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View Poll Results: Barnsley v Forest

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  • Forest Win - John Robertson

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    4 11.11%
  • Draw - John Barnes

    4 11.11%
  • Awooooga - John Fashanu

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Thread: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

      
  1. #601
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Even with a poor start we haven't employed a quality manager like Chris Hughton and married him up tot he best squad we've had in years to finish less than 6th.

    We'll be top 6.


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  3. #602
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    It only fell apart in Feb coz so many of those players had been ground into the dirt all season due to lack of depth.

    Had we actually added decent depth like some of us asked for, it wouldn't.

    Ultimately the top brass' decisions have flushed this season down the toilet, not Hughton. And if they sack Hughton for a mid-table finish they'll be showing that after several years they've learned nothing, and aren't up to making us a success.




    McKenna's got ability, but he & Figs aren't a patch on Worrall & Daws last year.

    If you don't think Worrall is capable of playing 30+ games in a season - why would he be first choice? CB's, and the rest of the defence, are the sort of players managers expect to play every game and Joe is definitely capable of that. Both he and Cash are young players and to me both of them still looked like they had plenty of life in them as the season wore on.

    Not only that but the whole squad had a 3 month break! Then came back and performed even worse. Cash, Worrall and Watson all played after the restart in some of the most dire team performances\results we'd seen in a while. This isn't a criticism of any of them but they were involved and suggests that they aren't something we are desperately missing. Considering we are, I think, performing better under Hughton than we were after the restart last season.

    Last season the whole side focused on defence first and Worrall and Dawson were a key part of that, but they weren't solely responsible for it. Once the weaknesses of Lamouchi's setup were exposed more and more teams took advantage of it. That was the real problem. Which we saw quite brutally at the start of this season with the same performances despite a whole new set of players that the manager had chosen himself.

    As for signings well they signed some of the ones you asked for. When you look at the quality of players that have come in it's tough to think of a better transfer window in recent years. They haven't gelled yet but that doesn't mean those players are shit.
    They did add decent depth, and I think even you'll agree that Arter, Freeman and Taylor are better than Marcus Maddison and Jack Marriott. Incidentally Marriott is now out injured too.

    Hopefully Worrall and Mckenna can form a decent partnership, but I don't think that's the missing piece nor do I think he's going to make a world of difference because there's so much else that Hughton has to do. Worrall will be great to have back and along with Soh, Mckenna, Dawson, Figueriedo and Blackett the manager has a fantastic group of CB options.

    Hughton wouldn't have come here if the job was to target 14th. The key reason he will have taken this job is because it has so many of the tools to give him in order to be successful. We aren't in a relegation scrap either and it's just silly to say so. Hughton has won 3, drawn 3 and lost 2 of his 8 matches thus far - is that really relegation form? Today we played better against Barnsley than we have in the last 2 outings and have very slowly improving with each game so even on that front there's progress.

    Last edited by incapable hulk; 21-11-20 at 22:58.
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  4. #603
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    They have taken time. It's been a three year process involving some mistakes and adjustments along the way, but they have built a squad, which is very good considering the restraints of FFP and our position in the Championship pecking order.
    Youíre right about the building of the squad. Problem is that every time we get a new manager, the team method changes, maybe ever so slightly but itís enough to force a period of adjustment which takes time and costs results. It wastes points. My point? We need to keep hold of our feckiní manager for long enough for him to build his squad and persuade his players into a new (more successful) ethos. The owners of many clubs know sweet fa about the game. When you see teams coming out of nowhere to get promoted to the Prem, it is pretty well certain that the owners know something about how to back a manager in the right way to get the team up. So read this Mr Greek owner, get a good manager and have faith in him. I think probably that any three of our last ten managers could have got us promoted if they had been given time.


  5. #604
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by RRRREDUN View Post
    So read this Mr Greek owner, get a good manager
    Another one?


  6. #605
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by RRRREDUN View Post
    Youíre right about the building of the squad. Problem is that every time we get a new manager, the team method changes, maybe ever so slightly but itís enough to force a period of adjustment which takes time and costs results. It wastes points. My point? We need to keep hold of our feckiní manager for long enough for him to build his squad and persuade his players into a new (more successful) ethos. The owners of many clubs know sweet fa about the game. When you see teams coming out of nowhere to get promoted to the Prem, it is pretty well certain that the owners know something about how to back a manager in the right way to get the team up. So read this Mr Greek owner, get a good manager and have faith in him. I think probably that any three of our last ten managers could have got us promoted if they had been given time.
    It isn't his squad, and however long we stick with a manager they won't get 'their' squad either. Managers get some input into recruitment decisions but they need to work with the players they have. It's the same at every other club.

