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Financial Fair Play (FFP)

DocForest

First Team Squad
I serously believe any punishment they may receive won't be in the form of relegation, because if it were the sheer scale of their misdemeanors must ensure that at best they drop into the National League. As such, any case and resulting sanction against them will doubtlessly be the biggest fudge in the history of legal challenges in sport.
They'll probably let them win whatever they can this season and then give them a 15pt deduction one day into the start of next season. Makes it more exciting for the masses to see if they can get into the top 4
 

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
I serously believe any punishment they may receive won't be in the form of relegation, because if it were the sheer scale of their misdemeanors must ensure that at best they drop into the National League. Any case and resulting sanction against them will doubtlessly be the biggest fudge in the history of sport.
Certainly at least on a technical level, the clubs moving every season between the EFL and EPL need to transfer their golden shares to one another. This is where the deadlines matter (!) because the membership expires I think at the end of June, at the annual meeting the relegated clubs transfer their membership to the promoted ones.

Usually this is a formality because sides relegated are in good standing with the league but we know when we were in L1 with Leeds and they got their points deducted there was also talk at that stage they might not be able to start the season if they didn't meet the EFL's conditions for their golden share and eventually they did and one of those conditions was that they would accept the 15 point deduction... So presumably City would need to be in good enough standing for the EFL and its members to accept the club into their division.

It was similar in Scotland when Rangers collapsed a few years back and had to restart into the 4th division. When they reformed the SPL members chose not to accept the new club so they had to go to the SFL who insisted they started as a new team as new members at the very bottom. Doing so would be unfair on the clubs who had been there already and had played by the financial rules in as much as not being made insolvent.

It would be similar here. Why should the likes of Sunderland, Ipswich, Southampton etc who have (recently at least) played by the rules all of a sudden have City dumped into the CH because they (if guilty) fiddled the books to win trophies. The same basic logic applies down the divisions too.

Would City's misdemeanours mean the EFL wouldn't accept them as a member anyway?

It could easily be the catalyst for them to move to another league entirely, maybe for the top clubs to break away and do what they always wanted. It'd be bad for the PL for the "other 14" to then (presumably with 6 EFL clubs) to be the product, though it would certainly be more interesting without at least at the start the same teams equipped to dominate and consolidate their own dominance.

I wouldn't relegate city, not by direct punishment anyway, and a fine is seemingly also going to be irrelevant, when there's already points gone off Everton and maybe also more plus us this season for much lesser offences.

But being knocked off their perch and pushed back into mid table would probably hurt them more than anything, they stay in the PL but have to start the next 3 seasons on -20 or something, enough to put them into about 10/11th max without them being able to do anything about it, but not too much to push them into a relegation battle because of the consequences of doing so. Also with them straight away dropping out of the UEFA qualification they would be less attractive to potential signings anyway which would feed itself. Pep would probably also leave so they'd be looking at a lesser manager at the same time.
 

DocForest

First Team Squad
Certainly at least on a technical level, the clubs moving every season between the EFL and EPL need to transfer their golden shares to one another. This is where the deadlines matter (!) because the membership expires I think at the end of June, at the annual meeting the relegated clubs transfer their membership to the promoted ones.

Usually this is a formality because sides relegated are in good standing with the league but we know when we were in L1 with Leeds and they got their points deducted there was also talk at that stage they might not be able to start the season if they didn't meet the EFL's conditions for their golden share and eventually they did and one of those conditions was that they would accept the 15 point deduction... So presumably City would need to be in good enough standing for the EFL and its members to accept the club into their division.

It was similar in Scotland when Rangers collapsed a few years back and had to restart into the 4th division. When they reformed the SPL members chose not to accept the new club so they had to go to the SFL who insisted they started as a new team as new members at the very bottom. Doing so would be unfair on the clubs who had been there already and had played by the financial rules in as much as not being made insolvent.

It would be similar here. Why should the likes of Sunderland, Ipswich, Southampton etc who have (recently at least) played by the rules all of a sudden have City dumped into the CH because they (if guilty) fiddled the books to win trophies. The same basic logic applies down the divisions too.

Would City's misdemeanours mean the EFL wouldn't accept them as a member anyway?

It could easily be the catalyst for them to move to another league entirely, maybe for the top clubs to break away and do what they always wanted. It'd be bad for the PL for the "other 14" to then (presumably with 6 EFL clubs) to be the product, though it would certainly be more interesting without at least at the start the same teams equipped to dominate and consolidate their own dominance.

I wouldn't relegate city, not by direct punishment anyway, and a fine is seemingly also going to be irrelevant, when there's already points gone off Everton and maybe also more plus us this season for much lesser offences.

But being knocked off their perch and pushed back into mid table would probably hurt them more than anything, they stay in the PL but have to start the next 3 seasons on -20 or something, enough to put them into about 10/11th max without them being able to do anything about it, but not too much to push them into a relegation battle because of the consequences of doing so. Also with them straight away dropping out of the UEFA qualification they would be less attractive to potential signings anyway which would feed itself. Pep would probably also leave so they'd be looking at a lesser manager at the same time.
A 20 point deduction would have put them 5th last season.
A 15 point deduction would have meant they would still have qualiied for the CL which is exactly what they would want them to do.
 

