Snatchday 1: Nottingham Forest Vs the PGMOL

[Statto]

Yep, he’s an absolute ****!

I don't mind him, didn't think overall he was a bad ref.

A fair amount of fans on here I think / official forum etc didn't particularly like the Dawson red in the play offs but it was actually the right decision.

 

[GOBIAS]

So Atwell didn’t even check the third penalty shout. How incompetent do you want to be.

The strongest of the shouts as well. As I’ve said this is one of the biggest issues with var. the inconsistencies with when it is implemented. Sometimes they are checking things you can’t fathom as they don’t even look wrong, other things that look bad or clear fouls they don’t check. Who decided this? Why are some checks over in a second and others take minutes? The other day they gave Bournemouth a penalty and went right back to the Villa attack to check for a foul. It was the softest of coming togethers imaginable. Why did they do that? How far can they go back?

 

[sammy the snake]

Getting a bit sinister how demanding a reasonably level playing field is being painted as “victimhood” by all and sundry, to be honest with you.

This is exactly what happens when the whistleblower stands out, you first see closing ranks…. Check… you then see politics and media shut down the conversation… check

It’s absolutely pointing to a system endemic with corruption. Forest are spot on here and deserve credit for stepping outside their f**ked up system

Oh and by the way, no way are Forest going to get anything in this farce, all theyre doing is trying to force positive change which will be for the benefit every club. Little ***** like Neville bury their heads because they’re benefactors of the f*** up.

 

[Robertson]

In the interests of balance - what have we got away with? I don't mean the times where an opponent has been correctly sent off (against CHO vs Bournemouth, Rodri), or that one time we actually got a penalty. I mean the ones where we probably got lucky.

* Turner on Wissa vs Brentford (I maintain this shouldn't be a pen, but they seem to be given, so OK whatever)
* Burnley's disallowed goal for handball - maybe a bit soft but he does handle it so
* Mayyyyybe Danilo vs Spurs, but absolutely no intent there in my opinion.

Is that it ????

 

[Baronvon]

Is there actual confirmation that as to what Attwell did and didn't check?

The third one especially was one of the most blatant penalties I've ever seen. People have debated the other two (though still agreed that there's a solid case for a pen in both instances) but I haven't seen a single person argue against the third being an obvious penalty.

If it wasn't even checked, why even bother with VAR?

 

[oxonred]

Is there actual confirmation that as to what Attwell did and didn't check?

The third one especially was one of the most blatant penalties I've ever seen. People have debated the other two (though still agreed that there's a solid case for a pen in both instances) but I haven't seen a single person argue against the third being an obvious penalty.

If it wasn't even checked, why even bother with VAR?

Collymore argued against the third.

 

[GOBIAS]

Is there actual confirmation that as to what Attwell did and didn't check?

The third one especially was one of the most blatant penalties I've ever seen. People have debated the other two (though still agreed that there's a solid case for a pen in both instances) but I haven't seen a single person argue against the third being an obvious penalty.

If it wasn't even checked, why even bother with VAR?

Or are they saying he didn’t check to save face? What is worse to not have checked or have checked and come to the conclusion that he won the ball. Only Stan Collymore and Huddersfield fans think the last wasn’t a penalty.

 

[GOBIAS]

Collymore argued against the third.

I think he is the only person I’ve seen say it wasn’t a penalty.

 

[sammy the snake]

Is there actual confirmation that as to what Attwell did and didn't check?

The third one especially was one of the most blatant penalties I've ever seen. People have debated the other two (though still agreed that there's a solid case for a pen in both instances) but I haven't seen a single person argue against the third being an obvious penalty.

If it wasn't even checked, why even bother with VAR?

What about the fourth? Holding Yates ?

 

[Statto]

Or are they saying he didn’t check to save face? What is worse to not have checked or have checked and come to the conclusion that he won the ball. Only Stan Collymore and Huddersfield fans think the last wasn’t a penalty.

That proves that Huddersfield fans don't know what a penalty is

 

[GOBIAS]

I don't mind him, didn't think overall he was a bad ref.

A fair amount of fans on here I think / official forum etc didn't particularly like the Dawson red in the play offs but it was actually the right decision.

I think nowadays the Dawson one is undoubtedly a definite red (unless it was committed on Neco Williams).

But at the time it wasn’t a given, and being in such a big game it was a decision out of the ordinary I’d say.