    Hughton has inherited a very good squad of players. It's his job to get them performing at their best.

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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Even with a poor start we haven't employed a quality manager like Chris Hughton and married him up tot he best squad we've had in years to finish less than 6th.

    We'll be top 6.
    Fully agree..... great effort by the boys today, just didn't have any luck in front of goal.
    Stay calm and carry on - just a slight bump in the road and only way is up!!!


  8. #607

    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Strangely more pleased with that than a 1-0 win with the same old crap.

    Real signs today we are making progress

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  9. #608
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by redreni View Post
    performance was pretty good today. looked really good going forward at times. also thought for long periods we looked in control. simple matter is we need to take those chances when they come along.
    They scored 2 and hit the bar 3 times mate

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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by IanStoreyMoore View Post
    They scored 2 and hit the bar 3 times mate
    Both statements are true.

    It was a weird game.


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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Even with a poor start we haven't employed a quality manager like Chris Hughton and married him up tot he best squad we've had in years to finish less than 6th.

    We'll be top 6.
    I've seen nothing this season so far to suggest that we have the potential to be a top 6 team. The big difference from last season is that we are missing Tiago, and Lewis isn't bagging the half-chances.


  12. #611
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    I'm not sure what/who we're missing, but missing we definitely are.

    Got faith in Hooters though, have the spivs?


  13. #612
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Malwood View Post
    I've seen nothing this season so far to suggest that we have the potential to be a top 6 team. The big difference from last season is that we are missing Tiago, and Lewis isn't bagging the half-chances.
    The big difference this season is that we started the season with no Cash, no confidence and Grabban looking as sharp as thing that isn't very sharp.
    We lost 5 games on the trot to add to that opening position.
    And thirdly, because we brought in 15 new players the rest of the Championship look forward to teaching us a lesson.
    This is likely to be the case week in, week out.
    Relegation is a real possibility this season.
    I didn't use "probability" there quite deliberately, but it is a real possibility.


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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    It isn't his squad, and however long we stick with a manager they won't get 'their' squad either. Managers get some input into recruitment decisions but they need to work with the players they have. It's the same at every other club.

    Hughton has inherited a very good squad of players. It's his job to get them performing at their best.
    My point is that the bunch of players we’ve got are pretty good. Not our present manager’s choice but a good player is a good player. The squad has been built over a couple of windows, slightly randomly and a bit bizarrely but generally they are players the manager can work with. I’m not convinced that Hughton didn’t get consulted over player acquisition before he actually took over the reins. And no Congo, I’m not suggesting a change in manager! This one will be fine.


  15. #614
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Malwood View Post
    I've seen nothing this season so far to suggest that we have the potential to be a top 6 team. The big difference from last season is that we are missing Tiago, and Lewis isn't bagging the half-chances.
    Last season Lamouchi started with 4 wins, 3 draws & 1 defeat from his opening 8. Hughton has 3 wins, 3 draws & 2 defeats.

    It’s not a huge difference. The encouraging thing for me is that we’ve started to look much better moving the ball around in the last couple of games. We aren’t on the back foot for entire games or being dominated by teams with more energy. It may be slower than we expected but things are improving.


  16. #615

    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    If you don't think Worrall is capable of playing 30+ games in a season - why would he be first choice? CB's, and the rest of the defence, are the sort of players managers expect to play every game and Joe is definitely capable of that. Both he and Cash are young players and to me both of them still looked like they had plenty of life in them as the season wore on.

    Not only that but the whole squad had a 3 month break! Then came back and performed even worse. Cash, Worrall and Watson all played after the restart in some of the most dire team performances\results we'd seen in a while. This isn't a criticism of any of them but they were involved and suggests that they aren't something we are desperately missing. Considering we are, I think, performing better under Hughton than we were after the restart last season.

    Last season the whole side focused on defence first and Worrall and Dawson were a key part of that, but they weren't solely responsible for it. Once the weaknesses of Lamouchi's setup were exposed more and more teams took advantage of it. That was the real problem. Which we saw quite brutally at the start of this season with the same performances despite a whole new set of players that the manager had chosen himself.

    As for signings well they signed some of the ones you asked for. When you look at the quality of players that have come in it's tough to think of a better transfer window in recent years. They haven't gelled yet but that doesn't mean those players are shit.
    They did add decent depth, and I think even you'll agree that Arter, Freeman and Taylor are better than Marcus Maddison and Jack Marriott. Incidentally Marriott is now out injured too.

