Naughty Forest..Its All Fine..No Really It is All Fines.

[redodare]

I thought the VAR table was the proportion of VAR decisions that go in your favour veris those that don't
- so goal given is a + point - goal chalked off is a - point . red card given to opposition player + point , red card given to your player a - point ect.

FWIR we were slightly above mid table.

A fair point is what about the incidents that should have gone to VAR but didn't . Although slightly at odds with VAR should be scrapped view.
Not sure how you would measure it . Nor why we would be particularly disadvantaged.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I thought the VAR table was the proportion of VAR decisions that go in your favour veris those that don't
- so goal given is a + point - goal chalked off is a - point . red card given to opposition player + point , red card given to your player a - point ect.

FWIR we were slightly above mid table.

A fair point is what about the incidents that should have gone to VAR but didn't . Although slightly at odds with VAR should be scrapped view.
Not sure how you would measure it . Nor why we would be particularly disadvantaged.

Yes it was this.

For example the Nico Williams non-penalty vs West Ham was considered both a "correct decision" and a "non-intervention decision" despite the fact it was a clear and obvious mistake by both ref and VAR.

So, you get the double whammy of "stop complaining about it" alongside the decision not featuring in any FA/PGMOL manipulated VAR leagues.

The same thing also applied to the Taiwo foul vs Newcastle, and the Maddison punch on Yates and all the penalties vs Everton.

In short, the VAR league tables should be ignored entirely until they provide data on VAR decisions given against a team which was then reviewed by the "independent" panel who judged the team was wronged. I would bet my life savings Forest topped that league.

 

[Browser79]

We can verbally abuse refs and spit at officials all we like in response but it's getting us nowhere

Seems I have a two-mention trigger . I understand the position of criticising the club, but let’s be fair about it - he spat on the floor, not at the officials. I’m not here to defend either as ok, but those two things are very different in almost all cultures of the world outside of Singapore. I would expect the press to conflate the two for clicks, but I really don’t think we should.

Even if I agree that it’s getting us nowhere.

 

[ubik]

The bad decisions last season, apart from Boly's second yellow, were all about penalties we feel we should have had.

There are two stages: the ref misses a clear penalty, and VAR fails to alert him to his mistake. The one time VAR did its job was home to Brighton: Anthony Taylor (surprise!) gave them a soft pen but failed to spot our equally soft claim. VAR (don't know who it was) told him to look at the monitor, he gave the pen, and Dunk got himself sent off for swearing at the ref.

Even Shearer on MOTD said the foul on Awoniyi v Newcastle was a clear penalty. If we add the one already mentioned (Williams v West Ham), Yates v Everton at home, and three in 45 minutes at Everton, you'd hope to get at least three of those given by VAR. You'd also expect a referee to give a couple of them in the first place.

If we keep winning and stay well clear of relegation the whole issue becomes less important, but it's easy to see how players and staff could get very cynical about match officials.

 

[JonnoSnr]

The bad decisions last season, apart from Boly's second yellow, were all about penalties we feel we should have had.

There are two stages: the ref misses a clear penalty, and VAR fails to alert him to his mistake. The one time VAR did its job was home to Brighton: Anthony Taylor (surprise!) gave them a soft pen but failed to spot our equally soft claim. VAR (don't know who it was) told him to look at the monitor, he gave the pen, and Dunk got himself sent off for swearing at the ref.

Even Shearer on MOTD said the foul on Awoniyi v Newcastle was a clear penalty. If we add the one already mentioned (Williams v West Ham), Yates v Everton at home, and three in 45 minutes at Everton, you'd hope to get at least three of those given by VAR. You'd also expect a referee to give a couple of them in the first place.

If we keep winning and stay well clear of relegation the whole issue becomes less important, but it's easy to see how players and staff could get very cynical about match officials.

Throw in Maddison's punch to Yates' stomach - no action.

Brighton foul on Neco I think - definite red and just a yellow given.

The Tierney debacle at home to Liverpool.

All coincidentally when we had Clattenburg here. Weird that when he resigned we went through the final 4 games with no controversy at all...

I don't think that the PGMOL sit round a table or send a memo out directing refs to do us over but I definitely think there is a combination of rank incompetence and subconscious bias.

If a club is constantly moaning publicly about you and your mates, writing letters to your organisation etc and there's a decision to be made against them with any shred of doubt then even if your original intentions are to be down the line, you're a human being and in the heat of battle surely you're more likely to subconsciously go against them. Especially if said team go to the unprecedented lengths of employing a supposed expert in your field to watch what you're doing.

I remember reffing a few Sunday league games years ago for my team whilst injured and I don't care what anyone says, if a player or team is giving you dogs abuse for 90 mins you're less likely to side with them in a marginal call whether you intend to or not.

 

[Cloughie1975]

Throw in Maddison's punch to Yates' stomach - no action.

Brighton foul on Neco I think - definite red and just a yellow given.

The Tierney debacle at home to Liverpool.

All coincidentally when we had Clattenburg here. Weird that when he resigned we went through the final 4 games with no controversy at all...

I don't think that the PGMOL sit round a table or send a memo out directing refs to do us over but I definitely think there is a combination of rank incompetence and subconscious bias.

If a club is constantly moaning publicly about you and your mates, writing letters to your organisation etc and there's a decision to be made against them with any shred of doubt then even if your original intentions are to be down the line, you're a human being and in the heat of battle surely you're more likely to subconsciously go against them. Especially if said team go to the unprecedented lengths of employing a supposed expert in your field to watch what you're doing.

I remember reffing a few Sunday league games years ago for my team whilst injured and I don't care what anyone says, if a player or team is giving you dogs abuse for 90 mins you're less likely to side with them in a marginal call whether you intend to or not.

