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Thread: Big Ryan Yates

      
  1. #2426
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    The argument for Yates gets inevitably louder given we lost, but that Cafu/Garner combination presents physically, has a good passing range & works tirelessly to pick opposition pockets. Execution last night lacked in parts, but Yates wont improve the passing percentage, which outside of the team looking extremely leggy, was the main issue.
    Plus take Luton and Swansea 2 of best performances reason we lost those has nothing to do with midfield in fact the reason we played so well was because of midfield. Scoring and Defending is the main issues.


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  3. #2427
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    Plus take Luton and Swansea 2 of best performances reason we lost those has nothing to do with midfield in fact the reason we played so well was because of midfield. Scoring and Defending is the main issues.
    The goal last night came about because Tunnicliffe was able to casually run with the ball straight through central midfield without being closed down or challenged.

    .k I m
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  4. #2428
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    The goal last night came about because Tunnicliffe was able to casually run with the ball straight through central midfield without being closed down or challenged.
    It would have made no difference though as Yates would quite rightly pass the runner off to Figgy because it was in the 6 yard box. The main issue is Figgy is not standing side on to a cross you cant stand looking directly out to the right wing you have a very limited view of the pitch.


  5. #2429
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    My argument is without Yates a better striker, winger and centre half we would be a much better side.
    There is an equally strong argument though that with Yates, a better striker, winger and centre half we would be a much better side.


  6. #2430
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Well it would, because Yates would likely have stopped the initial run, which is what Maxi was alluding too.


  7. #2431
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    Well it would, because Yates would likely have stopped the initial run, which is what Maxi was alluding too.
    No. You have it all wrong. Yates wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever.

    In fact, if Yates had been playing our performance would have been much worse, especially in keeping the ball, which means we would not have created as many chances to score as we did, whilst at the same time increasing pressure on the defence, which would have meant that we would probably have conceded 1, if not 2 goals prior to Yates potentially stepping in (I say potentially because we won't know for sure that he would have) to stop the this third goal.

    You need to understand football better.


  8. #2432
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    There is an equally strong argument though that with Yates, a better striker, winger and centre half we would be a much better side.
    Yes but I think we would create less and not pass the ball as well.


  9. #2433
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    Yes but I think we would create less and not pass the ball as well.
    I think what you're saying is, we need more creative midfielders?


  10. #2434
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    Yes but I think we would create less and not pass the ball as well.
    We'd be a better side though?

    That has nothing to do with Ryan Yates does it?

    Changing a completely unrelated 27% of the players around him for better ones, thus making us a better team, doesn't make any statement about Yate's ability.

    You have made the ultimate strawman argument.


  11. #2435
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    We'd be a better side though?

    That has nothing to do with Ryan Yates does it?

    Changing a completely unrelated 27% of the players around him for better ones, thus making us a better team, doesn't make any statement about Yate's ability.

    You have made the ultimate strawman argument.
    How is it strawman? Our midfield pass the ball more, are more creative, keep possession better and defend well at its best with Krovi, Cafu and Garner. The reason we lost has nothing to do with the midfield. Figgy’s total lack of awareness and Murray’s finishing is why we lost. We would have lost with Yates in the team last night just like we would have lost with Yates in the side against Swansea. Playing any midfielder at the club last night wouldn’t have made a difference to us losing.
    I think there is more sustainability in the midfield we played last night as they put in good performances and if we had a better striker and centre back would have won that easily because yeh midfield were dominant. When Yates plays the performances are not outstanding and I think that is unsustainable in the long term.
    If we had a better striker, centre half and winger we’d be better side overall with or without Yates but we’d be a slightly better side with Cafu in there than Yates.


  12. #2436
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Striker- Grabban scored more goals than any other striker for forest in years, backed up by Taylor who banged them in for a shit side Last year, Murray who has arrived with a lot of good reviews. Pretty well stocked for the second tier in that department.

    Defenders- Worral, a lad who is constantly argued about on here on his worth some expect him to be worth 20m. Mbe Soh, rated insanely highly all over Europe and a youngster from a team Consistently making the knockout stages of the CL.

    Winger- Lolley, Krov, Ameiobi, Mighten, Knockers, all rated by many championship football fans.



    I'd hazard a guess emmo, that no matter what, you will never be happy. You seem to take absolutely no joy from watching football at all.