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
However strumm as I said it’s also made German footy very boring. As it locks in the rich clubs.

Pays your money takes your choice I suppose. Football needs a worldwide salary cap more than anything. Players should be paid well but they are overpaid and it means fans struggle to own clubs as they don’t have enough money. I like the 50+1 model with a worldwide salary cap. That would work very well.
German football is absolutely not boring.

The matchday atmosphere pisses all over anything the Premier League can offer, attacking play is prized, and everyone else is catching up with Bayern. Finally.

Sides mostly play a high-energy pressing game, with the emphasis on not just sitting back and defending. The German top flight is consistently the league with the highest number of goals per match of Europe’s major divisions too.

And that’s before we even get to the rather raucous fan-culture, which again tops anything the Premier League and the majority of its plastic day-trippers can offer.

But of course, if you’d rather watch ten men sit deep in a boring low-block and try not to concede for 90 minutes, then crack on.
 

Berkshire Red

Jack Armstrong
German football is absolutely not boring.

The matchday atmosphere pisses all over anything the Premier League can offer, attacking play is prized, and everyone else is catching up with Bayern. Finally.

Sides mostly play a high-energy pressing game, with the emphasis on not just sitting back and defending. The German top flight is consistently the league with the highest number of goals per match of Europe’s major divisions too.

And that’s before we even get to the rather raucous fan-culture, which again tops anything the Premier League and the majority of its plastic day-trippers can offer.

But of course, if you’d rather watch ten men sit deep in a boring low-block and try not to concede for 90 minutes, then crack on.
19 teams playing to see who can be the first of the losers behind Bayern. 🤔
 

EmmersonForest4

Steve Chettle
German football is absolutely not boring.

The matchday atmosphere pisses all over anything the Premier League can offer, attacking play is prized, and everyone else is catching up with Bayern. Finally.

Sides mostly play a high-energy pressing game, with the emphasis on not just sitting back and defending. The German top flight is consistently the league with the highest number of goals per match of Europe’s major divisions too.

And that’s before we even get to the rather raucous fan-culture, which again tops anything the Premier League and the majority of its plastic day-trippers can offer.

But of course, if you’d rather watch ten men sit deep in a boring low-block and try not to concede for 90 minutes, then crack on.
When I said boring I mean it’s boring Bayern win the league for 10 years.
 

Carlos

Massive Member
I'm going with my own experience and someone who watches the German league week in week out here...
 

Timothy Pope

I know that Nuno that I know that Nuno that I know
German football is absolutely not boring.

The matchday atmosphere pisses all over anything the Premier League can offer, attacking play is prized, and everyone else is catching up with Bayern. Finally.

Sides mostly play a high-energy pressing game, with the emphasis on not just sitting back and defending. The German top flight is consistently the league with the highest number of goals per match of Europe’s major divisions too.

And that’s before we even get to the rather raucous fan-culture, which again tops anything the Premier League and the majority of its plastic day-trippers can offer.

But of course, if you’d rather watch ten men sit deep in a boring low-block and try not to concede for 90 minutes, then crack on.
Ok - who poked the bear?
 
19 teams playing to see who can be the first of the losers behind Bayern. 🤔
Bayer Leverkusen now 5 ahead of Bayern having played each other twice now.

Borussia Dortmund pulled themselves into pole position last year, then fell at the final hurdle.

Think there have been some other close run title races during Bayern and their run too..this could see a changing of the guard.

Did in Italy when Juventus finally deposed, both Milan clubs and Napoli have won the title in the last few years.
 

dr_horse

Geoff Thomas
I don't think we can accuse other leagues of being boring when Man City piss the league pretty much every year.

Spoiler: they'll win the league this year too.
It will be 6 wins in 7 for man city if they win this year.

Man U won it 75% of the time over a 21 year stretch.

Liverpool similar over 15 years, although that was before my time.

Don't give a shit who's winning the league if it isn't Forest, just enjoy watching football.




Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk
 

Collymore!

Grenville Morris
I realised tonight how much the FFP situation has utterly destroyed being able to enjoy football, and fans no longer have the ability to plan survival scenarios based on wins/losses, or points needed.

The whole situation makes watching football as a hobby, or for the enjoyment completely moot. No matter a win or loss, we can be hit with an unknown point deduction at any moment, which makes the Premier League as a spectacle utterly pointless.

It’s like Forest and Everton play their games with the sword of Damocles hanging over them. We could win the next four games and get a 12 point penalty, we could lose every game this season and get away with a fine.

Clubs no longer win/relegated based on sporting merits, but by arbitrary rules which change when the wind blows.

I’ll be utterly annoyed for many years that we fans have ended up in this position. (The club absolutely deserves to be punished). Ridiculous we couldn’t stick to FFP, and ridiculous this is the quality of squad we’re left with after spending multiple hundreds of millions.

We’re the same club behind the scenes we’ve been since the 90’s, lack of process, structure and long-term vision. Happy we fluked the last two seasons though, great years with Steve which I’ll remember fondly.
 
