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  1. #3676
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    I'll be amazed if his wages haven't dropped since moving from WBA tbh mate. He was out in the wilderness.

    But he isn't tactical enough for ze gurmans top league, and he's being played as a forward at Sheff U.

    They're on his case tonight, but he still hit the post. He's just not a forward, and needs playing like we played him originally.

    I dunno, maybe the current setup here wouldn't suit him either, but I still think there's a good Champ player in there if used right.
    He'll still be earning more than anyone at Forest I bet, his agent is an absolute magician; made him a very rich lad despite having done nothing of note in his career. 5 years of being consistently poor at numerous clubs, I just don't see him being good at this level ever again. Bomb squad material that any side in this league would do well to avoid IMO.


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  3. #3677
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke

    Holy fuck move on hahahaha


  4. #3678
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Just reading Alf's post and it amazes me when I see players being put into positions to which they are clearly not suited.

    Yesterday they played the £100million man on the wing again when he's clearly at his best when he played as McGoldrick does for Sheff Utd, playing all across the park just behind the strikers.

    And Burke is at his best storming down the wing because he has pace and strength and not much else.


  5. #3679

    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by valspoodle View Post
    Just reading Alf's post and it amazes me when I see players being put into positions to which they are clearly not suited.

    Yesterday they played the £100million man on the wing again when he's clearly at his best when he played as McGoldrick does for Sheff Utd, playing all across the park just behind the strikers.

    And Burke is at his best storming down the wing because he has pace and strength and not much else.
    Perfect summary of Burke mate. Last night he still looks like he hasn't learned much since leaving us. A proper example of a player who really should have learned his trade in the Champ for a few seasons (granted, few will turn down what he was allegedly offered financially though).

    But despite his tactical numptyness and basic being, he's still fucking RAPID and strong. They want rid of him, but as a Champ winger he will tear fullbacks to bits.

    Imagine him up against our fullbacks this year


  6. #3680
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    May as well sign Ravel Morrison whilst we are at it


  7. #3681
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    I'll be amazed if his wages haven't dropped since moving from WBA tbh mate. He was out in the wilderness.

    But he isn't tactical enough for ze gurmans top league, and he's being played as a forward at Sheff U.

    They're on his case tonight, but he still hit the post. He's just not a forward, and needs playing like we played him originally.

    I dunno, maybe the current setup here wouldn't suit him either, but I still think there's a good Champ player in there if used right.
    One month of good form 5 years ago is all he's still really living off though mate.

    That isn't all down to being played out of position as he's had so many different clubs and never really hit form again anywhere. There's some warning flags there.

    If he came back on a free transfer with low wages and a real drive to restart his career then maybe. But at a time when the club is trying to be smarter with money and bring in only players who really have that drive to succeed, it would be a weird move to splash out millions on a player who only really had a one month spell of good form 5 years ago and doesn't appear to have that attitude.

    Also he's 24 so getting close to the Murphy's cut off point.

    There was a lot of potential there but it's going to take a very particular type of manager to ever pull that out of him. I hope he does finally make a real positive step forward somewhere though as he looked a real special talent.

    "I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a c**k like a burmese python, and the mind of a f**king scientist" - Kenny Powers

  8. #3682

    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    One month of good form 5 years ago is all he's still really living off though mate.

    That isn't all down to being played out of position as he's had so many different clubs and never really hit form again anywhere. There's some warning flags there.

    If he came back on a free transfer with low wages and a real drive to restart his career then maybe. But at a time when the club is trying to be smarter with money and bring in only players who really have that drive to succeed, it would be a weird move to splash out millions on a player who only really had a one month spell of good form 5 years ago and doesn't appear to have that attitude.

    Also he's 24 so getting close to the Murphy's cut off point.

    There was a lot of potential there but it's going to take a very particular type of manager to ever pull that out of him. I hope he does finally make a real positive step forward somewhere though as he looked a real special talent.
    Yeah I agree, like I say last night he barely seems to have moved forward at all. Financially it may have been great for him, but footballing wise all he seems to have done is thrown years down the drain in terms of development.

    But Jokanovic wants to buy, and Sheff U are rumored to have to sell to buy first. Like you say, depends how it stacks up financially, but regardless of what he's done since leaving us, he still came closest to scoring for them (hit the post), and still retains his brilliant raw attributes with rapid pace & good strength.

    Lets look at how the new setup is doing first and see if Lolley has regained any real fitness/form, but if Sheff U need to trim the squad and no-one fancies him he's still got the raw attributes to tear a lot of fullbacks in this division apart. So I wouldn't say no. Could be a good loan.

    Last edited by Alf-engelos Mindminackers; 08-08-21 at 11:05.