  13. #2437
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    How is it strawman? Our midfield pass the ball more, are more creative, keep possession better and defend well at its best with Krovi, Cafu and Garner. The reason we lost has nothing to do with the midfield. Figgys total lack of awareness and Murrays finishing is why we lost. We would have lost with Yates in the team last night just like we would have lost with Yates in the side against Swansea. Playing any midfielder at the club last night wouldnt have made a difference to us losing.
    I think there is more sustainability in the midfield we played last night as they put in good performances and if we had a better striker and centre back would have won that easily because yeh midfield were dominant. When Yates plays the performances are not outstanding and I think that is unsustainable in the long term.
    If we had a better striker, centre half and winger wed be better side overall with or without Yates but wed be a slightly better side with Cafu in there than Yates.
    You said -

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    My argument is without Yates a better striker, winger and centre half we would be a much better side. Yates being in the team holds back our passing game.
    You are saying, are you not, that by replacing 27% of the team and dropped Yates we would be better?

    I am saying that if you improved 27% of the team we would be a better team irrespective of whether Ryan Yates is in it or not.

    You want to have any stick at all to beat Ryan Yates with. That's fine, go ahead, but arguing that by changing nearly 1/3 of the team in order to say we would be better without him is one of the biggest loads of bollocks I have ever seen written, and trust me, that takes some doing.

    Last edited by Erik; 03-03-21 at 16:45.

  14. #2438
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    You said -



    You are saying, are you not, that by replacing 27% of the team and dropped Yates we would be better?

    I am saying that if you improved 27% of the team we would be a better team irrespective of whether Ryan Yates is in it or not.

    You want to have any stick at all to beat Ryan Yates with. That's fine, go ahead, but arguing that by changing nearly 1/3 of the team in order to say we would be better without him is one of the biggest loads of bollocks I have ever seen you write, and trust me, that takes some doing.
    No you are right with or without Yates if we improve those 27% wed be better side. My point was the midfield play far better as a unit without him and if we improved the striker, winger and centre half with more consistent quality wed get more points and more likely promotion contenders than if we played Yates and improved the striker, Winger and Centre half.


  15. #2439
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    No you are right with or without Yates if we improve those 27% wed be better side. My point was the midfield play far better as a unit without him and if we improved the striker, winger and centre half with more consistent quality wed get more points and more likely promotion contenders than if we played Yates and improved the striker, Winger and Centre half.
    You keep telling us it's all about results and getting points.

    Someone posts an observation that recently we've got more results and points when Yates is in the team and because you don't rate Yates you now tell us that it's all about performances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    I'd hazard a guess emmo, that no matter what, you will never be happy. You seem to take absolutely no joy from watching football at all.
    ^ He's right.


  16. #2440
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    You keep telling us it's all about results and getting points.

    Someone posts an observation that recently we've got more results and points when Yates is in the team and because you don't rate Yates you now tell us that it's all about performances.



    ^ He's right.

    Erik you are right about results hence why i said this below

    Its a conumdrum because we are much better side performance wise not result wise without him. All depends if you think the performances will come good start to yield more points. My argument is without Yates a better striker, winger and centre half we would be a much better side. Yates being in the team holds back our passing game.
    We get more points with Yates but its not promotion quality and perfromance wise long term we have more chance getting promoted playing the way we did last night against Luton than playing the way we did against Rotherham.

    So I am basically saying with time and extra quality I thinkthe performances will turn into points however if it dosent in time than its pointless might as well play Yates. So longer term its more sustaianble to have performances like last night.


  17. #2441
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Erik it also depends if we can get better quality in or coach our players better as well. if they continue to miss chances and not pick up runners than you might as well try and shithouse it and get Yates in.

    If Hughton can even get more quality out of the strikers and the centre backs bar Worrall or purchase better quality than the midfield we saw against Swansea and Luton have performed much better. Depends what can be done dosent it I suppose.


  18. #2442
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    The argument for Yates gets inevitably louder given we lost, but that Cafu/Garner combination presents physically, has a good passing range & works tirelessly to pick opposition pockets. Execution last night lacked in parts, but Yates wont improve the passing percentage, which outside of the team looking extremely leggy, was the main issue.
    I think Garner negates somewhat the need for Yates as a physical presence, Cafu isn't exactly weak either, and neither is Krovinovic, though maybe not aerially (but then, Ryan doesn't score as many headers as he should for 6'3).

