, but I wonder if that's a cultural thing and we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

I want to know where he found a snake in Rutland.

 

[JonnoSnr]

Absolutely.

To say that Nuno's remit was to keep us up, is for my money, effectively saying you are holding Nuno to a lesser standard - granted I come from a standpoint that we were not going down under Cooper.

I actually think it would be beneficial for everyone concerned if the owner publicly set out a 5 year plan. Hopefully it has dawned on him how difficult it is to be competitive in the Premier League, so he will keep the plan realistic. Maybe something like.

Next Season: Keep us up for a 3rd season in the Premier League
Year 2: 17-14th Finish.
Year 3: Top Half Finish.
Year 4: Top 8
Year 5: Top 6

Something like that - we would all probably take being a top 6 PL team in 5 years! As long as Nuno hits target, he remains our manager.

It gives the fans some peace of mind that a longer-term strategy is being thought out, and it may even curtail the expectations of some of the fan base.

Let's face it, if Cooper had been handed a 5-year plan when he was appointed, on a similar premise, he would highly likely still be our manager now.

Perhaps it wasn't just about league position. Could it have been about the style too?

I think it's fair to say that under Cooper in the Premier League we were driving with the handbrake on. It wasn't enjoyable to watch, at least not to me.

Now of course we've corrected that but look worse at the back so points-wise we're not hugely different but we're a lot more watchable now and perhaps that's what Marinakis was after.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

Realstic expectations with our squad I thought was between 40-50 points. That is a 2 point improvment from last season. People are using the unrealstic ambition to say that Nuno and Cooper have done as expected this season. However that is disengenous, they both failed and bad fails. To potentially end up on 33 points without a deduction or 36 points if we win on the weekend is very poor in my opinion.

I think its churlish to go on positions because its not a better a marker for me. Solksjaer finished 2nd on 72 points yet he was still a terrible united manager.