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Financial Fair Play (FFP)

FLC

FLC

First Team Squad
eyupmeduck said:
I watched the skysports thingy and have to say that although he did well in terms of not rising to the constant barrage of preachy nonsense from Gary Neville, Spits Magee and the Everton fan, a few points were massively glossed over.

Everton are running with the narrative that they breached because they weren't allowed to include stadium interest payments as allowable expenses but we went crazy and bought 34 players so effectively deserve what we get. They weren't allowed to include those payments because they were not interest payments on loans for the stadium but loans that were used for running costs. They also signed 27 payers over the 3 year psr window

Forest buying whatever the number associated with the breach is misleading, we either play the Everton card and blame it on none football factors such as has been pointed out previously until the 2nd of June Forest were led to believe that £30m of the losses were allowable (Covid claim and the promotion bonuses) because the EPL had indicated that this would be the case in our "constant dialogue".

If we are being beaten with the "You signed 298 players you get everything you deserve" thing that Neville and the Everton bozo were pulling out (Which the Luton fan jumped on as well) then the facts behind the number are a bit different.

Firstly we started with a first team squad of 7 players (Including Horvath) 6 really as we loaned out Horvath to Luton so needed 19 to make a squad of 25. The actual transfer cost of those 6 by the way, £6 million so our squad cost about the same as Nevilles League 2 Salford value.

We spent money on 18 transfers, 2 of whom got or arrived with season ending injuries within the first few months of the season, 2 of whom you could probably argue were future players (Bowler and xtina) and Hwang where he wasnt signed for us at all. All in all we paid for lets say 15 players we thought would be first team squad members and had to adapt when 2 got bad injuries. Net First team players +13

The spend bit annoyed me, like Man U at the same time hadn't spent the same amount on 2 players (Casimeiro and Antony).

7 Players were signed as free transfers, 1 was for the u23s, 2 came in in January. Net first team players +6

5 players were loaned in, Navas was signed because our first choice loan keeper was injured for the season so really its one squad place between the two of them, Bade never played at all and had left by the January, Wood was signed on a loan to buy deal, Lodi was great and needed to be signed because the chap we originally signed to play Left back did not appear in the season or indeed at all for us yet. Net first team players +3

Our "Excesses" led us from having a squad of 6 to 28 whereby Luton for example this season have signed 15 players and have a first team squad of 29. On Luton, they have no right to moan about anything, they will benefit from our points deduction based on last season, they had a squad 2 times bigger than we had. If they stay up it will be because of points deductions, they are garbage and will be relegated next year anyway.

There is so much lazy commentary but i have to admit that it was mainly Neville the font of no knowledge and the Everton fan that irked me the most. I dont think Greg got chance to answer much really but i found it wholly annoying, probably as the wordcount shows!
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I quite like Neville in terms of his social conscience, but he’s definitely not the sharpest tool in the box.
 
eyupmeduck

eyupmeduck

Geoff Thomas
FLC said:
I quite like Neville in terms of his social conscience, but he’s definitely not the sharpest tool in the box.
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I've said before, he's the worst kind of idiot as he thinks he's the exact opposite.

"When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. Its only painful and difficult for others.

The same applies when you are stupid". R Gervais

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
It's Baggio

It's Baggio

John Robertson
Our accounts are out for June 2023. Wages touching £130m.

Turnover approx £155m. 84% of that going on wages. Incredible numbers.


Screenshot 2024-03-28 200101.png
 
Y

YouReds43

Youth Team
It's Baggio said:
Our accounts are out for June 2023. Wages touching £130m.

Turnover approx £155m. 84% of that going on wages. Incredible numbers.


View attachment 37032
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So Wages and other costs at 145m and 40m amortisation costs - 185/154.7 is around 119.6% of Turnover so we need to drop that considerably this year, hopefully that will be the case. That is absolute crazy numbers, spent way beyond our means haven't we
 
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M

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
It's Baggio said:
Our accounts are out for June 2023. Wages touching £130m.
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Christ.

And people were incredulous at me on here when I said I thought our wage bill might be north of £90m.
 
It's Baggio

It's Baggio

John Robertson
YouReds43 said:
So Wages and other costs at 145m and 40m amortisation costs - 170/154.7 is around 119.6% of Turnover so we need to drop that considerably this year, hopefully that will be the case. That is absolute crazy numbers, spent way beyond our means haven't we
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I'd wager the amortisation figure will be a fair bit higher for 23/24 as well, considering the £100m or so spend last summer.

Even if wages stay flat, it's not hard to see why we're forecasting another decent sized loss for this season, even accounting for Brennan + other sales.
 
