Morgan Anthony Gibbs-White OF ENGLAND!!

[Chappers85]

I did wonder what had happened to Vance - I think he was the first player I can remember coming through that was tipped to be a first-teamer and didn't quite make it (understatement).

I remember him being touted as an exciting prospect too. I think he was supposed to be quick, big and strong - perfect assets for a centre half. It's a bit of an odd one because when he was released from Rotherham he would have been 26 I think, so plenty of years left in the tank. Maybe he just didn't have the hunger for it, or could earn more money in a real job than in the lower leagues. The episode of Reservoir Red Dogs that he's on, he comes across as a really lovely bloke, and as others have said he's done lots of charity work.

 

[Trents]

As I just put on standard of refs thread. MGW gets a further ban, Haaland escapes ban for his behaviour. Two tier premier league

I don't see how deliberately throwing a ball at someone's head is different to kicking is at someone lying on the floor, which I'm sure is a red card offence.

 

[Otis Redding]

I'd say one of the reasons is the lack of refs coming through the system so it's all well and good getting rid of them but need to have replacements. Championship refs are even worse and this run down the league so you'd end up in a worse position. And as far as I know the number of refs are dwindling and quite frankly I'm not surprised.

The amount of abuse they get from professional level down to Sunday league is quite a deterrent.

There used to be a young lad that reffed the local Sunday league and he was actually decent, but having a bunch of men shouting at you every week will no doubt make him think twice if he wants to carry on with getting his certificates.

You make a very good point, but I'm convinced that grassroots and junior referees aren't helped by the behaviour of a handful of high-profile, so-called elite officials.

 

[Notcher]

I remember him being touted as an exciting prospect too. I think he was supposed to be quick, big and strong - perfect assets for a centre half. It's a bit of an odd one because when he was released from Rotherham he would have been 26 I think, so plenty of years left in the tank. Maybe he just didn't have the hunger for it, or could earn more money in a real job than in the lower leagues. The episode of Reservoir Red Dogs that he's on, he comes across as a really lovely bloke, and as others have said he's done lots of charity work.

People on here will know that there was a horrific car accident which killed the entire family of a girl that my daughter plays football with. Vance was the first person to reach out to me to offer his support and to see what he could do. He's one of the nicest guys you could wish to meet and he's currently doing a 100 mile challenge for the Sheffield Hospitals Charity.

Sent from my SM-S928B using Tapatalk

 

[PynchonForest]

I'd say one of the reasons is the lack of refs coming through the system so it's all well and good getting rid of them but need to have replacements. Championship refs are even worse and this run down the league so you'd end up in a worse position. And as far as I know the number of refs are dwindling and quite frankly I'm not surprised.

The amount of abuse they get from professional level down to Sunday league is quite a deterrent.

There used to be a young lad that reffed the local Sunday league and he was actually decent, but having a bunch of men shouting at you every week will no doubt make him think twice if he wants to carry on with getting his certificates.

This 100%. Refereeing is NOT easy in the Prem. There is no bottomless pit of ready made referees out there waiting to replace Oliver etc. And the abuse. How many of you get yelled at constantly (even when you are correct) in your current jobs? I guess if you are a cop or a politician, sure. Otherwise highly doubtful any of you endure the insults, comments and insinuations levelled at refs. And this ongoing simplistic way of saying two situations are exactly the same when virtually no two situations are EVER exactly the same. Every single tackle is different from the others before and going forward. That is the one comment constantly directed at refereeing decisions that is flat out wrong. Similar is not exactly the same.

It's obvious many of you hate referees and that fact is set in stone and it isn't going to change anytime soon. And I think any ref who has been around understands this. But it's a VERY tough job to do properly. Taylor, as an example, is constantly subjected to a torrent of abuse and yet, somehow, he keeps on getting assigned to the Champions League, to internationals, and to major tournaments. So the people at FIFA and UEFA are, apparently, just as clueless as the people from PGMOL. Maybe a few of you should reflect on how Anthony Taylor can constantly get plum assignments even though he is, seemingly, the worst referee on planet Earth.

 

[valspoodle]

Business Consultants - get paid a fortune to go into businesses and tell them to change everything - long gone and long since by the time everyone realises their recommendations didn't work, or made very little difference.

We had a guy come to give our little Bookseller Association branch a chat about improving profits etc. The usual bullshit.