  9. #3683
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    Yeah I agree, like I say last night he barely seems to have moved forward at all. Financially it may have been great for him, but footballing wise all he seems to have done is thrown years down the drain in terms of development.

    But Jokanovic wants to buy, so Sheff U have to sell to buy first. Like you say, depends how it stacks up financially, but regardless of what he's done since, he still came closest to scoring for them (hit the post), and still has rapid pace & good strength.

    I'd get a look at how the new setup is doing first and see if Lolley has regained any real fitness/form, but if they need to trim the squad and no-one fancies him he's still got the raw attributes to tear a lot of fullbacks in this division apart. So I wouldn't say no.
    If he has those attributes, which we all saw in 2016, then you have to question why he hasn't been able to do it since and whether that's the kind of player you want in a dressing room with so many academy players? If it's an attitude problem, do you really to bring in a player who lacks that drive to better themselves and can only boast about how much money he's made? Because the last few years have made him look like he'd be another one who is just on the outs of the squad collecting a wage. We are trying to get away from splurging money on players who are still dining out on things they did years in the past.

    Maybe he just doesn't have the genuine talent to sustain it? There has to be a reason and it's a real shame as he looked destined for big things.

    Either way there's no real justification for spending money to bring him to the club at the moment. If he's available for free then perhaps it's worth a look but I can't see Sheffield United wanting to give him away either.

    Whatever happens I really hope this is the season he finally gets himself together as it seems like a massive waste.

    Last edited by incapable hulk; 08-08-21 at 11:21.

  10. #3684

    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    If he has those attributes, which we all saw in 2016, then you have to question why he hasn't been able to do it since and whether that's the kind of player you want in a dressing room with so many academy players? If it's an attitude problem, do you really to bring in a player who lacks that drive to better themselves and can only boast about how much money he's made? Because the last few years have made him look like he'd be another one who is just on the outs of the squad collecting a wage. We are trying to get away from splurging money on players who are still dining out on things they did years in the past.

    Maybe he just doesn't have the genuine talent to sustain it? There has to be a reason and it's a real shame as he looked destined for big things.

    Either way there's no real justification for spending money to bring him to the club at the moment. If he's available for free then perhaps it's worth a look but I can't see Sheffield United wanting to give him away either.

    Whatever happens I really hope this is the season he finally gets himself together as it seems like a massive waste.
    There could be loads of reasons, but I think some players just struggle to develop certain parts of their game. Esp when played out of position like Burke has been.

    I think that's where talent and raw attributes need differentiating. Let's not forget, Antonio did very little until he signed for us at a similar age. I don't think Burke has many aspects to his game at all, but those he does have are match-winners.

    Hints of that last night at 0:35.........



    That pace is blistering and he's an eye for goal. I'd take it at the right price. He's a 10-goal/season player in this league if played right. We all talk about Carvalho needing an out let, imagine his through balls with Burke to get on to them

    No I am not Burke's agent (I'm Jack Marriots )

    Last edited by Alf-engelos Mindminackers; 08-08-21 at 12:12.

  11. #3685
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke

    Posted before in this thread, but the problem with Burke appears to be that he needs lots of hands-on attention and direct coaching to get the best out of him.

    He failed at Leipzig because he couldn’t follow instructions; the coaches felt they had to be constantly explaining things to him, and he needed lots to time to understand what he was being asked to do.

    He was a success at Celtic under Brendan Rodgers, because Rodgers - an excellent coach - put this time in with him.

    Certainly not all of his other clubs have invested that time with him (and it shows).

    Theres a Player there, but it needs the right coaching to bring it out.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    „Don't forget you're alive. 'Cause sometimes when you walk around the city and you're in a bad mood, you can think, hey, wait a minute, we're alive! We don't know what the next second will bring and what a fantastic thing this is. This can get easily forgotten in the routine of life, and that's something I'm trying to bring to my attention at all times. Don't forget you're alive. We're not dead, you know. This is the greatest thing.”

    — Joe Strummer

  12. #3686
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post
    There could be loads of reasons, but I think some players just struggle to develop certain parts of their game. Esp when played out of position like Burke has been.
    It's been 5 years though and he hasn't exclusively been played out of position. There's a reason clubs keep shipping him out and don't want to keep him around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-engelos Mindminackers View Post

    I think that's where talent and raw attributes need differentiating. Let's not forget, Antonio did very little until he signed for us at a similar age. I don't think Burke has many aspects to his game at all, but those he does have are match-winners.

    Hints of that last night at 0:35.........



