The ‘I have something to say about Forest that doesn’t warrant its own thread’ Thread

[jamferg]

Heads back in freezer

 

[Timothy Pope]

Updated charts (Yeah. I'm shit at updating them every week!)

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

That toppun looks like a plastic linked snake my kids used to play with.

 

[Gyros Peter]

Wonder if we end up with Stephen Reid in the dugout again v Burnley - maybe even Chelsea which would be a pretty incendiary move by the PL/FA, which at this point you have to expect.

 

[IvorThirst]

Steve Sutton has not had his BBC Radio Nottingham commentary contract renewed, he will not be on air again.
Dont think anyone will miss him

 

[Huxley]

This relegation/battle with the powers that be is all very exciting and everything, but when will Forest get round to making those pink socks they now wear with the third kit available in the shop?

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Steve Sutton has not had his BBC Radio Nottingham commentary contract renewed, he will not be on air again.
Dont think anyone will miss him

Bit harsh, that

 

[Lady Penelope]

I need a bit of relief from the stress and tension of this season, so I started to think about the things that I really like about Forest, and also the things that I'm not happy about.

I like: the two stewards in the UBC who get the dancing going to Freed from Desire / the crowd getting behind the team / the Forza displays.

I'm not happy about: the state of the stadium, especially the women's toilet facilities / brown nosing Ben Bradley and Sunak / the announcements about announcements which lead to nothing.

there's more, lots more, but this helps to take my mind off the other bad stuff and the worries about the league position.

 

[valspoodle]

In the good old days when I lived far from the club and the only contact was Sports Report on a Saturday or the odd snippet in the newspapers, it was much more fun because it was only the football on the pitch which mattered. I had no knowledge of the inner workings of the club, player behaviour etc.

Now there is so much more, but we still know very little actual fact about events. Mostly it's just rumour laced with the occasional club statement, so the whole thing is so nerve-wracking trying to make sense of it all.

 

[Berkshire Red]

In the good old days when I lived far from the club and the only contact was Sports Report on a Saturday or the odd snippet in the newspapers, it was much more fun because it was only the football on the pitch which mattered. I had no knowledge of the inner workings of the club, player behaviour etc.

Now there is so much more, but we still know very little actual fact about events. Mostly it's just rumour laced with the occasional club statement, so the whole thing is so nerve-wracking trying to make sense of it all.

This, many, many times over.

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

so the whole thing is so nerve-wracking trying to make sense of it all.

Don't bother Vals, it's really not worth it mate.

 

[Timothy Pope]

Updated charts attached.
We got a big bonus in the head to head charts this week as last season's corresponding fixture was the 4-0 drubbing at Leicester. We're still not going to finish the season better than last season on points or league position (regardless of points deductions) but the GD comparison shows we've been more competitive within games. It's something to build on for next season should we survive the drop.

 

[Gyros Peter]

View attachment 39064
View attachment 39065
View attachment 39066
View attachment 39067

Updated charts attached.
We got a big bonus in the head to head charts this week as last season's corresponding fixture was the 4-0 drubbing at Leicester. We're still not going to finish the season better than last season on points or league position (regardless of points deductions) but the GD comparison shows we've been more competitive within games. It's something to build on for next season should we survive the drop.

It's been such a difficult season - I remember at the start thinking we'll be fine when we start turning these draws in to wins, then the wheels fell off and desperation crept in.

If we can get over the final hurdle I definitely agree there's something to build on, but think if I'm honest we are a good eight or so players off a truly competitive squad. It's not going to be easy to pull that together over a year, even if we keep all of the best ones.

Expect another difficult one next year, though hopefully the promoted sides struggle again. How well we can do depends on recruitment on retention for me...

 

[REDDERS78]

It's been such a difficult season - I remember at the start thinking we'll be fine when we start turning these draws in to wins, then the wheels fell off and desperation crept in.

