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Thread: Patrick Bamford

  1. #26
    Bob McKinlay
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Chelsea offered him a contract worth £7k a week; whilst we made him a very good offer, that deal was financially something that at the time we could not match.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    „Don't forget you're alive. 'Cause sometimes when you walk around the city and you're in a bad mood, you can think, hey, wait a minute, we're alive! We don't know what the next second will bring and what a fantastic thing this is. This can get easily forgotten in the routine of life, and that's something I'm trying to bring to my attention at all times. Don't forget you're alive. We're not dead, you know. This is the greatest thing.”

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  3. #27
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by tropix View Post
    We got £1.5m for Bamford
    We paid £1m for Lansbury

    That makes me feel a whole lot better. As Ravi said - move on.
    Remember when we bought Lansbury. Couldn't believe it. Top, top player with a fantastic pedigree. Still only 21.


  4. #28
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    When all is said and done I doubt very much he will make it as a regular first team player at Chelsea. I could be wrong but Chelsea have so much buying power. Bamford will really have to be top drawer to get in as a regular. Yes he looks promising but Lakaku is a similar age and is already good enough. Amazed Mourinho has loaned him out as he looks like a young Drogba. He will be the real deal. Bamford might make it but the most likely scenario is he will be moved to a lesser premier or championship team.


  5. #29

    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Two seasons later and he is now up to League One level. He'll go on to play in the Premier League at some point, but he wasn't anywhere near ready for a Championship relegation battle when he was sold to Chelsea. Either he left for £1.5 million in January and we had money to reinvest, or he'd leave in the summer for compensation decided through a tribunal. Selling him was the right move at the time to save the club.
    There was a great deal of determination went into engineering his move, nothing would have kept him here.

    Quote Originally Posted by tropix View Post
    "Wes' Organ" used to post on here quite a bit and he went to a lot of youth games. He was adamant that Bamford was still far too raw and lightweight for a relegation dogfight even though he was banging them in for the youth team.
    Watching Bamford against lads his own age and in the reserves were 2 totally different things, in one he was the bully (a big lad who was too good for the majority of players at that level) and in the other he was bullied out of the game.

    I'm afraid he was nowhere near the 1st team and the fact that it has taken him a further 2 years to make an impact in a lower league pretty much shows this to be the case.


  6. #30
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    There was a great deal of determination went into engineering his move, nothing would have kept him here.



    Watching Bamford against lads his own age and in the reserves were 2 totally different things, in one he was the bully (a big lad who was too good for the majority of players at that level) and in the other he was bullied out of the game.

    I'm afraid he was nowhere near the 1st team and the fact that it has taken him a further 2 years to make an impact in a lower league pretty much shows this to be the case.
    Some people never let reality and facts get in the way of a good opportunity to give the club a good kicking. Even when you provide a reality check they will just go onto the next opportunity to rewrite history. You are right playing against kids compared to playing against full professionals is a world of difference and he is now beginning to show some ability as he grows up but it doesn't stop idiots stirring up a new load of rubbish.


  7. #31
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    There was a great deal of determination went into engineering his move, nothing would have kept him here.



    Watching Bamford against lads his own age and in the reserves were 2 totally different things, in one he was the bully (a big lad who was too good for the majority of players at that level) and in the other he was bullied out of the game.

    I'm afraid he was nowhere near the 1st team and the fact that it has taken him a further 2 years to make an impact in a lower league pretty much shows this to be the case.
    For shits sakes, he was 18 at the time and not every 18 year old will come in and be the bees-knees, especially physically. But they certainly deserve the right to be moulded in over time if they had the talent Bamford had.

    Also the circumstances need to be understood. He first of all went into the Chelsea u21 team and banged in the goals there. Then in the emergency loan period last season after the window MK Dons signed him on loan and he got injured after getting off to a good start. He then finished last season off well at them and hence MK Dons going in again for him and Chelsea realizing playing week-in-week-out now is best for him.

    In todays world there is a lot for a young player to do before they get anywhere near the top so his 2 years work have been damn good if you ask me.

    Every level he has moved to through out his footballing life he has produced the goods.


  8. #32

    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    For shits sakes, he was 18 at the time and not every 18 year old will come in and be the bees-knees, especially physically. But they certainly deserve the right to be moulded in over time if they had the talent Bamford had.