The lady running Cambridge University bookshop in central Cambridge invited him in and the result was nil. He hadn't a clue on actually running a bookshop, surprise, surprise. She had an inkling, just wanted to show him the real world.

 

[Sea Tree]

This 100%. Refereeing is NOT easy in the Prem. There is no bottomless pit of ready made referees out there waiting to replace Oliver etc. And the abuse. How many of you get yelled at constantly (even when you are correct) in your current jobs? I guess if you are a cop or a politician, sure. Otherwise highly doubtful any of you endure the insults, comments and insinuations levelled at refs. And this ongoing simplistic way of saying two situations are exactly the same when virtually no two situations are EVER exactly the same. Every single tackle is different from the others before and going forward. That is the one comment constantly directed at refereeing decisions that is flat out wrong. Similar is not exactly the same.

It's obvious many of you hate referees and that fact is set in stone and it isn't going to change anytime soon. And I think any ref who has been around understands this. But it's a VERY tough job to do properly. Taylor, as an example, is constantly subjected to a torrent of abuse and yet, somehow, he keeps on getting assigned to the Champions League, to internationals, and to major tournaments. So the people at FIFA and UEFA are, apparently, just as clueless as the people from PGMOL. Maybe a few of you should reflect on how Anthony Taylor can constantly get plum assignments even though he is, seemingly, the worst referee on planet Earth.

Powerful points, worthy of reflection, but the imprimatur of governing bodies is not necessarily the accolade that is implied: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/world/europe/fifa-infantino-reform.html

 

[Notcher]

We had a guy come to give our little Bookseller Association branch a chat about improving profits etc. The usual bullshit.

The lady running Cambridge University bookshop in central Cambridge invited him in and the result was nil. He hadn't a clue on actually running a bookshop, surprise, surprise. She had an inkling, just wanted to show him the real world.

They have their place, such as a new company which is growing extremely quickly and requires new processes and also to ensure it is following certain compliance. I've dealt with one who was particularly brilliant in this field.

However, I agree that those are as rare as hens teeth and there are a lot of grifters.

Sent from my SM-S928B using Tapatalk

 

[Captain Sinister]

This 100%. Refereeing is NOT easy in the Prem. There is no bottomless pit of ready made referees out there waiting to replace Oliver etc. And the abuse. How many of you get yelled at constantly (even when you are correct) in your current jobs? I guess if you are a cop or a politician, sure. Otherwise highly doubtful any of you endure the insults, comments and insinuations levelled at refs. And this ongoing simplistic way of saying two situations are exactly the same when virtually no two situations are EVER exactly the same. Every single tackle is different from the others before and going forward. That is the one comment constantly directed at refereeing decisions that is flat out wrong. Similar is not exactly the same.

It's obvious many of you hate referees and that fact is set in stone and it isn't going to change anytime soon. And I think any ref who has been around understands this. But it's a VERY tough job to do properly. Taylor, as an example, is constantly subjected to a torrent of abuse and yet, somehow, he keeps on getting assigned to the Champions League, to internationals, and to major tournaments. So the people at FIFA and UEFA are, apparently, just as clueless as the people from PGMOL. Maybe a few of you should reflect on how Anthony Taylor can constantly get plum assignments even though he is, seemingly, the worst referee on planet Earth.

The issue many have with Taylor is not that he is the worst referee ever, it is that he is an arrogant bastard who appears to enjoy dropping bollocks when Forest are involved. In some jobs howlers like he commits cannot be tolerated.

 

[Flaggers]

This 100%. Refereeing is NOT easy in the Prem. There is no bottomless pit of ready made referees out there waiting to replace Oliver etc. And the abuse. How many of you get yelled at constantly (even when you are correct) in your current jobs? I guess if you are a cop or a politician, sure. Otherwise highly doubtful any of you endure the insults, comments and insinuations levelled at refs. And this ongoing simplistic way of saying two situations are exactly the same when virtually no two situations are EVER exactly the same. Every single tackle is different from the others before and going forward. That is the one comment constantly directed at refereeing decisions that is flat out wrong. Similar is not exactly the same.

