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  1. #51
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest ash View Post
    What baffles me is this ventroz guy is great at finance and is making Marinakis some money out of the club. But how much is he actually making? Surely to own our club is for footballing reasons and not financial as there’s a host of other ventures that Marinakis could of put his money into that would of made far more than what Forest is making him
    Just some anecdotal evidence in support of this.

    My local team were, for some seasons, in a similar mess. They had become what in Germany is called a „Fahrstuhl-Club“ („Elevator Club“) as in they were seemingly always hovering near the relegation places, or worse, getting relegated (twice since 2015, and this was a club that had won the Bundesliga in 2007).

    This was mainly due to ineffective management throughout the club. In all areas there was serious dysfunction - at the members‘ meeting held at the Mercedes-Benz Arena in the Summer of 2018, they couldn’t even get the WiFi working for members to vote (members of the club get to vote on things like Management Board membership and in support of business decisions).

    Germany’s club structures are of course different, but with the club being effectively member-owned, change was demanded, and was eventually successful, after a concerted and vocal campaign led by some of the major fan-groups.

    The unpopular Chief Executive was ousted, and in came former player (and local Hero) Thomas Hitzlsperger. First thing he did was go out and hire one of Europe’s best talent-scouts, Sven Mislintat, formerly of Dortmund and the Arsenal, as Sporting Director, and gave him a blueprint to overhaul an ageing and disfunctional squad.

    A proper organisation was put in place, from the Board down to the Head Coach. A transfer policy was agreed, and a proper direction forged.

    Twenty players left the club, and twenty one were brought in (yeah, it was a big overhaul). Players targeted and signed were young, hungry, and with potential future transfer value.

    And, it worked. The club gained promotion to the Bundesliga again at the end of the 2019-2020 season, with a side packed-full of exciting young players (the squad has the youngest average age in the Bundesliga) and the team tries to play entertaining, pacy, attacking football, which has proved immensely popular with the supporters, and many neutrals.

    It can be done. But you have to have direction from the very top, and stability at Board level, and a plan that is agreed, and stuck with, for at least 18-months.

    This was a lesson that took VfB a number of years to learn, and it took some confidence to stick to the plan, even when results didn’t initially come (and - of course - they didn’t).

    Until Forest learn that lesson, they will continue to fail.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    „Don't forget you're alive. 'Cause sometimes when you walk around the city and you're in a bad mood, you can think, hey, wait a minute, we're alive! We don't know what the next second will bring and what a fantastic thing this is. This can get easily forgotten in the routine of life, and that's something I'm trying to bring to my attention at all times. Don't forget you're alive. We're not dead, you know. This is the greatest thing.”

    — Joe Strummer

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  3. #52
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Just some anecdotal evidence in support of this.

    My local team were, for some seasons, in a similar mess. They had become what in Germany is called a „Fahrstuhl-Club“ („Elevator Club“) as in they were seemingly always hovering near the relegation places, or worse, getting relegated (twice since 2015, and this was a club that had won the Bundesliga in 2007).

    This was mainly due to ineffective management throughout the club. In all areas there was serious dysfunction - at the members‘ meeting held at the Mercedes-Benz Arena in the Summer of 2018, they couldn’t even get the WiFi working for members to vote (members of the club get to vote on things like Management Board membership and in support of business decisions).

    Germany’s club structures are of course different, but with the club being effectively member-owned, change was demanded, and was eventually successful, after a concerted and vocal campaign led by some of the major fan-groups.

    The unpopular Chief Executive was ousted, and in came former player (and local Hero) Thomas Hitzlsperger. First thing he did was go out and hire one of Europe’s best talent-scouts, Sven Mislintat, formerly of Dortmund and the Arsenal, as Sporting Director, and gave him a blueprint to overhaul an ageing and disfunctional squad.

    A proper organisation was put in place, from the Board down to the Head Coach. A transfer policy was agreed, and a proper direction forged.

    Twenty players left the club, and twenty one were brought in (yeah, it was a big overhaul). Players targeted and signed were young, hungry, and with potential future transfer value.