If we can get over the final hurdle I definitely agree there's something to build on, but think if I'm honest we are a good eight or so players off a truly competitive squad. It's not going to be easy to pull that together over a year, even if we keep all of the best ones.

Expect another difficult one next year, though hopefully the promoted sides struggle again. How well we can do depends on recruitment on retention for me...

Personally I think the players and managers have underperformed massively this season, I don't look at that squad and think it should be competing with Luton for a relegation spot, not a chance.

Irrespective of who we do or don't bring in its been a very very poor season and next year it needs to improve, We've had 2 seasons of it now, we know the league, just get on with it. Bournemouth and Fulham have pushed on now and there's no reason why we shouldn't be doing the same. Another season of this should be considered failure in my opinion, Weve played 11 games against bottom 6 sides and picked up 9 points from a possible 33 and that was with a win last week. Not good enough, needs to change if we stay up.

I said this season we should be targeting 44-46 points and I'd put that figure on next year now too.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Progress being made, but if we survive we need to make serious inroads into:
1 defending set pieces;
2 making better use of attacking set pieces;
3 pressing opponents in midfield more assertively.
Forest in both seasons in the Prem have not quite shaken off the new boys at big school image.

 

[Gyros Peter]

Personally I think the players and managers have underperformed massively this season, I don't look at that squad and think it should be competing with Luton for a relegation spot, not a chance.

Irrespective of who we do or don't bring in its been a very very poor season and next year it needs to improve, We've had 2 seasons of it now, we know the league, just get on with it. Bournemouth and Fulham have pushed on now and there's no reason why we shouldn't be doing the same. Another season of this should be considered failure in my opinion, Weve played 11 games against bottom 6 sides and picked up 9 points from a possible 33 and that was with a win last week. Not good enough, needs to change if we stay up.

I said this season we should be targeting 44-46 points and I'd put that figure on next year now too.

I think that's ambitious as the squad currently stands. Depth in attacking areas is severely hindering us imho. We can't really switch up in that regard. Obviously having everyone fit helps (Taiwo makes such a difference), but as we are finding we can't really rely there.

If we had decent back up forward options I'd be more inclined to agree, but as it stands I think we have a decent first 11 but not much after that. Fix that and think your target becomes much more realistic.

 

[REDDERS78]

I think that's ambitious as the squad currently stands. Depth in attacking areas is severely hindering us imho. We can't really switch up in that regard. Obviously having everyone fit helps (Taiwo makes such a difference), but as we are finding we can't really rely there.

If we had decent back up forward options I'd be more inclined to agree, but as it stands I think we have a decent first 11 but not much after that. Fix that and think your target becomes much more realistic.

Some of the things that cost us are basic shit though mate. Giving silly fouls away, defensive and attacking set plays, things that can be worked on without lumping a load more cash out. I'm not saying we couldn't do with improving, but that team should be doing far better than we have seen in my opinion.

A lot of dead wood needs shifting too, reduce the squad size and concentrate on players that can actually deliver instead of a load of biscuits and old men.

Not sure if Nuno stays but there's no way he'll want to carry on working with a squad that size.

 

[Timothy Pope]

Personally I think the players and managers have underperformed massively this season, I don't look at that squad and think it should be competing with Luton for a relegation spot, not a chance.

Irrespective of who we do or don't bring in its been a very very poor season and next year it needs to improve, We've had 2 seasons of it now, we know the league, just get on with it. Bournemouth and Fulham have pushed on now and there's no reason why we shouldn't be doing the same. Another season of this should be considered failure in my opinion, Weve played 11 games against bottom 6 sides and picked up 9 points from a possible 33 and that was with a win last week. Not good enough, needs to change if we stay up.

I said this season we should be targeting 44-46 points and I'd put that figure on next year now too.

Bournemouth and Fulham have pushed on having been ‘yo-yo’ clubs for a while. In that time they’ve been able to gradually build their squads. We’ve not had that opportunity.

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

Personally I think the players and managers have underperformed massively this season, I don't look at that squad and think it should be competing with Luton for a relegation spot, not a chance.