It's obvious many of you hate referees and that fact is set in stone and it isn't going to change anytime soon. And I think any ref who has been around understands this. But it's a VERY tough job to do properly. Taylor, as an example, is constantly subjected to a torrent of abuse and yet, somehow, he keeps on getting assigned to the Champions League, to internationals, and to major tournaments. So the people at FIFA and UEFA are, apparently, just as clueless as the people from PGMOL. Maybe a few of you should reflect on how Anthony Taylor can constantly get plum assignments even though he is, seemingly, the worst referee on planet Earth.

I don't hate referees.

I hate referees who fail to exercise anything approaching consistency within a game.

 

[Flaggers]

This 100%. Refereeing is NOT easy in the Prem. There is no bottomless pit of ready made referees out there waiting to replace Oliver etc. And the abuse. How many of you get yelled at constantly (even when you are correct) in your current jobs? I guess if you are a cop or a politician, sure. Otherwise highly doubtful any of you endure the insults, comments and insinuations levelled at refs. And this ongoing simplistic way of saying two situations are exactly the same when virtually no two situations are EVER exactly the same. Every single tackle is different from the others before and going forward. That is the one comment constantly directed at refereeing decisions that is flat out wrong. Similar is not exactly the same.

It's obvious many of you hate referees and that fact is set in stone and it isn't going to change anytime soon. And I think any ref who has been around understands this. But it's a VERY tough job to do properly. Taylor, as an example, is constantly subjected to a torrent of abuse and yet, somehow, he keeps on getting assigned to the Champions League, to internationals, and to major tournaments. So the people at FIFA and UEFA are, apparently, just as clueless as the people from PGMOL. Maybe a few of you should reflect on how Anthony Taylor can constantly get plum assignments even though he is, seemingly, the worst referee on planet Earth.

In so many industries, people are promoted to their level of incompetence.

 

[Bing Crosby's Head]

It's obvious many of you hate referees and that fact is set in stone and it isn't going to change anytime soon. And I think any ref who has been around understands this. But it's a VERY tough job to do properly. Taylor, as an example, is constantly subjected to a torrent of abuse and yet, somehow, he keeps on getting assigned to the Champions League, to internationals, and to major tournaments. So the people at FIFA and UEFA are, apparently, just as clueless as the people from PGMOL. Maybe a few of you should reflect on how Anthony Taylor can constantly get plum assignments even though he is, seemingly, the worst referee on planet Earth.

Is this the same Anthony Taylor recently found by UEFA to have incorrectly not given a penalty that cost Germany their quarter final at Euro 2024? We shall see what happens to his plum assignments post that (and I have nothing against him or referees by the way).

 

[Strummer]

It's obvious many of you hate referees...

No, many of us don’t.

I watch German football every week, and as I’m sure you know, Germany has some superb - amateur! - referees, Dr. Felix Brych and Deniz Aytekin are two I have massive respect for, along with Florian Badstübner, (who refereed a superb game last Sunday between the VfB and Dortmund, letting the game flow, and when he had to issue a card or stop play, he was pretty much perfect). Harm Osmers is another good one.

The best referees are the ones you don’t notice, because they let the game go, and don’t get caught up in nonsense.

Far too many Premier League officials want it to be all about them. And they make - far too many - mistakes, and won’t hold their hands up to them. And this has potentially huge effects, as a couple of bad calls can cost teams points (Forest know all about that!) and could be the difference between relegation or staying on the 200m gravy train.

I’ve said it before on here, the PL should do what the Bundesliga does; if there is a controversial decision, ask the man in black (or yellow or green occasionally) to come and face the cameras at the end of the match and explain the reasoning behind the decision.

Yes, sometimes mistakes are made, but if the official explained the decision in good faith, then it’s much more acceptable, rather than the seemingly constant bullshit that the PL does, where PGMOL are some sort of unaccountable, untouchable group, who cannot possibly be wrong.

 

[Gyros Peter]

I hate bad referees; good ones I like.

 

[Rubics]

I don’t think VAR helps refs - it’s like doing your job with your boss constantly looking over your shoulder correcting every little mistake. They’d all be better without it and have far more understanding from me.

 

[Erik]

Maybe a few of you should reflect on how Anthony Taylor can constantly get plum assignments even though he is, seemingly, the worst referee on planet Earth.

Boris Johnson got to be Prime Minister.

Competence and integrity are absolutely no reflection of position.

 

[PynchonForest]

No, many of us don’t.

