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Financial Fair Play (FFP)

Jimmy

Jimmy

First Team Squad
Gyros Peter said:
Luton were winning 5 of their last 6 on here a few weeks ago. Same as last year when whoever else was below us were. Crazy really in the context of the season.
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Until we are mathematically safe people may often assume the worst, it's just human nature. It's not irrational, either; over the years I have seen plenty of odd results in the final few games of a season, that have changed the fortunes of clubs, for better or worse. Sometimes clubs do have an unexpected swan song.

The worst-case scenario is that we don't win another game and both Luton and Burnley win both of theirs, we get no points given back to us, and we get relegated on 29 points.
 
adam09

adam09

Super Koopa
Erik said:
If we get points back it doesn't really matter how many we get. 1 or 2 means Luton have to win their last 2 games by big margins to even have a chance of overhauling us. A token 1 point will suffice for our needs. Even getting nothing means Luton need at least a point at West Ham.
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I'll take a point all day long. If they're scrapping/changing it all next season, us and Everton should get them all back. They've made a right cock up of it all.
 
Listen 'ere young man

Listen 'ere young man

Jack Burkitt
To state the obvious, there is always a chance of either Burnley or Luton winning both their matches, however small it may be.

Many teams have gone in a run of 4 or 5 wins at the end to avoid relegation, 2 isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Not counting any chickens yet, but the stress level is lower, for now.
 
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Gyros Peter

Gyros Peter

Sauce salad?
Listen 'ere young man said:
To state the obvious, there is always a chance of either Burnley or Luton winning both their matches, however small or may be.

Many teams have gone in a run of 4 or 5 wins at the end to avoid relegation, 2 isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Not counting any chickens yet, but the stress level is lower, for now.
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Jimmy said:
Until we are mathematically safe people may often assume the worst, it's just human nature. It's not irrational, either; over the years I have seen plenty of odd results in the final few games of a season, that have changed the fortunes of clubs, for better or worse. Sometimes clubs do have an unexpected swan song.

The worst-case scenario is that we don't win another game and both Luton and Burnley win both of theirs, we get no points given back to us, and we get relegated on 29 points.
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I understand it, but for me it's always about how likely that is - that Luton were going on a run of winning five home games when they haven't showed any signs of that all year is incredibly unlikely, and it's one of those where if they did you'd have to shake them by the hand and say fair play.

We aren't safe yet, but this time next week I hope we will be.
 
Redemption

Redemption

One less gobshite...
B

BristolfaninPeace

Youth Team
Villa_Fan said:
Villa sold their stadium to themselves and exploited a loophole which has since been closed. Yep, it helped us a lot but that is the benefit of having clever management and clever accountants. Villa is now looking for an increase in PSR limit which is probably due to the fact that most other teams can spend 85% of revenue on players/agents/wages while Villa can only spend 70%, that doesn't seem fair. I think you are confusing entitlement with a good management team trying to do their best for the club they work for.
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Clubs should vote it down IMO. Unless of course it suits 14 or more club to raise it.

I get that argument but it appears that Aston Villa are literally trying to bend the rules to their will. EFL should never have opened it anyway, I dunno why they did. Their one year ones to 2015-16 didn't include the loophole ie it seemed to be adjusted out.

See also Stoke that surely helped them quite a bit, mind you so did Covid. Their Covid losses are also dubious I'd say.

Most other clubs who did it have come a cropper eventually be it FFP or papering over some cracks and Aston Villa timed it to perfection and have really been the only ones to fly high off the back of it.

It's not that much to do with clever management Accountants in some ways, Parry has said that loophole ever being open was ridiculous, possibly also down to EFL incompetence that it was.
 
valspoodle

valspoodle

Steve Chettle
In a competitive professional game, the players are never on the beach, unless there is a really good reason for it, They have too much, both financial and on the pitch, to let things go soft.

I remember when I was cabin crew and great friends with a stewardess who was girlfriend of an international cricketer. He came to Chelmsford with his county and we arranged to meet and share a bottle or two. It was a nothing game towards the end of the county championship season and one of the lads hit a half century. All the comments around us (we were in the opposition family and friends tent) were regarding the fifty and that guaranteed his contract for next season.
 
eyupmeduck

eyupmeduck

Geoff Thomas
Notcher said:
It's almost like the PL have been total fuckwits and made a massive rod for their own back.
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Its a massive cock up.

From the widest perspective that they've tried to show muscle in the face of an independent regulator they have so far laid out the case for penalties that the independent panel has wholeheartedly disagreed with. Every. Single. time.