This was Brian Clough’s philosophy.

 

[Red Ray's Redlist]

I remember reffing a few Sunday league games years ago for my team whilst injured and I don't care what anyone says, if a player or team is giving you dogs abuse for 90 mins you're less likely to side with them in a marginal call whether you intend to or not

Ferguson's Man U team would dare to disagree.

 

[Otis Redding]

This was Brian Clough’s philosophy.

As commendable though Cloughie's philosophy may have been Cloughie, it frequently didn't work in our favour though. How often did opposing teams take advantage of referees back then. Every time we played George Graham's Arsenal, Adams, Bould and Keown would take it in turns to nail Nigel Clough, knowing that a lot of our play went through him and aware that there'd be no protest from Nigel or his teammates.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

Nigel was the perfect professional, everytime they hacked him he got more determined to beat them.

And he DID.

 

[Deleted User 27810]

Every time we played George Graham's Arsenal, Adams, Bould and Keown would take it in turns to nail Nigel Clough

 

[Alan Akbah]

Nigel was the perfect professional, everytime they hacked him he got more determined to beat them.

And he DID.

Remember his red card for twatting Paul Stewart from behind at Spurs? Beautiful

 

[Cloughie1975]

As commendable though Cloughie's philosophy may have been Cloughie, it frequently didn't work in our favour though. How often did opposing teams take advantage of referees back then. Every time we played George Graham's Arsenal, Adams, Bould and Keown would take it in turns to nail Nigel Clough, knowing that a lot of our play went through him and aware that there'd be no protest from Nigel or his teammates.

Nigel certainly tore Arsenal to shreds in our 3-1 win at Highbury in 1989,Otis.I also seem to remember he made the crucial passes to Paul Wilkinson and Brian Rice in our famous FA Cup win there the previous season.
Obviously Arsenal’s bully boy tactics didn’t always work.

 

[Otis Redding]

Nigel certainly tore Arsenal to shreds in our 3-1 win at Highbury in 1989,Otis.I also seem to remember he made the crucial passes to Paul Wilkinson and Brian Rice in our famous FA Cup win there the previous season.
Obviously Arsenal’s bully boy tactics didn’t always work.

Not always, I agree Cloughie. It doesn't alter the fact that there were many occasions when teams took advantage of weak referees and Cloughie's Corinthian attitude regarding his players challenging them. Liverpool and Manchester United also spring to mind as serial offenders for harassing officials, and on occasions at our expense.

 

[The Frog]

As commendable though Cloughie's philosophy may have been Cloughie, it

…was 30+ years ago.

 

[enlightened]

…was 30+ years ago.

This.

When there was a single referee on the pitch doing the best he could in real time then Cloughie's philosophy was laudable and something to look up to. Nowadays when a referee, a fourth official and a bunch of arseholes in Stockley Park looking at video of every incident and STILL f***ing it up that philosophy is naive at best.

 

[Browser79]

Means tested perhaps… https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cm2zyjz33dko

£7k fine for Wolves sporting director for abusive language to an official. Increased from a whopping £4k due it being a repeat offence.

 

[Red Ray's Redlist]

As commendable though Cloughie's philosophy may have been Cloughie, it frequently didn't work in our favour though. How often did opposing teams take advantage of referees back then. Every time we played George Graham's Arsenal, Adams, Bould and Keown would take it in turns to nail Nigel Clough, knowing that a lot of our play went through him and aware that there'd be no protest from Nigel or his teammates.

He was one of, if not the, bravest footballers around.

Nobody else played with their back to goal back then simply because they'd just get nailed over and over again. He was massively ahead of his time.

 

[wrexhamred]

Fully understand that the Forest fine is larger because of various previous issues and fines.

However, it is quite an interesting view on football by the FA that rather than actually view and deal with the incident for what it was, that being Chelsea players overreacting to an innocuous foul and causing the incident, resulting in Forest players then stepping in to defend their team mate, instead in the world of the FA they believe that Forest players should have just abandoned Nico, not got involved and just left him to it. It really does show how out of touch with reality they are.

I'm a bit fashionably late to the party but here's my tuppence worth.....

This ^^^^ would be an interesting experiment.....if it happens again all our players just stay out of the action completely. I get the camaraderie thing but as long as it was discussed & agreed beforehand.....I know if it was me I would be fine with that.
I mean every game is televised so what's the worst thing that could happen? There might be some hurty words shouted, so what? Even if somebody did get super aggressive & threw a punch to the face or whatever, screw the FA, go straight to the police & get them charged for assault. That would really mess with the corrupt f*****s heads, they can't fine us for doing literally nothing, they wouldn't know what to do

 

[valspoodle]

I think our fines and bans have been way over the top and are far larger than any others I've seen. And I'm not aware that our offences have been that worse or different to any others recorded.

If these panels are all independent and the members of said panels are interchangeable and are not the same every time, it can't be that there is any agenda afoot to specially pick us out. Which makes the whole thing even odder. Just like the odd referreeing decisions.

Why us? Or does it just feel like that and the facts don't match the suspicion?

 

[redforest]

I think our fines and bans have been way over the top and are far larger than any others I've seen. And I'm not aware that our offences have been that worse or different to any others recorded.

If these panels are all independent and the members of said panels are interchangeable and are not the same every time, it can't be that there is any agenda afoot to specially pick us out. Which makes the whole thing even odder. Just like the odd referreeing decisions.

Why us? Or does it just feel like that and the facts don't match the suspicion?

If VAR was a thing would Leicester have even won the league?

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

If VAR was a thing would Leicester have even won the league?

No chance, it was like a proper rugby match in their box whenever they had a set-piece against them.

Wes Morgan wa like Jonah Lomu.