I watch German football every week, and as I’m sure you know, Germany has some superb - amateur! - referees, Dr. Felix Brych and Deniz Aytekin are two I have massive respect for, along with Florian Badstübner, (who refereed a superb game last Sunday between the VfB and Dortmund, letting the game flow, and when he had to issue a card or stop play, he was pretty much perfect). Harm Osmers is another good one.

The best referees are the ones you don’t notice, because they let the game go, and don’t get caught up in nonsense.

Far too many Premier League officials want it to be all about them. And they make - far too many - mistakes, and won’t hold their hands up to them. And this has potentially huge effects, as a couple of bad calls can cost teams points (Forest know all about that!) and could be the difference between relegation or staying on the 200m gravy train.

I’ve said it before on here, the PL should do what the Bundesliga does; if there is a controversial decision, ask the man in black (or yellow or green occasionally) to come and face the cameras at the end of the match and explain the reasoning behind the decision.

Yes, sometimes mistakes are made, but if the official explained the decision in good faith, then it’s much more acceptable, rather than the seemingly constant bullshit that the PL does, where PGMOL are some sort of unaccountable, untouchable group, who cannot possibly be wrong.

See, I disagree with you here on a few points. As a ref I want people to notice that I a) let games flow (this is, quite literally, my modus operandi when I referee) and b) get my decisions right. When I was a second year referee and moving rapidly, for a brief time, I thought games were about me. For a few months, maybe. Part of that was a mentality from some of the local refs that it was "my game" when I went out to referee. I quickly realized it wasn't "my game"--it was about the players and coaches, and my mentality shifted. And I became a better referee because of it. I don't think the guys in the Prem think the game is about them. They may appear arrogant and whatnot but when people are questioning every single call (watch how often players complain about even the most obvious fouls) then at some point it becomes tiresome and you have to present a certain aura when you are out there or the players will eat you for lunch, because the players are like wolverines---if they sense you lack confidence etc they will jump on that and get as much from it as they possibly can. The players in the Bundesliga don't act like the players in the EPL. Similar, but the emotional reactions are far more muted and that is probably part of the German mentality in contrast to the English mentality. They aren't dramatically different, but there is enough differentiation to make things a bit more tenuous reffing EPL games. AS for answering teh media, a fundamentally good idea. BUT the media in Germany, and the media in England, are very different kettles of fish. And that, in itself, creates issues that will make it difficult for EPL refs to go in front of the cam post match and explain things. The English media are infamous for overturning every last rock to find some sort of scandal. Not certain the German media possess quite as flamboyant of a mentality. I do, quite often, tell young refs here to watch Bundesliga games and wathc the referees, because I do think German refs are probably as good as you will find on this planet. But the league is different and it's a bit easier to manage.

 

[PynchonForest]

Boris Johnson got to be Prime Minister.

Competence and integrity are absolutely no reflection of position.

Nice that you use a politician here. Hey, it's your neighbours who voted him in. The USA voted in a blatant con man. Refs are not voted in, they go through a process. It's not an apt comparison at all man. I think questioning the integrity of people who have never been found to do anything wrong other than blow a foul decision on a football pitch is kinda trite.

 

[PynchonForest]

I hate bad referees; good ones I like.

Every single referee will have bad games. I saw Collina absolutely shit the bed a few times. And he is perceived as the greatest. It's an occupational hazard. Sometimes you are just going to see a few things the wrong way, and all it takes is a few blatant errors a for everyone to start yelling for the referees head. When a ref is having a shocker, he can't, unlike players, be subbed off. He just has to weather the storm. There are days I showed up as a player and every ball I hit was exactly where I wanted it to go, every shot a took I hit sweetly. And other days a ten yard pass was a chore lol. Sometimes people are on, and sometimes they are not. When a ref is a bit off, it's a very lonely place, and you have no option to get out of the spotlight. Something to consider.

 

[Rzar]

The PGMOL are the problem. They have too much power & are far too secretive. It's like a spin off wing of the Gestapo in the way they operate.

I don't think the referees are inherently terrible. Oliver is a good of a ref than anybody. I have never seen Graham Scott ref a bad game, he's been a ref for 10 years in the Prem but the chances are you haven't even heard of him because he is good at what he does.

But there is a group of them that don't act impartial & think the game is all about them. The whole organisation lacks any kind of leadership or accountability. Webb has done a shocking job ever since he joined the PGMOL, he needs binning - but who is in a position to bin him? Which is my point.