I realised tonight how much the FFP situation has utterly destroyed being able to enjoy football, and fans no longer have the ability to plan survival scenarios based on wins/losses, or points needed.
The whole situation makes watching football as a hobby, or for the enjoyment completely moot. No matter a win or loss, we can be hit with an unknown point deduction at any moment, which makes the Premier League as a spectacle utterly pointless.

It’s like Forest and Everton play their games with the sword of Damocles hanging over them. We could win the next four games and get a 12 point penalty, we could lose every game this season and get away with a fine.

Clubs no longer win/relegated based on sporting merits, but by arbitrary rules which change when the wind blows.

I’ll be utterly annoyed for many years that we fans have ended up in this position. (The club absolutely deserves to be punished). Ridiculous we couldn’t stick to FFP, and ridiculous this is the quality of squad we’re left with after spending multiple hundreds of millions.

We’re the same club behind the scenes we’ve been since the 90’s, lack of process, structure and long-term vision. Happy we fluked the last two seasons though, great years with Steve which I’ll remember fondly.
Completely agree, it's ruined the season for me, even if we're stay up, i'm not enjoying it for the reasons you mentioned

It's just sucked the joy out of it and i'd still feel similar had we won today
 

chaospunx

Geoff Thomas
It has ruined the season and ill reserve judgement untill everything is clearer but the rules were known they might be shit but if we breached them it's the club itself that has ruined the season not the EPL in my opinion the one thing I will say is surely this whole thing could be sped up
 

Eddie Yates

I ♥️ Nigel Farage 🇬🇧
Absolutely spot on. I don't recall the 80's, I was too little, but from what I have been told, and from what I see now, the EPL is an incredibly succesful business but incredibly bad for football.

Look at France. Top players, World Cup and Euro wins, fantastic facilities at town and village level, not just 'elite' level. Ligue Un is getting better, great stadia too, but it's not just about the b'big clubs' there. and income generation, it's about ... football.
It's a farmers league that nobody gives a toss about
 

Eddie Yates

I ♥️ Nigel Farage 🇬🇧
German football is absolutely not boring.

The matchday atmosphere pisses all over anything the Premier League can offer, attacking play is prized, and everyone else is catching up with Bayern. Finally.

Sides mostly play a high-energy pressing game, with the emphasis on not just sitting back and defending. The German top flight is consistently the league with the highest number of goals per match of Europe’s major divisions too.

And that’s before we even get to the rather raucous fan-culture, which again tops anything the Premier League and the majority of its plastic day-trippers can offer.

But of course, if you’d rather watch ten men sit deep in a boring low-block and try not to concede for 90 minutes, then crack on.
You bin on the crackpipe again Strum

The Bundesliga has about as much credibility as the SPL

Of course there's loads of goals, it's because no f***er can defend properly
 

Eddie Yates

I ♥️ Nigel Farage 🇬🇧
I realised tonight how much the FFP situation has utterly destroyed being able to enjoy football, and fans no longer have the ability to plan survival scenarios based on wins/losses, or points needed.

The whole situation makes watching football as a hobby, or for the enjoyment completely moot. No matter a win or loss, we can be hit with an unknown point deduction at any moment, which makes the Premier League as a spectacle utterly pointless.

It’s like Forest and Everton play their games with the sword of Damocles hanging over them. We could win the next four games and get a 12 point penalty, we could lose every game this season and get away with a fine.

Clubs no longer win/relegated based on sporting merits, but by arbitrary rules which change when the wind blows.

I’ll be utterly annoyed for many years that we fans have ended up in this position. (The club absolutely deserves to be punished). Ridiculous we couldn’t stick to FFP, and ridiculous this is the quality of squad we’re left with after spending multiple hundreds of millions.

We’re the same club behind the scenes we’ve been since the 90’s, lack of process, structure and long-term vision. Happy we fluked the last two seasons though, great years with Steve which I’ll remember fondly.
"Fluked the last 2 seasons"

That's a load of bollocks, you can't fluke a 46 game season
 

Collymore!

Grenville Morris
"Fluked the last 2 seasons"

That's a load of bollocks, you can't fluke a 46 game season

I didn’t mean fluked from a on-field performance perspective, Steve had us in the best playing form in decades.

I meant fluked from an organisational / business point-of-view. Steve managed to make lemonade from lemons.
 

Cortez the Killer

Impressive member
For one moment, I thought that said "ponce" then.

Let them get interested. Just makes the EPL's position even worse. Threats of legal action here, there and everywhere will make the EPL just wonder exactly what they have started.
This is my thinking. Sanctions including point deductions would open a legal minefield, so surely it makes them more likely to impose financial punishments like a fine? Perhaps I'm being too naive.

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk
 

Lady Penelope

First Team Squad
It's a farmers league that nobody gives a toss about
I have to disagree. There are top clubs there with facilities that put us to shame. My point was that the money is driven down (not trickles, driven) to grassroots level as can be seen in the great set-ups that local clubs have ... and by the number of French players in the 'bigger leagues'.
 
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