January transfer window

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

We played a total of 59 matches last season, more than you did. Our season started in July 2019 and ended in September 2020. Yes, the Championship is more competitive than the Greek league, but not necessarily more competitive than the 10 playoff matches that follow the 26 games long league you mentioned. And I assure you that the 16 European matches of last season were not easy non-competitive matches.

And once again: Bouchalakis, deemed unfit for the Championship (and perhaps rightly so at the time) played in 52 matches last season, with a playing time of 4,195 minutes (more than any of your players last season), including, of course, all European matches, where he was consistently one of our players who covered more kilometres. And I don't see Cafu having particular problems to run around until the final whistle is blown.

But it's nowhere near as competitive. It's minutes strolling.

You won 20, drew 6, lost 0 in the league. It's nothing like this league. No club could even dream of getting through a season with that record.

Not saying players can't come over & adapt, but it's like learning your chops in a rock band, and expecting to slot straight into a Jazz band. Cafu's done OK. Does he look like a promotion player? No.

Quite amusing that you include Dawson in that list really. If his name was Barry Smith and wasn't an ex-Forest player we would be slating his signing now. The fact is he's managed 28 games in two and a half seasons and he's probably on a wad.

Fine. Don't include him. That's another good signing we've not made.

[Advert Break]

[Otis Redd'un]

Prob a combo of all 3.

Look at the Bachirou signing. Modesto calls up is mate Issa and asks "who can you sort for us?". Bachirou arrives before anyone else in the window. Favours for friends.

If Modesto had seen Bachirou play 1 min of live football before signing him I'll be amazed (and Modesto's main focus will always be watching people for Oly anyway).

Then we have that royal dude on the books too The apologists are gonna come out with some corkers as to why he's a valued asset at the club, and a great wage to have on the books

You're probably right and I'm probably wrong, but the clear impression I got from reading about him is that the bloke from Monaco isn't involved at all with the football-side of things, and is solely concerned with finding/expanding commercial opportunities and using his contacts.

I'd argue that that isn't a bad thing, however, I'm happy to be corrected by those who are more informed.

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

You're probably right and I'm probably wrong, but the clear impression I got from reading about him is that the bloke from Monaco isn't involved at all with the football-side of things, and is solely concerned with finding/expanding commercial opportunities and using his contacts.

I'd argue that that isn't a bad thing, however, I'm happy to be corrected by those who are more informed.

I just think they're all connected and in each others pockets mate. EM seems to be very keen on using the club to build his family, which I've no qualms with if they're doing the business, but they aint.

Not being funny mate, but don't you think there's a real issue with how we've been run, recruitment in particular, over recent years?

All we've done is seen good players leave, and all we've got to show for it is a bloated squad lacking i quality, and a relegation fight

[HBB]

Well yes, if you ignore the windows where we signed a lot of players, we haen't signed that man players.

Similarly if you ignore that 13m we paid for Carvalho, we haven't spent that much.

Or if you ignore all those points we've dropped, we're actually in with a good shout of promotion this year.

And if we'd have scored that chance, we'd have won 1-0 Mr Cotterill

A better comparison would be to compare all other clubs in the league, and see how many signings they've made rather than ignoring anything which we've done because, you know, we have actually done that.

Regards "Apologists" I wasn't including you, I think you've made some good points in this thread. I was specifically referring to the plethora of posters who at every single turn were feverishly defending almost every move by our recruitment division last year, who were up in arms at it even being considered average, and who always come out with the same excuses each year, failing to recognize that the day we conquer those obstacles is the day we move forward as a club.

Thanks for that Alf, but it wasn't a case of "the dog would have won it hadn't have stopped running" all I'm suggesting a sense of proportion, I haven't done all EFL clubs just ones we'd expect as a minimum to be raked alongside which is reasonable I think. I haven't ignored any figures - they're in the stats and show that while we are the highest for number of signings in those 4 years, which agreed is hugely fucked up, there are two windows within those dates that give us a disproportionately higher appearance of institutionally poor recruitment than we might merit.

We've spent some money but by no means are we the highest spenders Carvalho was a big gamble that didn't work out for many reasons but while we spent on him Stoke spent 18 million on Kevin Wimmer (17 appearances in 4 years), 15 milion on Badou Ndiaye (27 appearances in 4 years), 10 on Tom Ince, Cardiff spent 10 million on Bobby Reid, 11 on Josh Murphy and 15 and Emiliano Sala (poor bugger). West Brom spent 15 million on Oliver Burke, 9 on Zhang Yuning(never played) and 8 on Semi Ajayi. Some decent signings some meh and some stinkers but not so different from us.