I’ve never liked clattenburg. Always thought he was the worst of the all about me, attention seeking kind of refs. The fact he’s on gladiators and had a hair transplant says it all!

 

[GOBIAS]

What about the fourth? Holding Yates ?

I thought it was wood. They look similar from a distance. People have forgotten about that. I thought it was defo a foul, two defenders on one player. Clear foul for me. If it had been two attackers on one centre half it would have been given before the ball even got there.

 

[oobidoobi]

‎Forest Fan TV - A Nottingham Forest Podcast on Apple Podcasts

‎Sport · 2024

podcasts.apple.com

It’s 1 hr 45 mins long, but recommended!

rather stick pins in me ears but thanks

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

In the interests of balance - what have we got away with? I don't mean the times where an opponent has been correctly sent off (against CHO vs Bournemouth, Rodri), or that one time we actually got a penalty. I mean the ones where we probably got lucky.

* Turner on Wissa vs Brentford (I maintain this shouldn't be a pen, but they seem to be given, so OK whatever)
* Burnley's disallowed goal for handball - maybe a bit soft but he does handle it so
* Mayyyyybe Danilo vs Spurs, but absolutely no intent there in my opinion.

Is that it ????

That's it.

And in the interest of consistency we're going to call the Turner one "minimal contact", the Taylor handball a "subjective 50/50" and we're not even going to talk about the Danilo one because we don't want to.

 

[Baronvon]

In the interests of balance - what have we got away with? I don't mean the times where an opponent has been correctly sent off (against CHO vs Bournemouth, Rodri), or that one time we actually got a penalty. I mean the ones where we probably got lucky.

* Turner on Wissa vs Brentford (I maintain this shouldn't be a pen, but they seem to be given, so OK whatever)
* Burnley's disallowed goal for handball - maybe a bit soft but he does handle it so
* Mayyyyybe Danilo vs Spurs, but absolutely no intent there in my opinion.

Is that it ????

I think the Turner on Wissa one is probably the main one. I mean he was trying to clear the ball so no intent in terms of a foul (which is probably the logic used in not overturning the on field decision) but he still brings him down ultimately. I think we'd have been pissed if it had been the other way around.

The Burnley one seemed harsh on them, but he does control the ball with his arm ultimately so, fair play I guess. It's a slight touch - but it's enough.

So on that basis, we've basically gained potentially one point all season from a contentious VAR decision going our way. We lost against Spurs so whether Danilo was lucky or not was ultimately immaterial to the result.

It's impossible to quantify, but I reckon you could make a fairly convincing argument that we've been cost at least 5 points on account of atrocious decisions going against us. Would have made the world of difference in our current predicament.

 

[GOBIAS]

That's it.

And in the interest of consistency we're going to call the Turner one "minimal contact", the Taylor handball a "subjective 50/50" and we're not even going to talk about the Danilo one because we don't want to.

I still don’t get ones like the Danilo one. That is how we arrived at Boly being red carded.

Danilo kicked a football, nobody was in his arc at the time he kicked it, a spurs player charged in to the space at speed and there was a natural coming together and after the spurs player made a meal of it they looked at it as a red card. I just can’t fathom these things and I get wound up at them when I’m watching as a neutral as well.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Is there actual confirmation that as to what Attwell did and didn't check?

The third one especially was one of the most blatant penalties I've ever seen. People have debated the other two (though still agreed that there's a solid case for a pen in both instances) but I haven't seen a single person argue against the third being an obvious penalty.

If it wasn't even checked, why even bother with VAR?

Aye.

You may not expect to get them given if they all occur individually in different matches, and whilst the third peno shout is the most certain of them all some teams may begrudgingly accept a "no peno" decision for it if it's the only shout in a game and maybe they're winning.

But when circumstances dictate that all 3 shouts occur in 1 game, and the last shout is the most certain, law of averages alone would mean that any none-corrupt organization would give at least one. There's a point that something has to give, and the fact that nothing did on Sun is an incredibly bad look for the PGMOL.

 

[GOBIAS]

The Burnley handball doesn’t it become a handball no matter what as they benefited from it with a goal? I thought any contact on the hand is penalised in that case? I’m not sure though. Is anyone sure

 

[Robertson]

It's impossible to quantify, but I reckon you could make a fairly convincing argument that we've been cost at least 5 points on account of atrocious decisions going against us. Would have made the world of difference in our current predicament.

