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View Poll Results: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?

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  • Geoff Hurst

    23 41.07%
  • Onions

    33 58.93%
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  1. #25701
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Apparently it's the reason Rosie Duffield isn't at their conference. The hate wing of the far left have issued threats to her.

    https://twitter.com/ruthserwotka/sta...419041281?s=19
    Bit of a rock and a hard place for Starmer, this. He will either hate women, or hate trans men and be "woke", depending on who he supports in this instance.

    It's not the kind of bullshit he needs to get bogged down in, frankly, but saying Labour is anti-women because one female MP wasn't at their party conference is hardly the most convincing argument.

    Labour has more female MPs than male, and women are more likely to vote for Labour than men at every age group.

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  2. # ADS
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  3. #25702
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    There is no fuel crisis!

    The government has just suspended completion law, and is considering drafting in HM Army to plug gaps in the logistics chain, and there are apparently emergency talks going on to prevent the economic collapse of the Stanwell Refinery, just for a laugh.

    But hey, Boris is doing his best.
    There's no energy crisis either according to Angela Leadsom.

    .k I m
    I m u mm

  4. #25703
    Upper Decker
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    Bit of a rock and a hard place for Starmer, this. He will either hate women, or hate trans men and be "woke", depending on who he supports in this instance.

    It's not the kind of bullshit he needs to get bogged down in, frankly, but saying Labour is anti-women because one female MP wasn't at their party conference is hardly the most convincing argument.

    Labour has more female MPs than male, and women are more likely to vote for Labour than men at every age group.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    They were. I pulled a random tweet but there are many many like it. They will lose a lot of votes over this.

    Personally I dont care about the internal squabbles in the Labour Party. There's always something they're fighting over. But I would never trust or vote for a leader who fears to speak biological truths.

    THE TRUTH IS THERE AND WITH IT I GO TO THE END OF THE WORLD .

  5. #25704
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    „The EU workers we speak to will not go to the UK for a short-term visa to help the UK out of the shit they created themselves,” said Edwin Atema, the head of research and enforcement at the Netherlands-based FNV union, which represents drivers across the bloc.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...e_iOSApp_Other

    That’s not started well, then?

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    „Don't forget you're alive. 'Cause sometimes when you walk around the city and you're in a bad mood, you can think, hey, wait a minute, we're alive! We don't know what the next second will bring and what a fantastic thing this is. This can get easily forgotten in the routine of life, and that's something I'm trying to bring to my attention at all times. Don't forget you're alive. We're not dead, you know. This is the greatest thing.”

    — Joe Strummer

  6. #25705
    Nigel Clough
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    .


  7. #25706
    The Foam Hand
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    An interesting view on Starmer and Labour from a Labour member




  8. #25707
    Impressive member
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    There's a gulf of difference between the ideals of Ken Loach and Kier Starmer, which maybe explains why the Tories for the past few years have had the opportunity to siphon unprecedented amounts of taxpayers' money into their own pockets and the bank accounts of their cronies and donors. Even Thatcher would balk at this level of corruption. Perhaps not Putin or Trump though.

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  9. #25708
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Olaf Scholz, SPD candidate for German Chancellor, has also weighed-in on the U.K. fuel shortages, with some rather pointed comments about freedom of movement:

    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/stat...5476715327490?


  10. #25709
    The Foam Hand
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cortez the Killer View Post
    There's a gulf of difference between the ideals of Ken Loach and Kier Starmer, which maybe explains why the Tories for the past few years have had the opportunity to siphon unprecedented amounts of taxpayers' money into their own pockets and the bank accounts of their cronies and donors. Even Thatcher would balk at this level of corruption. Perhaps not Putin or Trump though.

    Sent from my SM-A920F using Tapatalk
    According to that Loach interview, Starmer and the right side of Labour are just a diluted version of that. Would you agree?

    Not much point going on about how bad the Tories and them that voted for them are whenever anyone questions the state of Labour, it’s just deflecting the problem as Loach said.


  11. #25710
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    According to that Loach interview, Starmer and the right side of Labour are just a diluted version of that. Would you agree?