They have also shown that points deductions don't have the sporting impact and actually provide a sporting advantage to teams unimpacted by any sporting advantage that was supposedly gained. Without points deductions we would still be 17th with a slim chance of getting to 16th, Everton would be 12th with the slim chance of getting 8th. If we stay up then the punishment has been ineffective but has given Luton and Burnley false hope of survival. The financial implications for Luton getting relegated might not be too big but

They are timing announcements around fixtures and allow the narrative of "Burnley being relegated without kicking a ball" where they only believe that they have a chance of not going down "without kicking a ball". The inconvenient truth being that they aren't very good at actually kicking the ball in the first place and will probably go doen as a result of that.

The attempt at trying to show strength has made them look weak and inept and actually strengthened the case for a regulator.

Next season we hopefully will still be in the EPL but what we have learned in truth is not to resist signing bucket loads of players, or indeed be sustainable. Our lesson is just that selling a bit early, extending our accounting period and selling property (Would anyone be surprised to see the NDA at Gresham "changing hands" for a big amount?) means we could book a profit we couldn't in the EFL and alow us to once again go mental in the transfer market.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
K

kenred64

A. Trialist
Would also like to see a longer transfer window. Maybe from June through to end of Feb. I am sure there are things that I haven’t considered but I think Trevor Francis was signed in February and I still remember my excitement as a youngster. Would also keep the journos busier and stop some of the nonsense and agendas that they currently pursue.
 
RedRobbo

RedRobbo

Grenville Morris
Villa_Fan said:
I don't believe Forest will get any points back, but I am not saying they should delay communicating the outcome of the appeal I am saying it would be silly to communicate a return of points to Forest if this resulted in a team being relegated. If Forest is to get points back it should have been communicated before this set of fixtures or after Forest secure PL status. Making an announcement on Tue that relegates Luton and Burnley would be very naive
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I get your point but we’ll beg to differ. Any announcement cannot be delayed - it’s in everyone’s interests to declare the result ( whatever that might be ) asap. To continue to delay just compounds an already ridiculous situation.
 
B

Bing Crosby's Head

A. Trialist
kenred64 said:
Would also like to see a longer transfer window. Maybe from June through to end of Feb. I am sure there are things that I haven’t considered but I think Trevor Francis was signed in February and I still remember my excitement as a youngster. Would also keep the journos busier and stop some of the nonsense and agendas that they currently pursue.
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It used to run until end of March but short windows were brought in after Bosman in order to stop total freedom and making contracts meaningless.
 
B

BristolfaninPeace

Youth Team
Villa_Fan said:
The CEO has said we are not in breach so I expect we are fine, also the PL has not charged us with anything which suggests we are okay. However, I expect we are close and have little room for further investment. Clubs in Europe can only spend 70% of revenue on wages whereas clubs in PL can spend 85% with new rules. I expect Villa is trying to get the PSR level increased by 25m next year so that they can invest during this coming window and then reduce the transfer spending in the following year to align with the 70% wage restriction
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The bigger issue is perhaps less to the present season and more to next ie the season whereby the new starting point is a pre tax small profit to a £120m loss.

I know income and transfer profit will also have risen.

I hope a majority of clubs will vote to keep the limit at £105m for the period ending 2024-25, you can't just expect the system to be flexed for a small number of clubs.

Wolves and Newcastle could have asked for a raise. Would have probably saved Everton and Nottingham Forest also, although you can never tell if owners would just gamble and blow the extra headroom anyway.
 
B

BristolfaninPeace

Youth Team
Just to illustrate my point abour the new starting point.

They had after Allowables which are in the 2nd pic- Depreciation, Youth, Community and Ladies Team, a good profit in 2021-22 and a major deficit in 2022-23. £110-115m negative swing as a new starting point in PSR terms.

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B

BristolfaninPeace

Youth Team
Just to illustrate my point abour the new starting point.

They had after Allowables which are in the 2nd pic- Depreciation, Youth, Community and Ladies Team, a good profit in 2021-22 and a major deficit in 2022-23. £110-115m negative swing as a new starting point.

Screenshot_20240505-131644_OneDrive.jpg

Screenshot_20240505-131732_OneDrive.jpg
 
Redemption

Redemption

One less gobshite...
eyupmeduck said:
Would anyone be surprised to see the NDA at Gresham "changing hands" for a big amount?
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Yes, i would be surprised because Chelsea sold a hotel, which is a going concern with a book value that reflects its trading position.

I'm not looking to have an argument about the fairness and legitimacy of that trade, but it's quite different from the NDA which doesn't generate any of its own revenue so its value is severlt limited.
 
Project Zeus

Project Zeus

Steve Chettle
The PL have really played this whole saga awfully.

They're going to look terrible if/when they relegate Burnley in a courtroom this week, and put Luton on life support in the process.

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