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  1. #401
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Whilst I hate to be that guy, if it pushes people to conserving energy better, like wearing jumpers over turning the heating on, then it might just delay us annihilating the planet for a few more years.

    30/09/2021: It's only 8 points to the play-offs. Doesn't matter if we're 20th having lost three times as many games as we've won so far. I fancy us now that Hughton's gone.

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  3. #402
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Hopefully it will push us towards more sustainable power sources and away from a third world dictatorship artificially raising the price by limiting the flow just to make a political point.

    Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.

  4. #403
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Bump.

    It's Budget Day which is very exciting. As always lets try and not let political persuasions into this discussion as there's another thread for that. Here is what we know so far:

    1) Confirmed: National Living Wage for those over 23, which is currently £8.91 will rise to £9.50 from April 2022. That's over £1,000 pre-tax annually for those on NLW.
    2) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for those 21-22, which is currently £8.36 will rise to £9.18 from the same date. Another four figure increase.
    3) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for 18 to 20-year-olds, currently £6.56 will rise to £6.83, a circa £500 annual rise for those on full time contracts.
    4) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for under-18s: From £4.62 to £4.81, a circa £400 annual rise for those on full time contracts.
    5) Confirmed: Apprentice rate will increase from £4.30 to £4.81 per hour. Another four figure increase.
    6) Confirmed: £5.7bn is bein earmarked to improve transport outside of London.
    7) Confirmed: £2bn is being earmarked to help construct an additional 160,000 homes across the country.
    Confirmed: £3bn is being earmarked to help fund additional classroom hours and 24,000 new apprenticeship places.
    9) Confirmed: On top of that, another £500m will specifically go towards digital and numeracy skills training.
    10) Confirmed: National Insurance and Dividend Taxes will rise 1.25 percentage points as the Government announced a couple of months ago.
    11) Rumour: Student Loan repayment threshold is due to be lowered, meaning students will have to pay more.
    12) Rumour: Air Passenger Duty may be raised, increasing the cost of flights.
    13) Rumour: Changes to alcohol duty have been mooted.
    14) Rumour: Cap Gain Taxes may rise significantly to move in step with Income tax rates.
    15) Rumour: The Government will not scrap the 5% VAT rate on utility bills despite Labour calling for it.
    16) Rumour: Higher Rate Tax Relief on Pension contributions may be scrapped with a flat 20% tax relief for all replacing the current tiering instead.


  5. #404
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    The headlines are all about the living wage increases, which are really just matching inflation and not the payrise being reported.

    Apart from that, I'm getting two confirmed tax rises, a rumoured third rise, and nothing to control rent prices, landlords who own multiple properties, or help for first time buyers. 160k new homes is nowhere near enough to solve the housing crisis.

    I wouldn't vote for it, if this was a manifesto.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


  6. #405
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    They arenít even matching inflation though, are they?

    When you factor in the astonishing rise in energy prices, youíre going to be worse off.

    ĄI believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialismď

    ĄDon't forget you're alive. 'Cause sometimes when you walk around the city and you're in a bad mood, you can think, hey, wait a minute, we're alive! We don't know what the next second will bring and what a fantastic thing this is. This can get easily forgotten in the routine of life, and that's something I'm trying to bring to my attention at all times. Don't forget you're alive. We're not dead, you know. This is the greatest thing.Ē

    ó Joe Strummer

  7. #406
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    They arenít even matching inflation though, are they?
    The increases to national minimum/living wages do exceed (the headline rate of) inflation yes. The increases to public sector salaries will probably not match inflation but I haven't seen any confirmed rates per sector for this so not possible to tell yet (also seen I've missed public sector pay increases in my list above, but this has been confirmed).

    Either way, it's raises that other workers won't get, so even though it's not going to be perfect for public sector workers at least it will go someway to easing the cost of living increase that everyone is going to face.

    I also deliberately didn't talk about inflation in my list because it's not something that the Government can control. If we want to get on top of inflation then it's up to the BoE who are currently doing sweet fuck all.


  8. #407
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Genuine question: why is the minimum wage different depending on the workerís age? Whatís the aim behind that? Keep more young people in further education?

    It seems unfair on the face of it that three people doing the same minimum wage job have three different thresholds, purely based on their age. Surely thatís age discrimination? Would be interested to see how that held up in the courts.


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  9. #408
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    New Rumour: University fees to be cut from £9,000 to £8,500.


  10. #409
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    New Rumour: University fees to be cut from £9,000 to £8,500.
    Current fees already went up to £9,250 in 2017.

    I'd be very surprised if they drop it. The last I heard was that a rise towards £10k is likely.

    The university I work at raised its PhD tuition fee by 50% in the summer.

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  11. #410
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Living in Germany, as I do (did I mention this?) university education (and the excellent vocational education system) is funded entirely from general taxation, and the only cost to students is (heavily subsidised) accommodation and food.