Irrespective of who we do or don't bring in its been a very very poor season and next year it needs to improve, We've had 2 seasons of it now, we know the league, just get on with it. Bournemouth and Fulham have pushed on now and there's no reason why we shouldn't be doing the same. Another season of this should be considered failure in my opinion, Weve played 11 games against bottom 6 sides and picked up 9 points from a possible 33 and that was with a win last week. Not good enough, needs to change if we stay up.

I said this season we should be targeting 44-46 points and I'd put that figure on next year now too.

I think we have only beaten Sheff Utd (Home or away) from the bottom half of the league this season.
We have competed against all of the top teams at home - I know we have lost a few, but only Arsenal & Liverpool (2nd half) have outplayed us.
It is too much to expect us to go to the top 6 and pick anything up except the odd draw - which we have done this season @ Newcastle/Chelsea, but our record against the bottom teams is terrible. Games @ Luton/Brentford/Everton/Palace/Fulham have provided 2 points.
You are 100% right - we need to be beating teams around us - and with the quality of players we have, there should be no excuses.

 

[Gyros Peter]

Some of the things that cost us are basic shit though mate. Giving silly fouls away, defensive and attacking set plays, things that can be worked on without lumping a load more cash out. I'm not saying we couldn't do with improving, but that team should be doing far better than we have seen in my opinion.

A lot of dead wood needs shifting too, reduce the squad size and concentrate on players that can actually deliver instead of a load of biscuits and old men.

Not sure if Nuno stays but there's no way he'll want to carry on working with a squad that size.

They are, but that's probably also squad related too - to much chopping and changing defensively (shape to a point too), commanding presences not available with any regularity... I can see with better decisions from refs and decision making among the squad another five to ten points perhaps, but think 20 is a stretch.

Obviously it would help if we do t give four away for free, and loading so many from winning positions too, though see previous answer on depth there really.

Guess my take is more over 38 games you get what you deserve more or less.

 

[Notcher]

It's been such a difficult season - I remember at the start thinking we'll be fine when we start turning these draws in to wins, then the wheels fell off and desperation crept in.

If we can get over the final hurdle I definitely agree there's something to build on, but think if I'm honest we are a good eight or so players off a truly competitive squad. It's not going to be easy to pull that together over a year, even if we keep all of the best ones.

Expect another difficult one next year, though hopefully the promoted sides struggle again. How well we can do depends on recruitment on retention for me...

IIRC Brighton had 3 very difficult seasons when they first came up before they kicked on. Staying in it for 3 years, however you do it is probably the part that it seems you need to achieve before you can then start to move forward with some sustainable progress.

 

[Robertson]

IIRC Brighton had 3 very difficult seasons when they first came up before they kicked on. Staying in it for 3 years, however you do it is probably the part that it seems you need to achieve before you can then start to move forward with some sustainable progress.

I think they also signed a lot of players over that period, not all of which worked out for them.

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

I think they also signed a lot of players over that period, not all of which worked out for them.

I think they also had Chris Hughton as manager for at least one season!

 

[Captain Sinister]

I think we have only beaten Sheff Utd (Home or away) from the bottom half of the league this season.
We have competed against all of the top teams at home - I know we have lost a few, but only Arsenal & Liverpool (2nd half) have outplayed us.
It is too much to expect us to go to the top 6 and pick anything up except the odd draw - which we have done this season @ Newcastle/Chelsea, but our record against the bottom teams is terrible. Games @ Luton/Brentford/Everton/Palace/Fulham have provided 2 points.
You are 100% right - we need to be beating teams around us - and with the quality of players we have, there should be no excuses.