    Not much point going on about how bad the Tories and them that voted for them are whenever anyone questions the state of Labour, it’s just deflecting the problem as Loach said.
    No, Bryn, I honestly wouldn't class anyone - even previous Conservative governments, who, let's face it, have never been shy in utilising their public school and business contacts to their own advantage - as being even close to what Johnson's government is.
    I think it will only last so long, even if Labour don't get their act together. Without the billionaire mainstream media outlets calling the shots in this country, the Conservatives wouldn't have had the means to convince the red wall to vote for them in such numbers. By the time those voters realise their lives are not just better off but considerably worse off since Brexit, the Tories will need to do something major to rid the stink of corruption and dishonesty from the party.

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  12. #25711
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cortez the Killer View Post
    No, Bryn, I honestly wouldn't class anyone - even previous Conservative governments, who, let's face it, have never been shy in utilising their public school and business contacts to their own advantage - as being even close to what Johnson's government is.
    I think it will only last so long, even if Labour don't get their act together. Without the billionaire mainstream media outlets calling the shots in this country, the Conservatives wouldn't have had the means to convince the red wall to vote for them in such numbers. By the time those voters realise their lives are not just better off but considerably worse off since Brexit, the Tories will need to do something major to rid the stink of corruption and dishonesty from the party.

    Sent from my SM-A920F using Tapatalk
    For all the disagreements on Brexit and red-wall-now-Tory voters, I think people need to realise those who voted for it did so as a positive choice - ie, they wanted a change to improve their stock. It doesn't matter if they were right or wrong or why particularly they did it, their vote was a vote for something better.

    Those people will give Johnson a couple of years, maybe a term, to show some improvements but if none are forthcoming they will desert him in their droves, because he is a liar, a thief and a pompous prick. People can put up with him if he will deliver something, but if he doesn't deliver, they won't put up with him.

    And to those left/remainer voters who think it is just a matter of time... there isn't an inevitability about Johnson's support collapsing. F.e those impacted by staff shortages in some of the traditionally working class roles like HGV drivers who are seeing salary rises and golden hello's are probably thinking their vote was justified as the real worth of their labour is now being shown.


  13. #25712
    Upper Decker
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    If the Tories think Johnson is going to lose them the next election they will quickly ditch him.


  14. #25713
    Matchday Squad
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    If the Tories think Johnson is going to lose them the next election they will quickly ditch him.
    I don't doubt this is the case, however the truly terrifying thing is that if and when this happens we could end up with Priti Patel as PM


  15. #25714
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    If the Tories think Johnson is going to lose them the next election they will quickly ditch him.
    Like Trump and the Republicans, it's the Boris party now.


  16. #25715
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Like Trump and the Republicans, it's the Boris party now.
    I don't think that's true. The Tories are incredibly pragmatic, and would drop Johnson at the tip of a hat if it were politically beneficial.

    It's one of the things that makes them such a successful party. They're often just as divided as Labour are, ideologically, but the key difference is that the Tories rally around the party come election season.

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  17. #25716
    The Foam Hand
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Get The Mogg in. I’d vote for them for the first time ever if they did.


  18. #25717
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    .

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  19. #25718
    Grenville Morris
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    I don't think that's true. The Tories are incredibly pragmatic, and would drop Johnson at the tip of a hat if it were politically beneficial.
    Tory pragmatism will not appeal to red-wall ex-Labour voters. It's what they were voting against Labour for when they believed that's what Labour had adopted.

    If it looks like Boris is struggling he'll probably down on rhetoric and dog-whistle politics. A more centre-right traiditional Tory like a Cameron, May or Major is going to be in that awkward situation whereby red-wallers align with Boris, and would be supporters in the leafy South are tempted to align with Lib Dems - presumably because the reason why Boris is faltering is because the economy has gone to shit. Those leafy London suburbs might even be tempted with a very centrist Starmer.

    Interesting one anyway to see where Boris/Tories go from here. They've played the Brexit card for 5 years and COVID has been a distraction from the realities that Brexit is not a panacea to this county's problems. Felt like they were lining up a potential 2022 election to try and get another five years in before those realities became stark, but I think given cost-of-living crisis which is due to hit this winter and into next year they'll be put off that early election option. So be interesting to see what happens in 2023 and 2024 in regards to public opinion to post-Brexit life in the UK and with (hopefully) COVID no longer the main news item.


  20. #25719

    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Tory pragmatism died with Brexit. If ever there was an unpragmatic approach to anything , Brexit was it.


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  21. #25720
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!




  22. #25721
    Wally Ardron
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