    Also the circumstances need to be understood. He first of all went into the Chelsea u21 team and banged in the goals there. Then in the emergency loan period last season after the window MK Dons signed him on loan and he got injured after getting off to a good start. He then finished last season off well at them and hence MK Dons going in again for him and Chelsea realizing playing week-in-week-out now is best for him.

    In todays world there is a lot for a young player to do before they get anywhere near the top so his 2 years work have been damn good if you ask me.

    Every level he has moved to through out his footballing life he has produced the goods.
    For double shits sake the point was aimed at the suggestion that he should have been in our 1st team, in the Championship, 2 years ago. He shouldn't have been as he was not ready at the time.

    The circumstances as I understand them and feel free to correct me if I am wrong are: Patrick was offered a very good contract in fact the highest we have ever offered a youth player in the summer of 2011 which was rejected as Patrick wanted to concentrate on his A levels and was still undecided on whether or not to pursue a career in professional football. If we had covered a contract in chocolate he would not have touched it with a barge pole. The way the move was engineered was very disrespectful to the club and everyone who had been involved in developing him into the player he was.


  9. #33
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    For double shits sake the point was aimed at the suggestion that he should have been in our 1st team, in the Championship, 2 years ago. He shouldn't have been as he was not ready at the time.

    The circumstances as I understand them and feel free to correct me if I am wrong are: Patrick was offered a very good contract in fact the highest we have ever offered a youth player in the summer of 2011 which was rejected as Patrick wanted to concentrate on his A levels and was still undecided on whether or not to pursue a career in professional football. If we had covered a contract in chocolate he would not have touched it with a barge pole. The way the move was engineered was very disrespectful to the club and everyone who had been involved in developing him into the player he was.
    He certainly should have been more around the first team group even 2 years ago.Its not totally foreign that an 18 year-old while not the finished article can still add value (score goals!) and in turn will help him develop.

    Nope. He was training full-time as a 2nd year Under 18 and that helped him come on leaps and bounds. He wasn't training full time as a first year u18 due to 'A' levels. Forest new about his talent and should have secured him to at least a year longer than we did before Chelsea came calling. The move to Chelsea was about his personal development. Rather train with better players and not play first team football than not be involved here and train with our players. The carrot had to be dangled about first team involvement and to be honest we were in a situation do so with our goal scoring struggles.


  10. #34

    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    He certainly should have been more around the first team group even 2 years ago.Its not totally foreign that an 18 year-old while not the finished article can still add value (score goals!) and in turn will help him develop.

    Nope. He was training full-time as a 2nd year Under 18 and that helped him come on leaps and bounds. He wasn't training full time as a first year u18 due to 'A' levels. Forest new about his talent and should have secured him to at least a year longer than we did before Chelsea came calling. The move to Chelsea was about his personal development. Rather train with better players and not play first team football than not be involved here and train with our players. The carrot had to be dangled about first team involvement and to be honest we were in a situation do so with our goal scoring struggles.
    He wouldn't sign a contract!

    As I remember he wasn't training full time because of his A levels which was the reason he wasn't integrated into the 1st team group but I'll accept that. What I won't accept is that the move wasn't stage managed by Patrick and his family.

    I've never needed a reason to give Cotternill a good shoeing but in this case he wasn't to blame in the slightest.

    How much time has he spent training with Chelsea's 1st team since he left?

    Do you honestly think he would have had any impact on the 1st team at that time? If so you amaze me because I know you have watched the U18's, did you also watch reserve team because he really was garbage at that level, at that time.


  11. #35
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    He wouldn't sign a contract!

    As I remember he wasn't training full time because of his A levels which was the reason he wasn't integrated into the 1st team group but I'll accept that. What I won't accept is that the move wasn't stage managed by Patrick and his family.

    I've never needed a reason to give Cotternill a good shoeing but in this case he wasn't to blame in the slightest.

    How much time has he spent training with Chelsea's 1st team since he left?

    Do you honestly think he would have had any impact on the 1st team at that time? If so you amaze me because I know you have watched the U18's, did you also watch reserve team because he really was garbage at that level, at that time.
    You really are amazing me now ? Obviously he wanted to move and his father played a big role but he certainly trained enough in his first year as u18, u18 involvement as an u16 and plenty of time in the first half of his 2nd year with the u18s.

