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Thread: Crowds to return?

      
  1. #376
    They see me trollin'
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloughie1975 View Post
    Of course,they will be getting huge pensions anyway,but it's easier to recommend lockdowns and restrictions when
    it doesn't affect you or your family financially.
    The financial implications is why many people will have worked when unwell or not self isolated(because they
    can't afford to).
    Surely they would have worked while unwell even if there was no pandemic? I know i have to for a start.

    I think you're scapegoating in all honesty. They recommended what they thought was the best course of action to protect the NHS and save lives. Whether or not that was the best decision? Who knows, i'm sure it will be extensively reviewed and hindsight is wonderful thing.


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  3. #377
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I think every single facet of the pandemic response apart from the vaccination program has been an absolute farce. Either too restrictive or not enough!
    And that was only a success thanks to the research institutes involved, BoZo was wondering around hospitals shaking peoples hands saying no big deal while the Oxford/Jenner institutes focused on fixing the problem. Didn’t stop the Gov claiming the credit for it tho.


  4. #378
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloughie1975 View Post
    Maybe so,Eddie-but you can bet your bottom dollar that Whitby,Vallance and JVT will retire on massive pensions
    (and probably O.B.E's and knighthoods etc),whilst many in the population have struggled to make ends meet and
    feed their kids because of lockdowns and restrictions(particularly those working in hospitality and travel).
    That's because they're qualified to do that job and they accept the pressure associated with it, you could grab some scrote out of Greggs or Spoons in Bestwood and ask them to head up the scientific advisory group for emergencies but I'd predict they'd fail


  5. #379
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloughie1975 View Post
    The freedom to go to a football match,cinema,theatre or pub without restrictions.
    The trouble is,I don't trust this bunch-remember the 'over by Easter' and '4 day Christmas' fiascos?
    As soon as another 'variant of concern' appears(which it will),we shall no doubt be facing another winter of
    restrictions and lockdowns.
    It's just as well Churchill and the British public still had some backbone and spirit in 1939.
    Churchill wasn't PM in 1939.

    Anyway, comparing WW2 with a pandemic is just silly.

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  6. #380
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Need a bit of Chamberlain spirit


  7. #381
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Many in the UK wanted to sue for peace in 1939 and the first half of 1940, as well - there was extremely little appetite for the war. If we'd failed to evacuate at Dunkirk we most likely would have.

    Not the best comparison, all things considered.

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  8. #382
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Also worth noting that the most authoritarian nations on the planet, you know, like the ones we fought in WW2, are the nations who have had the harshest covid restrictions.

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  9. #383
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    Also worth noting that the most authoritarian nations on the planet, you know, like the ones we fought in WW2, are the nations who have had the harshest covid restrictions.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Germany’s lockdowns have been longer, more severe, and - frankly - much better organised, than those in the U.K.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    „Don't forget you're alive. 'Cause sometimes when you walk around the city and you're in a bad mood, you can think, hey, wait a minute, we're alive! We don't know what the next second will bring and what a fantastic thing this is. This can get easily forgotten in the routine of life, and that's something I'm trying to bring to my attention at all times. Don't forget you're alive. We're not dead, you know. This is the greatest thing.”

    — Joe Strummer

  10. #384
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    All of the pilot events in open air stadiums have not had any spread at all.

    They need to follow the facts, stadiums should never be empty again.


  11. #385
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Germany’s lockdowns have been longer, more severe, and - frankly - much better organised, than those in the U.K.
    I have friends who couldn't leave their house for weeks without a permit, other people were welded shut into their homes before the corpses were removed a week later, and we've all watched the tractors digging miles and miles of mass graves on the news, or the funeral pyres being burned in the street.

    It baffles me that people somehow contrive to make themselves the victims in all this - we've largely been able to live a reasonably normal life this last year, and right now we're able to enjoy most things again. We've been shielded from most of the horrors from an unchecked virus.

    It's not been easy in a lot of ways, but some perspective is needed.

    Invoking the spirit of the blitz and WW2 to make the point that we shouldn't have anymore national unity to fight this virus is just a hilarious contradiction, as well. WW2 was one of the biggest infringements on the public's freedom in the UK's history.



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  12. #386
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Whilst I do agree it’s nice to see masks not in abundance, I hope one of the normalised behaviours that comes out of this thing is wearing a mask when you’ve got a cold etc. Keep ya dutty germs to yaself!
    Or staying at home.


  13. #387
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    Churchill wasn't PM in 1939.

    Anyway, comparing WW2 with a pandemic is just silly.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    I'm well aware that Churchill wasn't PM in 1939,but he realised that Nazi expansion was a threat to our way of
    life(just as endless lockdowns and restrictions are).
    The majority of the British public do not appreciate being told what they can and can't do by a hapless
    government and certain scientists enjoying their 10 minutes in the sun.
    On a final point-where is this leading us? If we ever totally come out of COVID restrictions,what happens next
    time we have a bad flu season?


  14. #388
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloughie1975 View Post
    I'm well aware that Churchill wasn't PM in 1939,but he realised that Nazi expansion was a threat to our way of
    life(just as endless lockdowns and restrictions are).
    The majority of the British public do not appreciate being told what they can and can't do by a hapless
    government and certain scientists enjoying their 10 minutes in the sun.
    On a final point-where is this leading us? If we ever totally come out of COVID restrictions,what happens next
    time we have a bad flu season?
    And that threat was combated by the public and nation unifying under sanctions and state control never seen before. Sanctions that lasted well into the 50s, as I'm sure you know.

    To continue the tired WW2 comparison, do you reckon the public appreciated being told they had to ration, be conscripted, shelter underground every night from bombs, be forcibly removed from their homes, have the state take control of the media, etc etc? All by a hapless government that appeased the Nazis for years.