    In fact, for a young lad who is only slightly above average height Garner is actually pretty strong, along with his obvious passing ability and game intelligence. Similar skills to Dowell but a lot stronger and a lot better at using it.


  19. #2443
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    Erik you are right about results hence why i said this below



    We get more points with Yates but its not promotion quality and perfromance wise long term we have more chance getting promoted playing the way we did last night against Luton than playing the way we did against Rotherham.

    So I am basically saying with time and extra quality I thinkthe performances will turn into points however if it dosent in time than its pointless might as well play Yates. So longer term its more sustaianble to have performances like last night.
    So we get more points with Yates yet we'll have more chance of being promoted without him and it's more sustainable to have performances like last night when we lose.

    I'm out. Have a nice discussion with someone else.


  20. #2444
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    You keep telling us it's all about results and getting points.

    Someone posts an observation that recently we've got more results and points when Yates is in the team and because you don't rate Yates you now tell us that it's all about performances.



    ^ He's right.
    Ha! Hes got you there. Checkmate.

    Its only a conundrum to you because you dont see any way Yates can be part of a successful team.

    But the results say different. What is it you say? Football is about results not performances, if you want entertainment watch a film? Or something like that?

    You cant have it both ways.

    If we went at 2 points a game next season with Yates in the team every week, you telling me you wouldnt still be telling the world and his wife that Yates isnt a good enough passer?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  21. #2445
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRed85 View Post
    Ha! He’s got you there. Checkmate.

    It’s only a conundrum to you because you don’t see any way Yates can be part of a successful team.

    But the results say different. What is it you say? Football is about results not performances, if you want entertainment watch a film? Or something like that?

    You can’t have it both ways.

    If we went at 2 points a game next season with Yates in the team every week, you telling me you wouldn’t still be telling the world and his wife that Yates isn’t a good enough passer?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    No football is about results and in its current state as it is the best chance we have of better results is playing Yates but as a team we will need more points and better results. The context of this is getting promoted not simply getting more points.

    If this team is our lot and we keep having individual errors than the best chance we have is to shithouse it and play Yates and try and minimise individual errors.

    Promotion standard performances we have had this season are mainly without Yates because the midfield is able to dominate better whether that be pressing or passing. So if we can stop individual errors from strikers missing the target or centre halfs not tracking runners or purchase better quality than the midfield we played yesterday is the way to go completely.

    I said after to Erik it all depends dosent it? Yes the team may get more points with Yates but its also not promotion quality and thats the goal.


  22. #2446
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Just looking at Ryan Yates PPG for starts and involvments and it reads

    Starts = 22 games and 22 points average is 1 point per game which is relegation form
    Starts and Sub appearances = 26 games and 34 points = 1.31 points which over a season is 60 points which again is not promotion material


  23. #2447
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Saying that its only stats you have to consider stats as well what you see. Stats arent everything but they arent nothing as well. I agree about results and currently with the personel we have you probably play Yates if it yields more points but thats because in my view we are prone to individual errors and playing Yates is more about not getting relegated than getting promoted. if we want promotion in my view you will need either individual errors to stop by better coaching or better quality.

    Also I totally agree if with Yates we yield more points than play him but I dont think its a strategy in the long term to gain us more points for promotion. We need better and not just from him its a few players.


  24. #2448
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Stats can be presented however you want them to be, which of course you are well aware of, you've spent a decade doing it.


  25. #2449
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    Saying that its only stats you have to consider stats as well what you see. Stats arent everything but they arent nothing as well. I agree about results and currently with the personel we have you probably play Yates if it yields more points but thats because in my view we are prone to individual errors and playing Yates is more about not getting relegated than getting promoted. if we want promotion in my view you will need either individual errors to stop by better coaching or better quality.

    Also I totally agree if with Yates we yield more points than play him but I dont think its a strategy in the long term to gain us more points for promotion. We need better and not just from him its a few players.
    I am going to close my discussions with you on an agreement.

    I agree that if we buy 18 new players, all of whom are better than our existing players, then we stand a much better chance of being promoted and we probably won't need Ryan Yates to play at all.




  26. #2450
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    Default Re: Big Ryan Yates

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Stats can be presented however you want them to be, which of course you are well aware of, you've spent a decade doing it.
    Sometimes using the same stat to argue the opposite point of view twice in the same post!


 

 

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