 

[Strummer]

The PGMOL are the problem. They have too much power & are far too secretive. It's like a spin off wing of the Gestapo in the way they operate.

The Gestapo were probably more honest. At least you know where they stood.

 

[GOBIAS]

I don’t hate referees. I recognise they have an impossible job, made harder by the idiots higher up making the rules harder to apply.

Taylor is someone who the balance of probabilities would say holds a grudge. He’s an officious little wanker, constantly ****s up and unsurprisingly is despised by many fanbases. How many refs are despised by so many different clubs?

 

[Strummer]

See, I disagree with you here on a few points. As a ref I want people to notice that I a) let games flow (this is, quite literally, my modus operandi when I referee) and b) get my decisions right. When I was a second year referee and moving rapidly, for a brief time, I thought games were about me. For a few months, maybe. Part of that was a mentality from some of the local refs that it was "my game" when I went out to referee. I quickly realized it wasn't "my game"--it was about the players and coaches, and my mentality shifted. And I became a better referee because of it. I don't think the guys in the Prem think the game is about them. They may appear arrogant and whatnot but when people are questioning every single call (watch how often players complain about even the most obvious fouls) then at some point it becomes tiresome and you have to present a certain aura when you are out there or the players will eat you for lunch, because the players are like wolverines---if they sense you lack confidence etc they will jump on that and get as much from it as they possibly can. The players in the Bundesliga don't act like the players in the EPL. Similar, but the emotional reactions are far more muted and that is probably part of the German mentality in contrast to the English mentality. They aren't dramatically different, but there is enough differentiation to make things a bit more tenuous reffing EPL games. AS for answering teh media, a fundamentally good idea. BUT the media in Germany, and the media in England, are very different kettles of fish. And that, in itself, creates issues that will make it difficult for EPL refs to go in front of the cam post match and explain things. The English media are infamous for overturning every last rock to find some sort of scandal. Not certain the German media possess quite as flamboyant of a mentality. I do, quite often, tell young refs here to watch Bundesliga games and wathc the referees, because I do think German refs are probably as good as you will find on this planet. But the league is different and it's a bit easier to manage.

Bundesliga players often say that they know where they stand with Bundesliga Referees. Because they are consistent.

I am not sure that is the same in the PL, given the maddening inconsistency of PL officials. And their refusal to acknowledge when they have blatantly messed up.

And as for the German attitude, I wonder how that would affect the VfB, given in Sundays game, in addition to Germans, they fielded two Frenchmen, a Swiss, a Malian, a Japanese, and a Bosnian-Herzegovinian.

Dortmund fielded a Guinean, an Austrian, a Swiss, a Norwegian, a Brazilian, a Nigerian, a Dutchman and an Englishman. And some Germans.

And if you think emotional reactions are more muted in German football, sheesh, go and check out the video I posted in the „European Football“ thread after the VfB-BVB game. Do you see that in the PL? Because you see it, every single week, in the Bundesliga.

(Oh and if you think parts of Germany‘s media aren’t as rancid as their English colleagues, you’ve never read Bild).

 

[Erik]

I think questioning the integrity of people who have never been found to do anything wrong other than blow a foul decision on a football pitch is kinda trite.

Or in this case, whilst not on the football pitch, interfere with a decision one of his colleagues has made which has been deemed to be correct to turn it into an incorrect decision against a team where he was previously criticised for a series of wrong 'decisions' that the club publicly questioned?

Nothing to see here at all. No doubting his integrity at all, mostly because he doesn't know what it is.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I don't have refs, but I hate how the PGMOL and Howard Webb close rank and refute any criticism rather than, you know, address the problems they have.

Our match against Everton last year was a sham, and the only suitable thing after that would have been an apology and a "we'll work on getting it right" but instead we got gaslighted with an "only one of the decisions may have been wrong but it was 50/50".

If they were more open as an organisation to advice, criticism and worked more closely with the clubs then they wouldn't get the vitriol they get. But they don't, they know best, and half the time they ruin the game. Not just through bad decisions in the split moment, but through the shitty use of VAR, and the constant rule changes none of which ever improve the game. Remember in our first season back then an obviously offside player could suddenly be onside if the defender made an attempt to play the ball?

Take a back seat guys. We genuinely don't want to be talking about you every week. We know it's hard to ref at the sort of level the PL is at, so just make it easier for yourself.