The big one for me is Norwich, they've signed almost as many as us but they've hardly signed anyone of note or spent much on them individually but you see a team that plays good football, coached well, high tempo and energy and as a consequence Premier League bound no doubt.

[Otis Redd'un]

I just think they're all connected and in each others pockets mate. EM seems to be very keen on using the club to build his family, which I've no qualms with if they're doing the business, but they aint.

Not being funny mate, but don't you think there's a real issue with how we've been run, recruitment in particular, over recent years?

All we've done is seen good players leave, and all we've got to show for it is a bloated squad lacking i quality, and a relegation fight

That may be so Alf, but am I wrong about the Monaco bloke though?

I'd genuinely rather be put right if indeed I am. I don't want to make a further twat of myself by claiming things that are wrong.

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

That may be so Alf, but am I wrong about the Monaco bloke though?

I'd genuinely rather be put right if indeed I am. I don't want to make a further twat of myself by claiming things that are wrong.

Not that I know of mate, like I say it was just a general opinion.

[Jimmy Gonad]

That may be so Alf, but am I wrong about the Monaco bloke though?

I'd genuinely rather be put right if indeed I am. I don't want to make a further twat of myself by claiming things that are wrong.

You are absolutely correct Otis; Louis Ducruet has nothing whatsoever to do with recruitment of playing staff.

His remit is to act in an advisory role on International Projects.

[Otis Redd'un]

You are absolutely correct Otis; Louis Ducruet has nothing whatsoever to do with recruitment of playing staff.

His remit is to act in an advisory role on International Projects.

Cheers Jimmy.

[Strummer]

I am still interested in what these „International Projects“ are, given this is a club that hasn’t played a competitive fixture in an international competition since the 1995-96 season.

[Dan_Bristol]

I am still interested in what these „International Projects“ are, given this is a club that hasn’t played a competitive fixture in an international competition since the 1995-96 season.

It's finding players that play for weaker nations in tournaments, seeing who we can sign for naff all, and get paid by FIFA when they play in World Cup/Euro #AshkanDejagah

Never playing them, but making some monies (excluding wages) suggesting them to Modesto, who passes info on club and gets rewarded! - Just a guess lol

[Red bandit]

I see that Lawrence Shankland scored a goal from 53=yards yesterday.

I haven’t heard of any further interest from Forest, but someone who can score from that distance would be useful for a team that spends so much time in its own half.

[MXJ]

I will say it. I know Vrentzos follows me on twitter & they were obsessed with wanting to know who I was.

To be fair, I was also obsessed to find out who you were on Twitter too

[It's Baggio]

Whiteman or the lad from West Brom? For the longer term it had to be Whiteman but then we're in a short term mess so we need someone who has actually done it in this division successfully. I wouldn't be disappointed in Krovinovic arriving for the rest of the season because he could probably do a job now. Strangely some are berating the club for considering something they have been clamoring for all along. Probably cos the lad isn't English.

That's not to say we shouldn't be looking at Jephcott and Wiseman types too.

Like Arter, Colback, Freeman, Knockaert? Nothing against Krovinovic but signing players that have 'done it before' is only worthwhile if they are capable of doing it again.

[Forest ash]

When it comes to recruitment I believe the expectation and analysis should be similar to investing - even the best investment managers generally get a decent return from 1 in 3 investments, break even in the second and lose with the third. The most skilful investment managers are generally those who don't hold on to the poor performing shares long and can recognise when an unsung share has potential when at a low value. Its a constant churn and largely subjective guessing game.

I think you'd find the same arguments and observations on the forums of all teams that aren't on the up. Do we/have we signed some "sure thing" shares/players that then underperform yes we do, as does everyone - Clough signed some lemons, for every Francis or Keane there was a Fashanu or Jemson but he was able to be much more agile and was able to drop the rubbish whilst also getting a good return on signing or unearthing average players that excelled in his systems (with the invaluable help of Peter Taylor). It was the perfect mix having an academy produce the likes of Hodge, Des Walker, Fairclough etc and finding a Woan or a Pearce. With every passing year Ferguson's ability to do the same grows, he's seen by many as a footballing genius. I'd argue he had the same gifts as Clough and ultimately his complete control was key to his success as was his ruthlessness. Sure he did really well signing the likes of Sheringham and who knew about Solskjaear before he signed but remember as well how he was savvy enough to see the value of a Beckham or Neville while also quickly jettisoning what appeared to be promising players like Chadwick, Beardsmore, Sharpe, Macheda et al. But he signed some stinkers like Veron, Di Maria and Forlan who were good before the played at United and arguably good after it in teams that suited them more.