    Hopefully Worrall and Mckenna can form a decent partnership, but I don't think that's the missing piece nor do I think he's going to make a world of difference because there's so much else that Hughton has to do. Worrall will be great to have back and along with Soh, Mckenna, Dawson, Figueriedo and Blackett the manager has a fantastic group of CB options.

    Hughton wouldn't have come here if the job was to target 14th. The key reason he will have taken this job is because it has so many of the tools to give him in order to be successful. We aren't in a relegation scrap either and it's just silly to say so. Hughton has won 3, drawn 3 and lost 2 of his 8 matches thus far - is that really relegation form? Today we played better against Barnsley than we have in the last 2 outings and have very slowly improving with each game so even on that front there's progress.
    I do think he is. Where have I said he isn't? Players need to be rotated & rested to get the best from them. For that we need good second string options, last year we didn't have that. It's pretty simple really Hulk.

    3 month break killed their fitness levels, and that was exposed by 3 games a week on return. Having a game off is not like having 3 months off, FFS Is that what you put in at work when everyone else is having a long weekend?

    Signings I asked for ages after I asked for them. Timings just as important as the player. What next, we sign Geddy again and you turn around & say "well you wanted him here nearly 10 years ago"? And you're not grasping context of the other signings either, it's pointless me re-itterating it, you just wanna jump on board with your bum-buddies to have a dig and be nob.

    Laughable post allround Hulk. They're working you too hard.

    Last edited by Alf-engelos Mindminackers; 22-11-20 at 11:24.

  17. #616
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    .

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    Wow! And I was worried about self-image when I was younger.


  18. #617
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    As much as I like Hughton and there have been obvious improvements under him his comments regarding substitutions is absolute bollocks. His refusal to make them is costing us points. I said making several subs at around 60-70 mins was crucial while we were on top to push on. He claims there was no need....There was every need and Barnsley made best use of theirs and kicked on.

    In fact the Barnsley gaffer cites it as critical in his post match too.

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    Last edited by Notcher; 22-11-20 at 12:18.

  19. #618
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by ubik View Post
    Both statements are true.

    It was a weird game.
    What was the stat, something like 80% of the teams who score first win the game.

    If we go 2-0 up I’m sure we sit back a bit and hold on.


  20. #619
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Notcher View Post
    As much as I like Hughton and there have been obvious improvements under him his comments regarding substitutions is absolute bollocks. His refusal to make them is costing us points. I said making several subs at around 60-70 mins was crucial while we were on top to push on. He claims there was no need....There was every need and Barnsley made best use of theirs and kicked on.

    The fact the Barnsley gaffer cites it as critical in his post match
    What I was thinking at the time.

    We were on top second half. I think the chance they had where they hit the bar was the only chance they had second half until the goal... and i believe it came right after they made the first two subs and we fell asleep. After that we had the Taylor chance but didn’t look that threatening for the rest of the game as Barnsley brought fresh legs on and pressured and pushed us back again. As a simple as fresh legs I think.


  21. #620
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    The big difference this season is that we started the season with no Cash, no confidence and Grabban looking as sharp as thing that isn't very sharp.
    We lost 5 games on the trot to add to that opening position.
    And thirdly, because we brought in 15 new players the rest of the Championship look forward to teaching us a lesson.
    This is likely to be the case week in, week out.
    Relegation is a real possibility this season.
    I didn't use "probability" there quite deliberately, but it is a real possibility.
    You've been predicting relegation and disaster every season for what seems like the last 10 or more years now.


  22. #621
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by adam09 View Post
    What I was thinking at the time.

    We were on top second half. I think the chance they had where they hit the bar was the only chance they had second half until the goal... and i believe it came right after they made the first two subs and we fell asleep. After that we had the Taylor chance but didnít look that threatening for the rest of the game as Barnsley brought fresh legs on and pressured and pushed us back again. As a simple as fresh legs I think.
    That's exactly how it played out. It was fairly obvious to most of us here and the Barnsley gaffer saw it so I'm not sure why Hughton always sees this differently. I'm not knocking his capabilities as a manager but this is definitely a flaw and substitutions and the timing of their introduction are a key factor during games.

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  23. #622
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    You've been predicting relegation and disaster every season for what seems like the last 10 or more years now.
    We keep just about avoiding it for so many season...and I am not predicting it.
    On the basis that only Wycombe, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby have scored fewer goals than Forest (6,6, and 5 compared to our 9) I think it is a possibility.
    It is by no means a certainty and I am not actually predicting it am I?


  24. #623
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    from scoring that wonder goal to this...