Y

YouReds43

Youth Team
Got to rethink our approach to the window this summer, We have done well this season to get rid of a bunch, the loans returning have to go permanently, Doesn't matter how little they go for they have to go. It is as simple as that. This is why Marinakis is wanting an increase in capacity, To increase the Turnover to be posting 185m for Wages and Amortisation we have to be looking at around 220m Turnover.
 
Y

YouReds43

Youth Team
It's Baggio said:
I'd wager the amortisation figure will be a fair bit higher for 23/24 as well, considering the £100m or so spend last summer.

Even if wages stay flat, it's not hard to see why we're forecasting another decent sized loss for this season, even accounting for Brennan + other sales.
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I am starting to think the 12-17m loss this year is without Exclusions for PSR as our actual loss for the year was 67m without PSR exlusions
 
M

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
YouReds43 said:
Got to rethink our approach to the window this summer, We have done well this season to get rid of a bunch, the loans returning have to go permanently, Doesn't matter how little they go for they have to go. It is as simple as that. This is why Marinakis is wanting an increase in capacity, To increase the Turnover to be posting 185m for Wages and Amortisation we have to be looking at around 220m Turnover.
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We won't get an additional £70m annually from increasing the stadium. It won't touch the sides. We won't uplift revenue by £70m by any other means than selling players.

The elephant in the room is the £130m wages. That is only sustainable long term (post transfer fee amortisation) if we're a PL club with no threat of relegation.
 
Y

YouReds43

Youth Team
MaxiRobriguez said:
We won't get an additional £70m annually from increasing the stadium. It won't touch the sides. We won't uplift revenue by £70m by any other means than selling players.

The elephant in the room is the £130m wages. That is only sustainable long term (post transfer fee amortisation) if we're a PL club with no threat of relegation
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Forest have to reduce that wage bill considerably. with the likes of Felipe, Origi, Kouyate, Hennessey, Tavares, Montiel all leaving it should reduce the bill a lot, it depends on how we recruit in the Summer. Have to stay up.
 
Robertson

Robertson

Viv Anderson
My fag packet maths says we’re paying pretty much an average of 90 grand a week to everyone 🙀

Big chunk of non-relegation bonuses?
 
M

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Ben35 said:
Source?
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It's on Companies House.

Seeing as no one else has done the high level view then I will:

Turnover: £154m, made up of:
PL revenue: £124m
Gate receipts; £11m
Other: £11m
Merchandising: £7m

Profit: -£67m, made up mainly because:
Wages; -£130m
Transfer spend: -£65m (although we're only amortising away £40m... not sure how we're squaring that circle).

Intangible squad value: £138m


Edit: That -£67m profit figure is a problem because it's being driven by spending which wil count towards FFP allowances.

Edit2: You can start to plug in some numbers for next season as well with this:
- Turnover likely to be very similar at £155m, maybe small increase.
- Wages likely similar again (reduced squad size but wage increases)
- Transfer spending will likely be similar (because the amortised additional spending this summer will be balanced out by Brennan sale)

So we're probably heading towards another -£60m loss give or take £20m, which from an FFP POV will likely mean we're in breach again next season unless we make a large sale early on in summer window.
 
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Bob Fossil

Bob Fossil

Nottingham's dirty secret
It's Baggio said:
I'd wager the amortisation figure will be a fair bit higher for 23/24 as well, considering the £100m or so spend last summer.

Even if wages stay flat, it's not hard to see why we're forecasting another decent sized loss for this season, even accounting for Brennan + other sales.
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A lot of us are none-the -wiser.

Give us it in simple terms.

How much do we need to sell this summer to be compliant?

That's what we care about.
 
Bob Fossil

Bob Fossil

Nottingham's dirty secret
MaxiRobriguez said:
It's on Companies House.

Seeing as no one else has done the high level view then I will:

Turnover: £154m, made up of:
PL revenue: £124m
Gate receipts; £11m
Other: £11m
Merchandising: £7m

Profit: -£67m, made up mainly because:
Wages; -£130m
Transfer spend: -£65m (although we're only amortising away £40m... not sure how we're squaring that circle).

Intangible squad value: £138m
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Headlines please

It's a Bank Holiday Weekend & we're pissed.
 
It's Baggio

It's Baggio

John Robertson
Comparison with some other clubs wage bills (inc. social security/pension costs) for 22/23. Quite a few clubs have yet to post.

Forest£144,912,000
Brentford£98,800,000
West Ham£135,343,000
Wolves£141,599,000
Bournemouth£100,109,000
Arsenal£225,427,000
Newcastle£186,252,000
Liverpool£372,881,000
Aston Villa£194,236,000
Southampton£121,105,000
 
M

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Bob Fossil said:
A lot of us are none-the -wiser.

Give us it in simple terms.

How much do we need to sell this summer to be compliant?

That's what we care about.
Click to expand...

A lot will depend on wage bill changes in this current season.

If it remains static then near £60m outgoings would be required probably.
 
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