So transfers ultimately are like checking your spaghetti, chuck a shitload at the wall and see what sticks. We shouldn't expect more than 1 in 3 to be decent and even then its largely luck without the genius of a Clough/Fergie married with dictatorial power, funds, a good academy and the right system

That said I agree with many on here with a big problem with the modern game (since 2000). The appearance of the DoF role can throw a massive spanner in everything. It's all about control and vision. A DoF could be a boon to a manager IF your DoF and Manager are singing from the same hymn sheet.

In recruitment the DoF shares much with the role of a Peter Taylor. Clough/Taylor worked - in much the same way at Fergie/Kidd Fergie/McClaren and Fergie/Phelan did because they played second fiddle to the manager's vision system. Taylor shared Clough's approach to football and found players who he knew would prosper in it.

But the Director of Football/Manager system is potentially dangerously inverted as the fate of one is not automatically tied to the other. It's an inherent weakness if/when they have differing aims and philosophies.

I'd argue one must have primacy and it should be the manager but you could make the case the other way if that's your choice. That both adhere to a singular club approach is vital as well.

We have not had a singular Forest way for decades. We've had Owners with their own agendas, managers with different footballing philosophies and we've had DoF/recruiters with their own strategies and motives.

Of course we're a basketcase of a club and I can't see it ending any time soon.

It’s a good post well made but I’d argue that suggesting 3 failed Ferguson signings can’t balance out the good signings, the good youth promotions and the great way he’d get rid of legends as there time has passed

While I agree with the throwing the spaghetti analogy but most of what Fergie threw stuck, very seldom fell off unlike here we probably have a 1 in 8/10 REAL success rate in regards recruitment

[Forest ash]

Arter fair enough.

Colback though was more about striking whilst the iron was hot, and signing him before a long period not playing. I mean Newcastle wanted 1m for him FFS, Carvalho, Soudani, Da Costa & Jenks cost 20m between them. Grabbing Colback a year earlier for 1m seemed like a total no brainer to me, no hindsight there. And expecting an unfit player to do the for several managerial plans later is a different ball game.

Again with Freeman, Sab wanted him last Jan and for his system. Getting him 6 months later for only 4 games, then giving him to Hughton is another deal entirely.

It's the lack of any joined up thinking which is as much an issue as the players we sign.

Yep good post

[Forest ash]

Bouch is another player we gave up on too soon imo. That's another huge issue with the way the club works at the moment.

As it’s just clutching at straws all over the gaff from what toilet paper to buy to playing to staff to what shite 3rd kit to implement

There is no one guiding the ship in any consistent way, apart from round and round the iceberg

[HBB]

It’s a good post well made but I’d argue that suggesting 3 failed Ferguson signings can’t balance out the good signings, the good youth promotions and the great way he’d get rid of legends as there time has passed

While I agree with the throwing the spaghetti analogy but most of what Fergie threw stuck, very seldom fell off unlike here we probably have a 1 in 8/10 REAL success rate in regards recruitment

Forgive me if it was unclear - I wasn't suggesting that Fergie wasn't a genius, quite the reverse, I was suggesting he had many of the same gifts as Cloughie. Also if it wasn't clear I wasn't saying he only had three failed signings, there were many more Falcao, Memphis Dupay (another who did well elsewhere), Bastian Schweinsteiger (past it) Kleberson, Eric Djemba Djemba were all failures for Ferguson. I was suggesting that he had the talent/ability and also made the most of the other variables (money, dictatorial power, good academy) to ensure that his success rate was higher than that of other managers.

And yes you're right while ideally I'd suggest that at the highest level maybe a 1 in 3 hit rate would be the best you could hope for, we and almost everyone else, is way down on that.

I look back at the 16/17 season in particular when the total signings we made were Thomas Lam, Stephen Henderson, Damian Perquis, Mustapha Carayol, Lica and Nic Bendtner ..... every one of them a lemon.

[Forest ash]

Forgive me if it was unclear - I wasn't suggesting that Fergie wasn't a genius, quite the reverse, I was suggesting he had many of the same gifts as Cloughie. Also if it wasn't clear I wasn't saying he only had three failed signings, there were many more Falcao, Memphis Dupay (another who did well elsewhere), Bastian Schweinsteiger (past it) Kleberson, Eric Djemba Djemba were all failures for Ferguson. I was suggesting that he had the talent/ability and also made the most of the other variables (money, dictatorial power, good academy) to ensure that his success rate was higher than that of other managers.