    It is seen as a benefit, because as a student, your education is paid for by current taxpayers, and then when you graduate and join the workforce, your taxes pay for the next-generation of students.

    Itís one reason why the per-head tax burden is higher in Germany, but this is a significant benefit, because it means that if youíre a bright enough student, you can go to university, regardless of your financial means.

    I simply cannot understand why the U.K. doesnít implant something similar?

    Anyone would think the U.K. universities were a bit of a scam, or something?


  12. #411
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Living in Germany, as I do (did I mention this?) university education (and the excellent vocational education system) is funded entirely from general taxation, and the only cost to students is (heavily subsidised) accommodation and food.

    It is seen as a benefit, because as a student, your education is paid for by current taxpayers, and then when you graduate and join the workforce, your taxes pay for the next-generation of students.

    Itís one reason why the per-head tax burden is higher in Germany, but this is a significant benefit, because it means that if youíre a bright enough student, you can go to university, regardless of your financial means.

    I simply cannot understand why the U.K. doesnít implant something similar?

    Anyone would think the U.K. universities were a bit of a scam, or something?
    Because having an ignorant electorate helps the Conservatives stay in power


  13. #412
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    and then when you graduate and join the workforce, your taxes pay for the next-generation of students.
    That's the problem, a large chunk of current graduates do not earn much more, if more at all, than non-graduates, so are not paying an additional tax burden and something like 70% of current graduates are expected to not have repaid their debt at the end of the 30 years, at which point it's wiped off. So whilst the treasury has an asset in the form of the student loan book, essentially it's just a very large junk bond which is getting more junkier.

    The Government have been rumoured to be talking about cutting fees for STEM subjects which has higher earning potential for most of the graduates in those industries, but nothing concrete yet, and there's also been whispers that Universities will be able to "invest" in this glorified junk bond but restricted to only their students - but I can't see many Uni's going for it. Oxford, Cambridge and the redbricks will dive in, but the ex-Poly's and new Uni's should avoid like the plague as it's their graduates who on average typically don't benefit (money wise anyway) from the Uni course and so won't fund the coupon payments.

    Whole system needs a rethink.


  14. #413
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    The 2019 Augar Review into University student funding recommended a cut in tuition fees to around £7,500, with Universities receiving a top up depending on the type of course (Science, yes, Humanities, no, probably). A cut in tuition fees has been on the cards for some while.

    It's also worth remembering that Tories don't generally win seats in University towns - back in 2019 of the cabinet, only Jeremy Hunt and Boris Johnson had a University in their constituency. University bashing will play well with their electorate.


  15. #414
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    When we consider this budget is a bit of a free-hit - budgetary promises today are not fit for the realities of tomorrow, I would have expected a little more flannel. Especially from this lot. And, how does any of this map to 'build back better' and the vision of a Britain competing in the brave new world these clowns have created?

    The collective of moles in opposition should be all over it, or not. I mean, the evidence is everywhere.


  16. #415
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    1) Confirmed: National Living Wage for those over 23, which is currently £8.91 will rise to £9.50 from April 2022. That's over £1,000 pre-tax annually for those on NLW.
    2) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for those 21-22, which is currently £8.36 will rise to £9.18 from the same date. Another four figure increase.
    3) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for 18 to 20-year-olds, currently £6.56 will rise to £6.83, a circa £500 annual rise for those on full time contracts.
    4) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for under-18s: From £4.62 to £4.81, a circa £400 annual rise for those on full time contracts.
    5) Confirmed: Apprentice rate will increase from £4.30 to £4.81 per hour. Another four figure increase.
    6) Confirmed: £5.7bn is bein earmarked to improve transport outside of London.
    7) Confirmed: £2bn is being earmarked to help construct an additional 160,000 homes across the country.
    Confirmed: £3bn is being earmarked to help fund additional classroom hours and 24,000 new apprenticeship places.
    9) Confirmed: On top of that, another £500m will specifically go towards digital and numeracy skills training.
    10) Confirmed: National Insurance and Dividend Taxes will rise 1.25 percentage points as the Government announced a couple of months ago.
    11) Rumour: Student Loan repayment threshold is due to be lowered, meaning students will have to pay more.
    12) RumourConfirmed: Air Passenger Duty may be raised, increasing the cost of flights.
    13) RumourConfirmed: Changes to alcohol duty have been mooted.
    14) Rumour: Cap Gain Taxes may rise significantly to move in step with Income tax rates.
    15) Rumour: The Government will not scrap the 5% VAT rate on utility bills despite Labour calling for it.
    16) Rumour: Higher Rate Tax Relief on Pension contributions may be scrapped with a flat 20% tax relief for all replacing the current tiering instead.

    Worthy snippets not previously mentioned, but confirmed today by the Chancellor:
    1) Banks will avoid the corporation tax hike as the bank surcharge is being reduced by the same amount.
    2) Fuel duty wasn't raised. It wasn't expected to be, but, confirmation at least.