  25. #624
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    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    I do think he is. Where have I said he isn't? Players need to be rotated & rested to get the best from them. For that we need good second string options, last year we didn't have that. It's pretty simple really Hulk.

    3 month break killed their fitness levels, and that was exposed by 3 games a week on return. Having a game off is not like having 3 months off, FFS Is that what you put in at work when everyone else is having a long weekend?
    I wish!

    You were just saying their fitness levels were shot and they needed resting. But you are also saying that they the problem was them having a rest and they were more somehow more exhausted?
    Bloody hell Alf, have you moaned so much you now can't even keep your moaning straight?

    Every single team in the country had a similar amount of time off but apparently it was only our fitness levels that suffered. What did you want the club to do - rotate the players sleeping patterns too? Sign Jack Marriott to read them bed time stories?

    The performances were pretty much identical to the ones before them. Not just immediately preceding the break but even many of the games we won. If anything the reality was it was more of the same and that was predictable for opposition managers who were watching the tapes. Lamouchi bought in a raft of players he wanted over the summer and had that depth yet the performances and tactical approach were pretty much the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    Signings I asked for ages after I asked for them. Timings just as important as the player. What next, we sign Geddy again and you turn around & say "well you wanted him here nearly 10 years ago"? And you're not grasping context of the other signings either, it's pointless me re-itterating it, you just wanna jump on board with your bum-buddies to have a dig and be nob.

    Laughable post allround Hulk. They're working you too hard.
    You were only talking about some of them last season! Even when they were trying to bring in Grosicki, a player you were angry they didn't sign in January, you were grumbling about that. Are you really equating 6 months to 10 years? The recruitment this summer has been pretty great and far better than I think you give it credit for, but your opinion is your own and that's a fair cop.

    Not being a nob or piling on at all. Just pointing out how nonsensical and contradictory your posts seem to have become. At least when they were about Billy they were funny too. ;p

    You're a good lad Alf so I am not going to get into a silly argument, and I hope some day Marinakis gives you an apology for whatever he has done to you.

    Last edited by incapable hulk; 22-11-20 at 15:29.

  26. #625

    Default Re: Matchday 12: Barnsley v Nottingham Forest 21/11/2020 15:00

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    I wish!

    You were just saying their fitness levels were shot and they needed resting. But you are also saying that they the problem was them having a rest and they were more somehow more exhausted?
    Bloody hell Alf, have you moaned so much you now can't even can't your moaning straight?

    Every single team in the country had a similar amount of time off but apparently it was only our fitness levels that suffered. What did you want the club to do - rotate the players sleeping patterns too? Sign Jack Marriott to read them bed time stories?

    The performances were pretty much identical to the ones before them. Not just immediately preceding the break but even many of the games we won. If anything the reality was it was more of the same and that was predictable for opposition managers who were watching the tapes. Lamouchi bought in a raft of players he wanted and had that depth yet the performances were the same.



    You were only talking about some of them last season! Even when they were trying to Grosicki, a player you were angry they didn't sign in January, you were grumbling about that. Are you really equating 6 months to 10 years? You're doing that typical thing of someone getting what they want but then still needing to find a way to be unhappy about it. The recruitment this summer has been pretty great and far better than I think you give it credit for, but your opinion is your own and that's a fair cop.

    Not being a nob or piling on at all. Just pointing out how nonsensical and contradictory your posts seem to have become. At least when they were about Billy they were funny too.

    You're a good lad Alf so I am not going to get into a silly argument, and I hope Marinakis finally gives you an apology for whatever he has done to you.
    They needed cycling sensibly. Not playing every week so every niggle & twinge was compounded, so they couldn't out in 100%, like with Lolley. Lamouchi recognized that & tried to do it, but his options were awful, and meant massive drops in quality (like Grabban to Mir), so he was forced to play players way more than he should have had too.

    And last season is STILL 6 months too late. Grosicki was playing every week at Hull, was fit as a fiddle, and 31. Now he's playing far less, has had lockdown to sit back on, and is approaching 33. Just he's the same person doesn't mean he'd be the same signing.

    There's no contradiction, you're taking things out of context.

    And it's not EM I have the gripe with, as much as all the bullshit we constantly hear that he's done an amazing job, and the none-managerial staff at the club are infallible.

    We're 20th & haven't beat a side in the top half of the table all season, after selling another academy product to net us 16m and bringing in 14 players with that money. I think it's fair to question some of the decisions which have been made in that position.

    Last edited by Alf-engelos Mindminackers; 22-11-20 at 19:34.

 

 

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