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Thread: Ollie Watkins

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    £3-4m? Fuck that. We paid £3m for Zach Clough, who had done the business at a higher level. Paying big money for this lad (or that right back from Luton) would also set a dangerous precedent, as it would show everyone that we can be taken for a ride when it comes to transfer fees. At the prices rumoured, we should stay well clear TBH.
    Every thread and your whinging about fees or wages, are you the club accountant?

    Between me, you and everyone else on the board, what we know about the actual finances we could write on a postage stamp. We have no idea about the books, how they are being managed, ins and outs on the balance sheet or how any of these potential deals are structured. We have a chairman who in his first letter to the fans specifically highlighted ffp and the rules we will have to adhere to. We also have a director of football who I assume will be pretty clued up on what we can and can't pay before identifying these players and recommending them to management.

    At least we are targeting these young and talented guys. I'm more excited being linked to Watkins than I am a 27 year old frenchman from West Ham's reserves (purely an example).

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    Every thread and your whinging about fees or wages, are you the club accountant?

    Between me, you and everyone else on the board, what we know about the actual finances we could write on a postage stamp. We have no idea about the books, how they are being managed, ins and outs on the balance sheet or how any of these potential deals are structured. We have a chairman who in his first letter to the fans specifically highlighted ffp and the rules we will have to adhere to. We also have a director of football who I assume will be pretty clued up on what we can and can't pay before identifying these players and recommending them to management.

    At least we are targeting these young and talented guys. I'm more excited being linked to Watkins than I am a 27 year old frenchman from West Ham's reserves (purely an example).

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    By every thread, you mean this one and the James Justin thread most likely. But do go on.

    Given the last five years we have had, fans have every right to question the value of any player we sign. We do know that the club bleeds money at an alarming rate every season, a rough idea of what we lose every year, the FFP limits for each year and such. All this information is public knowledge, with our losses reported in the local newspaper no less.

    There is absolutely nothing nonsensical at all about saying that we shouldn't ought to be spending £3-4m on 4th division players. I'm all for signing talented young players, and I am delighted to have acquired Cummings and McKay for the price we did. But I don't want us to repeat past mistakes by paying vastly over inflated fees for players. I don't see why you have such a problem with me expressing that opinion TBH.


  4. #28
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    By every thread, you mean this one and the James Justin thread most likely. But do go on.

    Given the last five years we have had, fans have every right to question the value of any player we sign. We do know that the club bleeds money at an alarming rate every season, a rough idea of what we lose every year, the FFP limits for each year and such. All this information is public knowledge, with our losses reported in the local newspaper no less.

    There is absolutely nothing nonsensical at all about saying that we shouldn't ought to be spending £3-4m on 4th division players. I'm all for signing talented young players, and I am delighted to have acquired Cummings and McKay for the price we did. But I don't want us to repeat past mistakes by paying vastly over inflated fees for players. I don't see why you have such a problem with me expressing that opinion TBH.
    I see your point, but ultimately 3/4 mill is the going rate these days. The main issue for me is ensuring that central midfield is prioritised in the budget.

    I'd happily outlay the money on this kid, but only after we've put the pieces together in the middle of the park where its needed.


  5. #29
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    I see your point, but ultimately 3/4 mill is the going rate these days. The main issue for me is ensuring that central midfield is prioritised in the budget.

    I'd happily outlay the money on this kid, but only after we've put the pieces together in the middle of the park where its needed.
    I haven't seen many League Two players go for these prices, other than that Kemar Roofe fella. League One players maybe (i.e Britt for £5.5m). We have signed young players (i.e. Lansbury, Clough, Paterson) and sold young players (Darlow and Lascelles) for around £3m or less, all of whom had played at a higher level than this kid. I'm not convinced that players who haven't played about League Two are worth £3m+.*

    League Two to the Championship is a gargantuan jump in quality and we aren't really in a position for expensive gambles IMO.

    I think something closer to £1.5m would be a more reasonable fee. £3-4m should be getting you a decent player who has done well in the Championship or the top end*of League One I reckon.