Also impossible to quantify the effect on player morale.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I think the Turner on Wissa one is probably the main one. I mean he was trying to clear the ball so no intent in terms of a foul (which is probably the logic used in not overturning the on field decision) but he still brings him down ultimately. I think we'd have been pissed if it had been the other way around.

The Burnley one seemed harsh on them, but he does control the ball with his arm ultimately so, fair play I guess. It's a slight touch - but it's enough.

So on that basis, we've basically gained potentially one point all season from a contentious VAR decision going our way. We lost against Spurs so whether Danilo was lucky or not was ultimately immaterial to the result.

It's impossible to quantify, but I reckon you could make a fairly convincing argument that we've been cost at least 5 points on account of atrocious decisions going against us. Would have made the world of difference in our current predicament.

I think I'd peg it closer to 10, maybe even 15 at a push.

Man Utd: Hold on for a draw if either pen for them not given, or our pen given. 1 point gained.
Everton H: Score the pen, finish 1-1. 1 pointed gained.
Bournemouth: Think we win the game if Boly stays on and we get the pen. 3 points gained.
Newcastle: If we get the pen we go onto win so would be 3 points gained, but think it was least likely of our bad decisions to get given so I'll peg to 1 point instead.
Liverpool: We have the ball we don't concede. 1 point gained.
Brentford: Minimum 1 point gained, maybe all 3.
Everton A: Minimum 1 point gained, maybe all 3.
Spurs A: Reckon we still lose that even if Maddison walks.

So net points gained when you account for decisions we've both suffered and benefitted from is at best -8.

 

[Robertson]

The Burnley handball doesn’t it become a handball no matter what as they benefited from it with a goal? I thought any contact on the hand is penalised in that case? I’m not sure though. Is anyone sure

I think you might be right here. To the extent that if it wasn’t disallowed it could potentially rightly go on the list of bad decisions against us. So yeah, probably cross that one off.

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

I think I'd peg it closer to 10, maybe even 15 at a push.

Man Utd: Hold on for a draw if either pen for them not given, or our pen given. 1 point gained.
Everton H: Score the pen, finish 1-1. 1 pointed gained.
Bournemouth: Think we win the game if Boly stays on and we get the pen. 3 points gained.
Newcastle: If we get the pen we go onto win so would be 3 points gained, but think it was least likely of our bad decisions to get given so I'll peg to 1 point instead.
Liverpool: We have the ball we don't concede. 1 point gained.
Brentford: Minimum 1 point gained, maybe all 3.
Everton A: Minimum 1 point gained, maybe all 3.
Spurs A: Reckon we still lose that even if Maddison walks.

So net points gained when you account for decisions we've both suffered and benefitted from is at best -8.

Safe in mid table then @ £2m per place so £10m out of pocket - even if we stay up.

 

[PlayedOnGrass]

Safe in mid table then @ £2m per place so £10m out of pocket - even if we stay up.

Does this count towards P&S losses for next season - or do we lose more points because of it?

 

[Baronvon]

Also impossible to quantify the effect on player morale.

That's the big one for me. So much is made of "having the momentum" in a match and rightly so. Imagine how tense the home crowd would have gotten if we'd have even got one of those penalties (never mind three) and got back on level terms - and how much of a boost it would have given Forest.

It really does make such a difference. I mean let's face it, we've learned this the hard way many, many times over the years when the likes of Yeovil have come back at us. So it's not much of a stretch to suggest we could have easily gone onto to win that game - along with numerous others.

So when our players are faced with the grim reality that they can't even get a penalty when Hudson-Odoi is cleaned out from behind as he runs through on goal, you can't really blame them for thinking that the world is against them.

 

[Robertson]

That's the big one for me. So much is made of "having the momentum" in a match and rightly so. Imagine how tense the home crowd would have gotten if we'd have even got one of those penalties (never mind three) and got back on level terms - and how much of a boost it would have given Forest.

It really does make such a difference. I mean let's face it, we've learned this the hard way many, many times over the years when the likes of Yeovil have come back at us. So it's not much of a stretch to suggest we could have easily gone onto to win that game - along with numerous others.

So when our players are faced with the grim reality that they can't even get a penalty when Hudson-Odoi is cleaned out from behind as he runs through on goal, you can't really blame them for thinking that the world is against them somewhat.

Every Monday morning in training as well. "Right lads, forget the weekend, let's go again" will start to ring hollow after a while. Yeah, yeah, they're all paid a fortune, but this stuff makes a difference, it's undeniable.