And yes you're right while ideally I'd suggest that at the highest level maybe a 1 in 3 hit rate would be the best you could hope for, we and almost everyone else, is way down on that.

I look back at the 16/17 season in particular when the total signings we made were Thomas Lam, Stephen Henderson, Damian Perquis, Mustapha Carayol, Lica and Nic Bendtner ..... every one of them a lemon.

Lica Lemon

[Erik]

As it’s just clutching at straws all over the gaff from what toilet paper to buy to playing to staff to what shite 3rd kit to implement

There is no one guiding the ship in any consistent way, apart from round and round the iceberg

Last January through May they steered straight into the damn thing.

[DizzyBala]

Honestly if half the time we're looking to sell our own young players on for profit, we might as well start buying other teams young players and doing it as well.
Personally, i'd like to see us build a team of ambitious, attack minded and young domestic players. If they move on after a couple seasons, so be it.

Warburton had the right idea.

I'd rather see us double down and take a chance acting within the values of Nottingham Forest, than extending the East Midlands Airport Arrivals lounge with every foreign journeyman this side of Pireaus or acting as a retired home for footballers no longer at their best, looking for one last pay packet.

[Mr RayReardon]

Has Darikwa gone??

If Hughton can rid us of some absolute muck clogging up the wage bill then a good window would be one of a net trimming of the squad.

Centre midfield is a real problem with a lack of quality and creativity but... do we have enough to stay up?? If so, hold the funds! Hughton might be first Forest manager in a long time to actually say no to the plethora of shite he's served up by agents and Modesta. Freeman and Colback are still to come back and although they didn't exactly fulfil potential they have more quality on the ball then the incumbent cloggers. Keeping Knockheart is a good thing...

Jenkinson did ok v Cardiff and with Worrall and McKenna we have a very solid base. Full backs are ok and strikers are good. Mighten/Knockheart/Sammi and broken Lolley are enough options out wide and we have two very good championship strikers. Question is, is this enough to stay up?? If so... don't spend. Splashing a few more million on utter shite like Da Costa in hope to finish 17th rather than 18th is a waste and year on year culminates in us selling the likes of Cash. One big sale covers 10 shite signings and wages.

Long-term Forest. Please! Do enough to stay up whilst clearing out deadwood and then kv the summer re-build a side with time and planning rather than panic.

Only a club like Forest would buy in shite like Bachirou at probably a million a year and loan out three players who are better than him. If we're going to finish bottom 8 (we are) let's do so with the lowest possible cost.


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[Berkshire Red]

I'd rather see us double down and take a chance acting within the values of Nottingham Forest, than extending the East Midlands Airport Arrivals lounge with every foreign journeyman this side of Pireaus or acting as a retired home for footballers no longer at their best, looking for one last pay packet.

But first we have to avoid dropping into League One.

[Mr RayReardon]

That said - I would welcome a centre midfielder who can actually play football rather than spending their time stopping the opposition play.

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[Otis Redd'un]

Has Darikwa gone??

If Hughton can rid us of some absolute muck clogging up the wage bill then a good window would be one of a net trimming of the squad.

Centre midfield is a real problem with a lack of quality and creativity but... do we have enough to stay up?? If so, hold the funds! Hughton might be first Forest manager in a long time to actually say no to the plethora of shite he's served up by agents and Modesta. Freeman and Colback are still to come back and although they didn't exactly fulfil potential they have more quality on the ball then the incumbent cloggers. Keeping Knockheart is a good thing...

Jenkinson did ok v Cardiff and with Worrall and McKenna we have a very solid base. Full backs are ok and strikers are good. Mighten/Knockheart/Sammi and broken Lolley are enough options out wide and we have two very good championship strikers. Question is, is this enough to stay up?? If so... don't spend. Splashing a few more million on utter shite like Da Costa in hope to finish 17th rather than 18th is a waste and year on year culminates in us selling the likes of Cash. One big sale covers 10 shite signings and wages.

Long-term Forest. Please! Do enough to stay up whilst clearing out deadwood and then kv the summer re-build a side with time and planning rather than panic.

Only a club like Forest would buy in shite like Bachirou at probably a million a year and loan out three players who are better than him. If we're going to finish bottom 8 (we are) let's do so with the lowest possible cost.

Have you followed Swedish football closely for long?

[Mr RayReardon]

Have you followed Swedish football closely for long?

Nope. I very much doubt our scouting team have either.

It appears that CH has followed Bachirou long enough for him not to get a place in the matchday squad when our centre midfield consistently play like they're stuck in quick sand

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