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Thread: Joo Carvalho

      
  1. #7801

    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkshire Red View Post
    Lolley still gets a starting place. He's produced nothing so far this season.
    And Carvalho still can't replace him.


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  3. #7802
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    I surprised that there is even a discussion about GKs on the bench now that we have seven subs. Given that you can only use three of them and most players that make the bench are therefore not used, why not?

    How many of us take out insurance, but never use it?


  4. #7803
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    And Carvalho still can't replace him.
    Must mean he's really gone downhill then, 'cos the Carvalho who played half a season under Karanka was a far superior player to what Lolley currently is. Although playing slightly different positions, it must be said.

    Maybe I should post this n the Lolley thread but I am completely amazed by the number of chances he's getting, it's a very long while since he did anything positive with the ball, his work rate cannot be criticised but his positive output is appalling these days. Even his one through ball on Tuesday to Taylor was overhit meaning the striker was forced wide onto his lesser foot.


  5. #7804

    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkshire Red View Post
    Must mean he's really gone downhill then, 'cos the Carvalho who played half a season under Karanka was a far superior player to what Lolley currently is. Although playing slightly different positions, it must be said.

    Maybe I should post this n the Lolley thread but I am completely amazed by the number of chances he's getting, it's a very long while since he did anything positive with the ball, his work rate cannot be criticised but his positive output is appalling these days. Even his one through ball on Tuesday to Taylor was overhit meaning the striker was forced wide onto his lesser foot.
    But the Lolley that played under Karanka and Lamouchi was far superior than Carvalho has ever been.

    Neither look like making a miraculous come-back any time soon. But at a quick glance (stand to be corret if wrong) one's got 24 league goals for us in Lolley, those other 5 league goals for us in Carvalho. So if you're gonna give on a chance, then I can see why it's the one who's got nearly 5 times as many goals as the other.

    I'm disappointed neither looks like being able to contribute to a playoff push when we're ready for one. Hopefully Murphy's clocked this and is already looking at other players so we don't have to rely on either. Lolley I'll always like for what he has given us, and a snip at 500k. If Carvalho leaves without improvement he'll be the worst value signing we've ever made.

    But there is still time for both.


  6. #7805
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by valspoodle View Post
    I surprised that there is even a discussion about GKs on the bench now that we have seven subs. Given that you can only use three of them and most players that make the bench are therefore not used, why not?

    How many of us take out insurance, but never use it?
    I have to also admit it was much better last season when you could use 5 subs not 3. Being able to name 7 subs and only use 3 means you can't even use half your subs.


  7. #7806

    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    That includes his loan spell. Here's the stats to FB ref.....



    https://fbref.com/en/players/36b76751/Joao-Carvalho

    So, provided I've done my sums right, that's 493 minutes after the QPR goal in the same season. 1,817 minutes with Almeria the following season. And 150 minutes this season.

    So 2,460 minutes since he last scored a league goal. That's 27.3 full games played.

    So it's a total myth that he's not had any game time. The reason people think he hasn't is because he's been so anonymous when he's played.

    Who knows, Carvalho might still come good. But the myths that he's not had the chance to do better is false.
    Context ways helps though or you end up voting Boris Johnson into power.

    7 minutes against Bournemouth, 26 minutes against Blackburn, 71 minutes at Stoke away, and a half against Derby where he was no way the worst Forest player on the pitch, doesn't really give him much chance especially when we were in the middle of our worst ever start to a season and we had a manager who was afraid of his own shadow.
    At Almeira he played more in central midfield by all accounts. None of us got to see him play so its hard to make a judgement.
    And Sabri didn't play with a 10 so stuck him on the wing when our wingers were expected to run with the ball at pace, not exactly his game.

    So yes he has been a let down, but there needs to be context to it. What a truly Forest thing to do in signing a highly promising youngster for a record fee and the doing everything we can to stall his development.

    I might be in a minority but I think he's got lots to offer still, I just don't think he'll ever get the chance with us now.


  8. #7807
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    But the Lolley that played under Karanka and Lamouchi was far superior than Carvalho has ever been. ..........

    But there is still time for both.
    Lolley's fall you can put down to his injury. Not sure what happened to Carv, maybe he was never "that" good in the first place, though I struggle to believe that having seen some of the stuff he was capable of. We all know the fee was a joke.

    I doubt either will get back to that half season under Karanka, where for two months we scored goals and looked truly threatening. Lolley has looked mainly rubbish since lockdown yet has had many, may chances. At what point do you just give up? Going on your theory we'd be playing Harewood and Johnson because they once scored goals? Hey, let's get Robbo back, he'd create more than Lolley does!


  9. #7808
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Lolley has looked a lot better recently, but still hasn't created much, I think he lacks the confidence he once had to take his man on. Maybe that's partially physical but I can't think his injury (which is made worse by running) has helped.


  10. #7809
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Be nice to see Carvalho just once more before his 50th birthdayjust in case


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  11. #7810
    Jack Armstrong
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Statto View Post
    I have to also admit it was much better last season when you could use 5 subs not 3.
    Nope. That gave yet another advantage to the richer clubs, who can afford quality in depth that other clubs cannot.

    Glad it went back to 3.

    30/09/2021: It's only 8 points to the play-offs. Doesn't matter if we're 20th having lost three times as many games as we've won so far. I fancy us now that Hughton's gone.