    That pace is blistering and he's an eye for goal. I'd take it at the right price. He's a 10-goal/season player in this league if played right. We all talk about Carvalho needing an out let, imagine his through balls with Burke to get on to them

    No I am not Burke's agent (I'm Jack Marriots )
    They lost 1-0 though and he's not often been a match winner. It's hard to consider splashing out on a player because he hit the post once in a losing effort. Some of the worst players we've had here have scored goals!

    I think this is the key point about Burke in that we talk about him based on that solitary month of form he had here rather than the many of years to the contrary since. He's never looked like threatening to be something more. His development has flatlined and that's depsite having been through a massive amount of different coaches with different styles - they aren't all wrong. The only things we talk about are potential we thought he had 5 years ago vs anything he's actually demonstrated since. Antonio regularly played in each of the 4 seasons before joining us and scored regularly too. His career stats were on an upward trajectory whereas Burke's is still rooted in what he did here for a hot minute.

    It's difficult to assume he's a 10 goal a season player when in 5 seasons he's only managed the sum total of 16 goals - 6 of which were at Forest.

    For me it's just tough to see any kind of upside beyond signing he because he's an academy product rather than him offering anything positive for a club like ours. I hope he proves that wrong and have no doubt he'll score past us.

    I loved watching him in that opening month back then, but we need to be moving towards signing players who we can expect to make an impact and contribute, and who are going in a forward direction rather than ones we believe need a whole club building around them to get even the most modest of returns from. Someone will eventually get a good season out of him though and if that's here then great.

    Last edited by incapable hulk; 08-08-21 at 12:48.

  13. #3687
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Also, that Scott Hogan miss.


  14. #3688
    Wally Ardron
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Posted before in this thread, but the problem with Burke appears to be that he needs lots of hands-on attention and direct coaching to get the best out of him.

    He failed at Leipzig because he couldn’t follow instructions; the coaches felt they had to be constantly explaining things to him, and he needed lots to time to understand what he was being asked to do.

    He was a success at Celtic under Brendan Rodgers, because Rodgers - an excellent coach - put this time in with him.

    Certainly not all of his other clubs have invested that time with him (and it shows).

    Theres a Player there, but it needs the right coaching to bring it out.

    It may be that he’s just not very bright.

    You can have all the talent in the world but if you don’t know, or can’t learn how to use it properly then you can never be an asset.


  15. #3689
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Posted before in this thread, but the problem with Burke appears to be that he needs lots of hands-on attention and direct coaching to get the best out of him.

    He failed at Leipzig because he couldn’t follow instructions; the coaches felt they had to be constantly explaining things to him, and he needed lots to time to understand what he was being asked to do.

    He was a success at Celtic under Brendan Rodgers, because Rodgers - an excellent coach - put this time in with him.

    Certainly not all of his other clubs have invested that time with him (and it shows).

    Theres a Player there, but it needs the right coaching to bring it out.
    Make it simple, Cloughie style; here's the ball, here's a patch of grass, run into it.


  16. #3690
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    You know.. we do need some pace in the team and uhh.. we're looking for someone who can play as a striker/winger.
    If we're not going to support the striker with bodies around him, might as well launch it and let this guy run after it.

    Perhaps in a more nourishing environment, Burke would thrive again?


  17. #3691
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    We will sign he’s about 32 and played for 20 different clubs


  18. #3692
    Wally Ardron
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by DizzyBala View Post
    You know.. we do need some pace in the team and uhh.. we're looking for someone who can play as a striker/winger.
    If we're not going to support the striker with bodies around him, might as well launch it and let this guy run after it.

    Perhaps in a more nourishing environment, Burke would thrive again?
    That’s one way of simplifying the demands on Burke.

    Just treat him like the family dog out for exercise and shout “Fetch”.


  19. #3693
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Burke got all the attributes of Antonio - pace,power,strength and heading ability but lacked the intelligence to put it to good use like Antonio did but how old was Antonio when forest bought him ? 26 years old ? Burke still got time to realise his potential but need proper coaching and guidance.


  20. #3694
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Blackburn gone in for him on a years loan


  21. #3695

    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by Haych View Post
    We will sign he’s about 32 and played for 20 different clubs
    From Olympiakos.


  22. #3696
    Youth Team
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Bump


  23. #3697
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by redchief View Post
    Bump
    Has he fallen over?


  24. #3698
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    Has he fallen over?
    Probably tripped over his own feet.

    Personally, I'm glad we didn't fall into the trap of signing him.


  25. #3699
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default Oliver Burke - reasons to be somewhat peeved

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    Has he fallen over?
    Ran the wrong way down a cul-de-sac.


  26. #3700
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Oliver Burke

    Starting to look like that £15m deadline day move will be the high point of his career.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


 

 

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