  6. #30
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    Given the last five years we have had
    Under completely different ownership and management.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    fans have every right to question the value of any player we sign.
    When you have all the information, yes I think that's perfectly justified. When you have a few lines from Twitter and a newspaper, not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    We do know that the club bleeds money at an alarming rate every season, a rough idea of what we lose every year, the FFP limits for each year and such. All this information is public knowledge, with our losses reported in the local newspaper no less.
    Your trying to paint a picture when you only have crayons. Plus to my knowledge this last year's accounts haven't been published yet. Again, we now have a ownership and management structure that understands ffp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    There is absolutely nothing nonsensical at all about saying that we shouldn't ought to be spending £3-4m on 4th division players.
    Again paper and twitter talk, we don't know what they will accept. If I'm selling a car and I want a £1,000 for it, that's not my starting point. We also have no idea how any deal would be structured.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    I'm all for signing talented young players, and I am delighted to have acquired Cummings and McKay for the price we did. But I don't want us to repeat past mistakes by paying vastly over inflated fees for players. I don't see why you have such a problem with me expressing that opinion TBH.
    Look at the first part and then look at the last. Your opinion completely has zero foundation. Again we have a chairman who appears to recognise and understand ffp. We have a director of football who has already identified young players and signed two of them for very modest fees. Reading Hibs and Rangers forums we were going to have to be paying millions for those two when we got both for about one and a half million. Let's talk more about the player than the fee he might command.



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  7. #31
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by cms186 View Post
    price for him seems to be 4 million according to twitter, which seems pretty steep for a L2 lad :/
    Pretty steep? Understatement is a feature of British English I particularly enjoy.

    I think the story of Jamie Vardy has killed common sense in transfers in English football. OK, this young guy looks good on Youtube, but it is League Two for crying out loud.


  8. #32
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    More chance of Holly Valance.
    I applaud your taste.


  9. #33
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins



    Last edited by Heffing Psycho!; 14-07-17 at 17:16.

  10. #34
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    £3-4m? Fuck that. We paid £3m for Zach Clough, who had done the business at a higher level. Paying big money for this lad (or that right back from Luton) would also set a dangerous precedent, as it would show everyone that we can be taken for a ride when it comes to transfer fees. At the prices rumoured, we should stay well clear TBH.
    This post could easily have been written about Britt when we signed him.

    I agree it's steep, but a player is worth what he's worth.


  11. #35
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by J'Psycho'C66 View Post
    Vibe was brilliant when he played at TCG.

    Wouldn't mind us enquiring about him.


  12. #36
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    Under completely different ownership and management.
    Perhaps so, but the effects of the previous regime are still relevant today, and FFP hasn't gone anywhere so the rules we need to adhere


    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    When you have all the information, yes I think that's perfectly justified. When you have a few lines from Twitter and a newspaper, not so much.
    Well we know the FFP limits, we know the losses for the previous seasons, so its some information to take into consideration. Of course it's all speculation, but hey that's what these forums are for right?


    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    Your trying to paint a picture when you only have crayons. Plus to my knowledge this last year's accounts haven't been published yet. Again, we now have a ownership and management structure that understands ffp.
    Again, we know the FFP rules are and whilst we do not have last seasons details yet we do know what accounts for previous years look like (lets face it, Fawaz was still in charge so it's not a stretch to mention that last years accounts don't look too wildly different from previous seasons). When big transfer fees are mentioned, these things will inevitably be a part of the discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    Again paper and twitter talk, we don't know what they will accept. If I'm selling a car and I want a £1,000 for it, that's not my starting point. We also have no idea how any deal would be structured.
    We don't know if they would accept less than £3-4m, we don't even know if there is any truth at all in us being linked with him. But again, its a transfer forum, a place for discussing rumours and speculation. I just feel that the rumoured fees for this lad is a crazy fee for a 4th tier player, and we can get better value elsewhere (as we have done in the past).


    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    Look at the first part and then look at the last. Your opinion completely has zero foundation. Again we have a chairman who appears to recognise and understand ffp. We have a director of football who has already identified young players and signed two of them for very modest fees. Reading Hibs and Rangers forums we were going to have to be paying millions for those two when we got both for about one and a half million. Let's talk more about the player than the fee he might command.
    My opinion has about as much foundation as yours or anyone others on this forum, disagree with me all you like but lets have less of that kind sort of thing. FFP is a huge issue for every club not in receipt of parachute payments so in today's climate the player himself and the fee he would command are inseparable factors in these discussions, whether you like it or not. I said that I would like us to sign talented young players, but would rather we didn't pay an over inflated fee in doing so; Cummings and McKay were who examples of us successfully signing talented young players at good prices, as opposed to the rumoured fee for this chap.