  12. #7811
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Someone link the highlights


  13. #7812
    oopsy daisy!
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogtits View Post
    Someone link the highlights
    Highlights of Joo Carvalho's Nottingham Forest career 2020-2021 -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guf_FTQvjYA


  14. #7813

    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ray's Redlist View Post
    Context ways helps though or you end up voting Boris Johnson into power.

    7 minutes against Bournemouth, 26 minutes against Blackburn, 71 minutes at Stoke away, and a half against Derby where he was no way the worst Forest player on the pitch, doesn't really give him much chance especially when we were in the middle of our worst ever start to a season and we had a manager who was afraid of his own shadow.
    At Almeira he played more in central midfield by all accounts. None of us got to see him play so its hard to make a judgement.
    And Sabri didn't play with a 10 so stuck him on the wing when our wingers were expected to run with the ball at pace, not exactly his game.

    So yes he has been a let down, but there needs to be context to it. What a truly Forest thing to do in signing a highly promising youngster for a record fee and the doing everything we can to stall his development.

    I might be in a minority but I think he's got lots to offer still, I just don't think he'll ever get the chance with us now.
    I have taken the context you've suggested into consideration, and to me a better player scores at least occasionally in those 20 minutes they're given. Grabban's done it many times. As did McGugan etc.

    IMO it's just one of many excuses for Carvalho's utter failure to make any significant impact at the club. Whilst ever he's at the club I won't write him off, but it's been 2.5 years of excuses out of 3. So I'm not holding my breath.

    He's definitely nearer being the worst value signing we've ever made than being a top 6 player at this time.

    And I wonder what we did to stifle his ability to score at Almeria? Was that MON's fault too? The club needs to stop copping the blame for Carvalho's own failings. If Lewis McGugan can hit 40 odd goals in 7 years for us and be chastized for his "lazyness" and deemed "not good enough" without the club copping any blame, then I'm not sure why folk expect Carvalho's 5 goals in 3.5 years to shield him from criticism.

    This is not a situation of our making, it is one born out of a player who just isn't that good, and who - as of yet - hasn't worked on himself enough to up his game to an acceptable level. If he had, he's be playing every week, and I trust Cooper's judgement more than the people who thought they knew football better than MON.

    Last edited by Alf-engelos Mindminackers; 26-11-21 at 10:42.

  15. #7814
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Comparing carvalho with lolley is pointless as one a winger that likes to run at players and the other likes to control the ball and create space. If we have 3 at the and play with 2 attacking midfielders behind grabs then we are expecting those to miss to run at them, carvs would be ineffective in that line up.

    When we play the 4231, carvs in the middle of those 3 attacking mids would be ideal, zinck has also been lacking when we have tried to play him as the 10 role.


  16. #7815
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    If Carv plays it has to be central. He had numerous punts out on the wing over the past few seasons and was completely lost.

    His best work has been picking a pass that no-one else would have seen. I would have Zinkers out wide instead of Lolley and Carv in behind Grabbs.

    If he can't get into his groove under Cooper then it's never going to happen here for him.


  17. #7816
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Please Cooper.


  18. #7817
    Wally Ardron
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    He ain't exactly been mister consistent but to not get a look in when zinc and lolley are getting minutes is just wrong

    Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk


  19. #7818
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Just announced that he has changed agent.

    Leaning towards him helping to find him a good transfer unlike Mendes seemed to do.


  20. #7819
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    Just announced that he has changed agent.
    An agent who has a working relationship with Olympiakos by any chance?


  21. #7820
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Otis Redd'un View Post
    An agent who has a working relationship with Olympiakos by any chance?
    Not sure Otis but this is the agency : https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/seg-...ma/berater/586

    Strong Dutch link.

    Also look after Nuno Da Costa


  22. #7821
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Otis Redd'un View Post
    An agent who has a working relationship with Olympiakos by any chance?
    https://www.transfermarkt.us/seg-spo...ma/berater/586

    They have a big ass list of players.... with none from oly I think.


  23. #7822
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogtits View Post
    https://www.transfermarkt.us/seg-spo...ma/berater/586

    They have a big ass list of players.... with none from oly I think.
    Only a former player (El Fardou Ben), but they do a lot of business with other Greek teams. They're a big company, mostly focused on the Netherlands and Belgium, and they were recently joined by Pep Guardiola's brother (and agent).


  24. #7823
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by rockhopper View Post
    He ain't exactly been mister consistent but to not get a look in when zinc and lolley are getting minutes is just wrong

    Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
    Why?. Zink isn’t a word beater but he’s an able technical player who influence’s games. For me he’s better out wide but when put in the centre he just gets on with it, try’s hard and pops up with goals. Lolley is a totally different kettle of fish to Carv. He’s a cut inside wide player and for me he’s miles ahead of Carvalho in terms of real output.
    I honestly can’t see why anyone thinks it’s “wrong” for them to be on the pitch instead of the Portuguese lad. They influence games, his record looks more like Matty Fryatts


  25. #7824
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    Not sure Otis but this is the agency : https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/seg-...ma/berater/586

    Strong Dutch link.

    Also look after Nuno Da Costa
    Cheers for supplying that info Bryan.

    The reason I made the comment I did was because of the stories that relationships between Jorge Mendes and EM had broken down, presumably impacting any potential move to Oly?


  26. #7825
    Ale ape.
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    Default Re: Joo Carvalho

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    Just announced that he has changed agent.

    Leaning towards him helping to find him a good transfer unlike Mendes seemed to do.
    Lets be honest, Mendes clearly forgot he existed. Too many other clients to focus on, that would bring him more money at this stage.


 

 

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