    Students breathing a sigh of relief that the threshold wasn't reduced. That's probably the biggest win of the lot, that they haven't been stung with that, as it would have been punishing.

    Overall it was a relatively tame budget. Very much feels like money is being held back for a later time when tax cuts can be given away as part of an election campaign (next year anyone?)

    Last edited by MaxiRobriguez; 27-10-21 at 13:45.

  17. #416
    Ale ape.
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    I'm pleased with the tax cuts on lower-strength beers. If I increase my consumption, I may just about break even on the energy increases.


  18. #417
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    The OBR says a 15% reduction on EU trade will equate to a 4% drop in productivity (and thus, living standards).

    How about that for a Brexit Bonus!


  19. #418

    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Consultation on online sales tax. Gooo and fuck yourself, if you think that raising prices online will revive the corpse of the High Street then you are off your head.


  20. #419
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    The OBR says a 15% reduction on EU trade will equate to a 4% drop in productivity (and thus, living standards).

    How about that for a Brexit Bonus!
    German GDP 2.5 per cent growth down from 3.6 per cent 2021, UK GDP up to 6.5 per cent growth 2021, and more people in employment than before the pandemic started let’s follow the German lead.


  21. #420
    LTLF Legend
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    German GDP 2.5 per cent growth down from 3.6 per cent 2021, UK GDP up to 6.5 per cent growth 2021, and more people in employment than before the pandemic started letís follow the German lead.
    Wrong.


  22. #421
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Wrong.
    Inevitably aren’t I always.


  23. #422
    LTLF Legend
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    Inevitably arenít I always.
    Always? Dunno.

    This time you are, because youíre confusing the economic impact of Covid-19 and the economic impact of Brexit.


  24. #423
    Youth Team
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    1) Confirmed: National Living Wage for those over 23, which is currently £8.91 will rise to £9.50 from April 2022. That's over £1,000 pre-tax annually for those on NLW.
    2) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for those 21-22, which is currently £8.36 will rise to £9.18 from the same date. Another four figure increase.
    3) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for 18 to 20-year-olds, currently £6.56 will rise to £6.83, a circa £500 annual rise for those on full time contracts.
    4) Confirmed: National Minimum Wage for under-18s: From £4.62 to £4.81, a circa £400 annual rise for those on full time contracts.
    5) Confirmed: Apprentice rate will increase from £4.30 to £4.81 per hour. Another four figure increase.
    6) Confirmed: £5.7bn is bein earmarked to improve transport outside of London.
    7) Confirmed: £2bn is being earmarked to help construct an additional 160,000 homes across the country.
    Confirmed: £3bn is being earmarked to help fund additional classroom hours and 24,000 new apprenticeship places.
    9) Confirmed: On top of that, another £500m will specifically go towards digital and numeracy skills training.
    10) Confirmed: National Insurance and Dividend Taxes will rise 1.25 percentage points as the Government announced a couple of months ago.
    11) Rumour: Student Loan repayment threshold is due to be lowered, meaning students will have to pay more.
    12) RumourConfirmed: Air Passenger Duty may be raised, increasing the cost of flights.
    13) RumourConfirmed: Changes to alcohol duty have been mooted.
    14) Rumour: Cap Gain Taxes may rise significantly to move in step with Income tax rates.
    15) Rumour: The Government will not scrap the 5% VAT rate on utility bills despite Labour calling for it.
    16) Rumour: Higher Rate Tax Relief on Pension contributions may be scrapped with a flat 20% tax relief for all replacing the current tiering instead.

    Worthy snippets not previously mentioned, but confirmed today by the Chancellor:
    1) Banks will avoid the corporation tax hike as the bank surcharge is being reduced by the same amount.
    2) Fuel duty wasn't raised. It wasn't expected to be, but, confirmation at least.

    Students breathing a sigh of relief that the threshold wasn't reduced. That's probably the biggest win of the lot, that they haven't been stung with that, as it would have been punishing.

    Overall it was a relatively tame budget. Very much feels like money is being held back for a later time when tax cuts can be given away as part of an election campaign (next year anyone?)
    So is it confirmed that 14 and 16 in the list arenít happening? Iíve not seen any mention of them and assume theyíre too big to just slip into the detailed notes that get released alongside the main announcement.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  25. #424
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Always? Dunno.

    This time you are, because youíre confusing the economic impact of Covid-19 and the economic impact of Brexit.
    That never happens on here, does it?


  26. #425
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big Finance, Money and Economics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pippi View Post
    So is it confirmed that 14 and 16 in the list aren’t happening? I’ve not seen any mention of them and assume they’re too big to just slip into the detailed notes that get released alongside the main announcement.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not happening for now no.

    HRT relief on pensions has been a potential target for many years now so expect it to be rumoured again next budget.

    Capital Gains moving in line with Income Tax is just too unfriendly to Conservative backers, I can't see it happening under their watch.


 

 

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