Slight correction: we beat Fulham 3-1 at home after losing 5-0 at the cottage.
Slight difference of opinion: why should we assume we should be beating the teams around us?
The only teams below us are Burnley (drew at home, away game to play), Sheffield (won home, won away), Luton (drew at home, drew away). Then above us we have: Brentford (Drew at home, lost away because of Toney being a cheat, and the ref being incompetent), Everton (Lost home and away), Crystal Palace (Drew Home and Away), Fulham (Lost Away, Won at home), Wolves (Drew Home and Away; won the EFL Quarter Final), Brighton (lost home and away).
Personally, I don't think that is too bad a showing.
The teams above us have all been in the Prem for longer than us (Fulham were promoted with us, but had parachute payments), so have had time to consolidate and build their squads.
You can disect individual matches and identify self-inlicted goals conceded and missed chances, but ALL teams make silly mistakes, and ALL teams miss chances.
If we stay up, we will have our 5th transfer window to build further on the quality of the squad (and shed some players that haven't been good enough), and if we retain Nuno he will have a full summer to work with his squad, no AFCON disruption, and (hopefully) no points deducted.
The bottom half of the Prem and the top half of the Championship were regarded as much of a muchness up until 3 or 4 years ago.
Now the constant lashings of media money, year after year, have put a distance between the 2.
However, the Prem 2 or 3 clear mini-leagues within it: the bottom 6, the middle 8, and the top 6.
If your team is in the bottom 6 it is becoming increasingly difficult to break free in an upward direction.
If you are in the middle 8, ditto - but because of having had several seasons of the media money the middle 8 have really consolidated their middle 8 position.
Any team outside of the unassailable top 6 is almost bound to see a constant churn in players, with any player showing real talent being a target for the top 6.
Forest will have done well to survive this horrible season, and hopefully will continue to consolidate next season.
But anyone expecting us to break free of the bottom 6 next season, let alone make it into the top 10 is perhaps a little too optimistic.

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

Slight correction: we beat Fulham 3-1 at home after losing 5-0 at the cottage.
Slight difference of opinion: why should we assume we should be beating the teams around us?
The only teams below us are Burnley (drew at home, away game to play), Sheffield (won home, won away), Luton (drew at home, drew away). Then above us we have: Brentford (Drew at home, lost away because of Toney being a cheat, and the ref being incompetent), Everton (Lost home and away), Crystal Palace (Drew Home and Away), Fulham (Lost Away, Won at home), Wolves (Drew Home and Away; won the EFL Quarter Final), Brighton (lost home and away).
Personally, I don't think that is too bad a showing.
The teams above us have all been in the Prem for longer than us (Fulham were promoted with us, but had parachute payments), so have had time to consolidate and build their squads.
You can disect individual matches and identify self-inlicted goals conceded and missed chances, but ALL teams make silly mistakes, and ALL teams miss chances.
If we stay up, we will have our 5th transfer window to build further on the quality of the squad (and shed some players that haven't been good enough), and if we retain Nuno he will have a full summer to work with his squad, no AFCON disruption, and (hopefully) no points deducted.
The bottom half of the Prem and the top half of the Championship were regarded as much of a muchness up until 3 or 4 years ago.
Now the constant lashings of media money, year after year, have put a distance between the 2.
However, the Prem 2 or 3 clear mini-leagues within it: the bottom 6, the middle 8, and the top 6.
If your team is in the bottom 6 it is becoming increasingly difficult to break free in an upward direction.
If you are in the middle 8, ditto - but because of having had several seasons of the media money the middle 8 have really consolidated their middle 8 position.
Any team outside of the unassailable top 6 is almost bound to see a constant churn in players, with any player showing real talent being a target for the top 6.
Forest will have done well to survive this horrible season, and hopefully will continue to consolidate next season.
But anyone expecting us to break free of the bottom 6 next season, let alone make it into the top 10 is perhaps a little too optimistic.

I hear what you are saying, but my point was slightly different.
Simply - Generally we play better against the better teams - we need to bring those performances into the games against the lesser teams. With the quality we already have and better defensive organisation that would put us in the 'middle 8' group of clubs.
My complaint is the amount of points thrown away against the lesser clubs