    And, it worked. The club gained promotion to the Bundesliga again at the end of the 2019-2020 season, with a side packed-full of exciting young players (the squad has the youngest average age in the Bundesliga) and the team tries to play entertaining, pacy, attacking football, which has proved immensely popular with the supporters, and many neutrals.

    It can be done. But you have to have direction from the very top, and stability at Board level, and a plan that is agreed, and stuck with, for at least 18-months.

    This was a lesson that took VfB a number of years to learn, and it took some confidence to stick to the plan, even when results didn’t initially come (and - of course - they didn’t).

    Until Forest learn that lesson, they will continue to fail.
    The club will continue to fail whilst Marinakis owns it


  4. #53
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    There is absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise since he has owned us.

    The one thing fawaz and Marinakis have I’m common is they both think what works in there native countries works here in the championship. It doesn’t


  5. #54
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by derbyshirered View Post
    Maybe what we actually need is a quality head of recruitment
    No point the Greeks will ignore him.


  6. #55
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by derbyshirered View Post
    Maybe what we actually need is a quality head of recruitment
    That "quality" is still to be proven DR, but the owners have largely heeded supporters' demands by abandoning the Head-of-Recruitment/Head-Coach method and reverted to the traditional British manager-style, whereby the incumbant has the final say in recommendation and recruitment. It should also be noted that Gary Brazil now has a significant involvement in recruitment as part of his wider overseeing and development role.

    The first test of this fundamental change will be during the next window, although I expect it will involve "wheeler-dealing" rather than large fees being spent due to the ever-present need for FFP compliance.

    Last edited by Otis Redd'un; 01-12-20 at 13:08.

  7. #56
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    I’m looking to seeing who will be signed for next summers bomb squad.


  8. #57
    It's all about mid-table...
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by Otis Redd'un View Post
    That "quality" is still to be proven DR, but the owners have largely heeded supporters' demands by abandoning the Head-of-Recruitment/Head-Coach method and reverted to the traditional British manager-style, whereby the incumbant has the final say in recommendation and recruitment. It should also be noted that Gary Brazil now has a significant involvement in recruitment as part of his wider overseeing and development role.

    The first test of this fundamental change will be during the next window, although I expect it will involve "wheeler-dealing" rather than large fees being spent due to the ever-present need for FFP compliance.
    It's 'incumbent' Oats. Gets my gowt spelling erruz !

    Recruitment imo is all about profit percentage for the the agent and the Forest negotiator. The players quality, where he's from or any other factor is secondary.


  9. #58
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    My spelling error is duly noted Ray.

    As for your main point, the amounts demanded by, and paid-out to agents is a football-wide problem, but I'm not convinced that Mr Marinakis would be happy with one of his employees skimming-off a percentage of any fee paid.

    Last edited by Otis Redd'un; 01-12-20 at 17:24.

  10. #59
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by GreeksBearingGifts View Post
    Could it be that you are signing talent from abroad now because it will be more difficult to do so after December?
    It looks that way:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55152637

    The new point system will probably mean that prices for British players will increase considerably throughout British football.


  11. #60
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by GreeksBearingGifts View Post
    It looks that way:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55152637

    The new point system will probably mean that prices for British players will increase considerably throughout British football.
    If this means no more Greek club cast off's, it's a win.
    Develop what we have at academy level.


  12. #61
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Are there any British millionaires that know how to run a shit second tier side knocking on the door to buy Forest?

    It worked across the Trent right?


  13. #62
    Gaff Lad
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    What's the verdict on Anthony Knockers?

    Worth keeping, or send him back to Fulham in January?


  14. #63
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by rockabilly View Post
    What's the verdict on Anthony Knockers?

    Worth keeping, or send him back to Fulham in January?
    Always good to have knockers around especially in the winter months.


  15. #64
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by rockabilly View Post
    What's the verdict on Anthony Knockers?

    Worth keeping, or send him back to Fulham in January?
    Depends on the fee. He's quite creative but he's also 29. I'd imagine fulham would want a substantial fee since they bought him this year.

    Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk


  16. #65
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by GreeksBearingGifts View Post
    It looks that way:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55152637

    The new point system will probably mean that prices for British players will increase considerably throughout British football.
    I expect that sourcing potential British talent will be part of Gary Brazil's recruitment brief as part of his new expanded role GBG.


  17. #66
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by Otis Redd'un View Post
    I expect that sourcing potential British talent will be part of Gary Brazil's recruitment brief as part of his new expanded role GBG.
    And that will be why getting Category One for the Academy is so critical.


  18. #67
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by rockabilly View Post
    What's the verdict on Anthony Knockers?

    Worth keeping, or send him back to Fulham in January?
    Based on his appearances so far I’d send him back. He’s got the exact same number of goals and assists as Alex Mighten


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Your palms are holding her neck and thumbs are at her ears regulating the speed of her head as she swallows and then sucks up your machinery. She is topping up your engine oil for the cross-country coming up. Your RPM is hitting a new high. To wait any longer would be to lose prime time... She picks up a Bugatti's momentum. You want her more at a Volkswagen's steady trot. Squeeze the maximum mileage out of your gallon of gas. But she's eating up the road with all cylinders blazing.

    Aniruddha Bahal (Bunker 13

  19. #68
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    That's true. He's looked likely to unlock a defence but no goals or assists yet, though if he puts a good cross in and none of the others anticipate it is that all his fault?

    If it's him or Grosicki, I don't think Grosicki is really any better and has he played for WBA this season? We could be looking at another Colback situation where a player hasn't been involved for a while so can't slot in straight away (which I suppose is possible given we'd be looking at fringe players from the division above anyway).

    But we do definitely need 1/2 more wingers in which could include extending Knockaert's loan - as good as Lolley and Ameobi can be, one is inconsistent and the other has dodgy legs, the only other real backup we have is an 18 year old boy.


  20. #69
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    And that will be why getting Category One for the Academy is so critical.
    Absolutely Chris.

    I'd also suggest that Brazil is very likely to be familiar with the majority of young PL professionals that could potentially become available.


  21. #70
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    I don't think Brazil's involvement will be limited to the transfer of youngsters, as I was saying the other day:

    Quote Originally Posted by GreeksBearingGifts View Post
    Brazil's new contract is good news. His new title may not mean much (he was already de facto head of development, deciding on loans for players of the academy, and I read somewhere that he was also responsible for some of the academy signings from abroad). It may mean, however, that he will have a more official seat at the table regarding football matters, which is obviously a good choice.



  22. #71
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    It's been confirmed that Gary's responsibilities involve all aspects of the football side of things. As Chris noted earlier, he'll be the main driver in the pursuit of Category One Academy status, but he'll also be involved in recruitment of players and coaching and scouting staff across all levels.

    Irrespective of his actual title, he is, effectively, Director of Football-plus.

    Last edited by Otis Redd'un; 03-12-20 at 14:03.

  23. #72
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Wasn't it Brazil that signed Clough, Texiera & Ariyibi?


  24. #73
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Pope View Post
    Wasn't it Brazil that signed Clough, Texiera & Ariyibi?
    It was probably fatwaz seeing as we didn't have a manager at the time.


  25. #74
    Upper Decker
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Almost certainly Fawaz. New players used to appear at the training ground like they’d suddenly been dropped from a ufo in the night. Fawaz thought it was a game of football manager. Thinking about it, he probably used football manager to pick new signings.

    THE TRUTH IS THERE AND WITH IT I GO TO THE END OF THE WORLD .

  26. #75
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: January transfer window

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Almost certainly Fawaz. New players used to appear at the training ground like they’d suddenly been dropped from a ufo in the night. Fawaz thought it was a game of football manager. Thinking about it, he probably used football manager to pick new signings.
    Fawaz's naivety would've been amusing Rav were it not for the severity of the situation the club was in.

    That said, I do have to 'fess-up to being quite enthused when he brought Clough in, who was regarded as something of a hot prospect at the time. How misguided my enthusiasm was.


 

 

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