  13. #37
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzarecteh View Post
    Vibe was brilliant when he played at TCG.

    Wouldn't mind us enquiring about him.
    Good vibe about the lasse.


  14. #38
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzarecteh View Post
    This post could easily have been written about Britt when we signed him.

    I agree it's steep, but a player is worth what he's worth.
    Britt had been a prolific goal scorer in the league above Watkins, so his price was a little bit more justifiable IMO.

    You're not wrong mind you, £5.5m was very steep for a League One player and we took a gamble paying this kind of fee. Thankfully it paid off for us big time, but it doesn't always work out that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzarecteh View Post
    Vibe was brilliant when he played at TCG.

    Wouldn't mind us enquiring about him.
    I agree with this, Vibe is a good player and is definitely worth a look if he is available.


  15. #39
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzarecteh View Post
    Vibe was brilliant when he played at TCG.

    Wouldn't mind us enquiring about him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    I agree with this, Vibe is a good player and is definitely worth a look if he is available.
    Decent player but he is 30 years old.


  16. #40
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by J'Psycho'C66 View Post
    Decent player but he is 30 years old.
    I don't think 30 isn't too bad to be fair, we could still get 2 or 3 good years out of him and he's a good, proven player in this league, though of course he comes with pretty much zero resale value (unlike what a younger player would have). If he's available and the price is right, he's definitely worth a look in my opinion.


  17. #41
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Vibe and Jota please.

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  18. #42
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Cortez the Killer View Post
    Vibe and Jota please.

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    As nice as Jota would be, I can't imagine Brentford would want to let him go, nor would the player himself want to take a step down to come to us. If he does got, he'll go to a Premier League club I reckon.


  19. #43
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Watkins and David Wheeler are both worth a look. Sticking with Watkins though, he's very energetic and intelligent off the ball. At 21 years old he does have the ingredients to become a really good striker, and yes League 2 to the Championship is a big jump, but it's not TOO big a jump because let's not forget he helped fire Exeter to what could have been League 1.


  20. #44
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Cortez the Killer View Post
    Vibe and Jota please.

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    Massive outlay, yet doesnt address our fundamental problem of protecting the back four & swiftly turning defence into attack.

    Not for a minute suggessting we go into our shell, but we need some solidity when our attacks break down.


  21. #45
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Massive outlay, yet doesnt address our fundamental problem of protecting the back four & swiftly turning defence into attack.

    Not for a minute suggessting we go into our shell, but we need some solidity when our attacks break down.
    Yep, for me if we are to make a big money signing it should be a quality defensive midfielder. Protect the back four, help us keep possession and get a foot hold in games. A midfielder that can create and score from midfield (as we have yet to replace Lansbury) and a left back are needed too, but its that defensive midfielder that will make the biggest difference.


  22. #46
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzarecteh View Post
    Vibe was brilliant when he played at TCG.

    Wouldn't mind us enquiring about him.
    This year's Aaron Davies / Stephen Dobbie


  23. #47
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Massive outlay, yet doesnt address our fundamental problem of protecting the back four & swiftly turning defence into attack.

    Not for a minute suggessting we go into our shell, but we need some solidity when our attacks break down.
    We need to sign a couple of proper Midfield Bastards ().

    Then, the rest of the team will drop into place.

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  24. #48
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Huddlestone would have fitted in well at only 2m. looks like he may be on way to De*by


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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Bristol View Post
    Huddlestone would have fitted in well at only 2m. looks like he may be on way to De*by
    And Jota.


  26. #50
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    Default Re: Ollie Watkins

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscl View Post
    We need to sign a couple of proper Midfield Bastards ().

    Then, the rest of the team will drop into place.
    Saw a rumour that we've bid for Greame Shinnie from Aberdeen. Seems like he moved from left back to centre midfield, can't say I've ever seen him play but I've heard he doesn't mind a tackle and he captains them. He might fit the mould. Only signed a new deal with them in January though.


 

 

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