    How many hundreds of thousands dead do you reckon we'd have if we'd ignored "certain scientists enjoying their 10 minutes in the sun"? Millions? It must be incredibly galling to be thought of so poorly when your actions and expertise have saved so many lives, and helped develop and manufacture a vaccine in record time.

    I'm not going to dignify the comparison to flu season with a response. It was bad enough in March 2020; in June 2021 it's just willfully ignorant.

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  15. #389
    Warp Speed Chic
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    I love it when PZ gets his history book out


  16. #390
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    And that threat was combated by the public and nation unifying under sanctions and state control never seen before. Sanctions that lasted well into the 50s, as I'm sure you know.

    To continue the tired WW2 comparison, do you reckon the public appreciated being told they had to ration, be conscripted, shelter underground every night from bombs, be forcibly removed from their homes, have the state take control of the media, etc etc? All by a hapless government that appeased the Nazis for years.

    How many hundreds of thousands dead do you reckon we'd have if we'd ignored "certain scientists enjoying their 10 minutes in the sun"? Millions? It must be incredibly galling to be thought of so poorly when your actions and expertise have saved so many lives, and helped develop and manufacture a vaccine in record time.

    I'm not going to dignify the comparison to flu season with a response. It was bad enough in March 2020; in June 2021 it's just willfully ignorant.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    I'm not comparing COVID to flu.
    I'm suggesting that once the precedent of mask wearing,social distancing and other restrictive measures are
    established it is potentially easier for governments to reintroduce them.


  17. #391
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    To continue the tired WW2 comparison, do you reckon the public appreciated being told they had to ration, be conscripted, shelter underground every night from bombs, be forcibly removed from their homes, have the state take control of the media, etc etc?
    Worth mentioning as well that rationing didn't end when WWII ended but continued for the best part of a decade until 1954

    Any comparisons between WWII and this pandemic are as ignorant as they are insulting IMO


  18. #392
    The Foam Hand
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    I love it when PZ gets his history book out
    Where does ‘lived experience’ fit in though? I hear that phrase a lot recently so I’m guessing if a book says different anyone’s ‘lived experience’ is bollocks?
    Is there any room for nuance by any chance?

    It interests me how younger people argue a point, they champion phrases like “be kind” then tear into someone in a pack quoting stuff out of books and selective media sources. I just don’t get it, it seems contradictive to me.


  19. #393
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    Where does ‘lived experience’ fit in though? I hear that phrase a lot recently so I’m guessing if a book says different anyone’s ‘lived experience’ is bollocks?
    Is there any room for nuance by any chance?

    It interests me how younger people argue a point, they champion phrases like “be kind” then tear into someone in a pack quoting stuff out of books and selective media sources. I just don’t get it, it seems contradictive to me.
    I've no idea why you've quoted me. I just like it when Zeus talks about history.


  20. #394
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    Where does ‘lived experience’ fit in though? I hear that phrase a lot recently so I’m guessing if a book says different anyone’s ‘lived experience’ is bollocks?
    Is there any room for nuance by any chance?

    It interests me how younger people argue a point, they champion phrases like “be kind” then tear into someone in a pack quoting stuff out of books and selective media sources. I just don’t get it, it seems contradictive to me.
    I don't mean to be rude - and I apologise to Cloughie if I have been - but there's so many people in this country born in 1955 who seem to feel like they personally stormed the beaches at Normandy and need to work it into everything.

    I am very passionate about history, either way - and can never resist a debate on it, especially when I see it being used so inaccurately.

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    Last edited by Project Zeus; 16-06-21 at 23:21.

  21. #395
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    I don't mean to be rude - and I apologise to Cloughie if I have been - but there's so many people in this country born in 1955 who seem to feel like they personally stormed the beaches at Normandy and need to work it into everything.

    I can never resist a history debate, either way

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    I know what you are saying mate but you aren’t showing much generosity here.


  22. #396
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    I know what you are saying mate but you aren’t showing much generosity here.
    You're right - apologies all, I just wanted a rant about WW2.

    I'll leave it there - we're all looking forward to being able to go to full stadiums again.

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  23. #397
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    I've no idea why you've quoted me. I just like it when Zeus talks about history.
    You are my link to understanding the youth Freddie. I’ll leave you the Fender Duo Sonic in my will as compensation.


  24. #398
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    You're right - apologies all, I just wanted a rant about WW2.



  25. #399
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    I have friends who couldn't leave their house for weeks without a permit, other people were welded shut into their homes before the corpses were removed a week later, and we've all watched the tractors digging miles and miles of mass graves on the news, or the funeral pyres being burned in the street.

    It baffles me that people somehow contrive to make themselves the victims in all this - we've largely been able to live a reasonably normal life this last year, and right now we're able to enjoy most things again. We've been shielded from most of the horrors from an unchecked virus.

    It's not been easy in a lot of ways, but some perspective is needed.

    Invoking the spirit of the blitz and WW2 to make the point that we shouldn't have anymore national unity to fight this virus is just a hilarious contradiction, as well. WW2 was one of the biggest infringements on the public's freedom in the UK's history.



    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    I understand your points, but I don't understand your last sentence. My father fought in the war and I don't remember anyone of my family ever thinking that the restrictions were unnecessary; I think the thought of being overrun by the Nazis was regarded as a worse outcome than having to have a ration card.

    Admittedly I was only three at the end of the war, but I could still say "got any gum, chum".


  26. #400
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    Default Re: Crowds to return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    You are my link to understanding the youth Freddie. I’ll leave you the Fender Duo Sonic in my will as compensation.
    Link to understanding the youth? You thought I was 38 the other day


 

 

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