    The club definitely could have dealt with the situation better before it got to the circumstance it did. He certainly should have been given a longer pro than what he was given which he signed showing he was happy to be at the club at that time ! He had a pro contract if you didn't know. We would have had more power than we did.

    Garbage ? Must have been watching a different player to you. Debuted for the reserves as a 16 year old and started out shining the older players we had before these current generations. Scored 30-0dd goals in nearly 50 games for u18s which is our record and then scored 6 reserve goals in 9 starts and a few sub appearances for the reserves.

    Remember when we beat the Sheep 4-3 in a dramatic reserve game and he was the standout player by some mile on the pitch that night and Derby had a fair few seniors. Darlow, Freeman, Blake, Wallace and Lascelles all played that night.


  12. #36
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    I dont blame Cotterill for selling him we were in the pits financially I would however like to get the director or chairman who thought that paying 250k to release Cotterill from his contract and then went on to sell players because we needed money to answer for his stupidity, especially Mark Robbins was on a free and a much better manager
    Its not that Cotterill sold him, its that whilst we could not score a single goal - he could not get in the side.

    It was crazy

    "I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a c**k like a burmese python, and the mind of a f**king scientist" - Kenny Powers

  13. #37

    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    You really are amazing me now ? Obviously he wanted to move and his father played a big role but he certainly trained enough in his first year as u18, u18 involvement as an u16 and plenty of time in the first half of his 2nd year with the u18s.

    The club definitely could have dealt with the situation better before it got to the circumstance it did. He certainly should have been given a longer pro than what he was given which he signed showing he was happy to be at the club at that time ! He had a pro contract if you didn't know. We would have had more power than we did.

    Garbage ? Must have been watching a different player to you. Debuted for the reserves as a 16 year old and started out shining the older players we had before these current generations. Scored 30-0dd goals in nearly 50 games for u18s which is our record and then scored 6 reserve goals in 9 starts and a few sub appearances for the reserves.

    Remember when we beat the Sheep 4-3 in a dramatic reserve game and he was the standout player by some mile on the pitch that night and Derby had a fair few seniors. Darlow, Freeman, Blake, Wallace and Lascelles all played that night.
    We're going to have to agree to disagree of think of each other as c'nts.

    I saw and heard enough to piss me off about the way the club was treated in exchange for Patricks development.

    I'm pretty sure he wasn't training as much as his peers because of his education so the club made pretty big allowances for him there.

    I missed the Derby game I'm afraid, but I saw him in a fair few reserve team games and stand by my assertion that he was nowhere near ready for 1st team action. Just for the record I always knew he would be a decent player and enjoyed watching him perform at U18 level.

    Last question because we are just going to spend all night arguing over the same points: Would you have played him in a struggling Championship team at that stage of his development, I wouldn't.

    Last edited by Wes' Organ; 21-10-13 at 21:34.

  14. #38
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Wasn't the story that even Frank Clark had a massive falling out with his dad?

    Frank Clark is top bloke, with a huge amount of integrity and is a genuine Forest legend. If he was so worked up, then you have to think that the Bamford's were being shitty.


  15. #39
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    lol Wes 'Organ. Maybe we just going to have to.

    Guys, I will never stand up for Bamford senior. They guy is a grade 'A' ****. Thinks he is better than anybody else.

    But I just think our club was being so poorly run. We were in such turmoil with our owner, CEO, financially and we weren't producing on the pitch either. We just had no continuity and we kept changing managers and we were going from one philosophy to another. We were going up shit street.

    Arguably in there as amongst our lowest ebbs as a club.

    I blame this period with all its uncertainly that we haven't kept Freeman and Bamford myself. All we can do is move forward. Just hope some of our talented players get a fair crack of the whip.


  16. #40

    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    lol Wes 'Organ. Maybe we just going to have to.

    Guys, I will never stand up for Bamford senior. They guy is a grade 'A' ****. Thinks he is better than anybody else.

    But I just think our club was being so poorly run. We were in such turmoil with our owner, CEO, financially and we weren't producing on the pitch either. We just had no continuity and we kept changing managers and we were going from one philosophy to another. We were going up shit street.

    Arguably in there as amongst our lowest ebbs as a club.

    I blame this period with all its uncertainly that we haven't kept Freeman and Bamford myself. All we can do is move forward. Just hope some of our talented players get a fair crack of the whip.
    Don't get me started on Freeman!


  17. #41

    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Bamford had quality written all over him, so to sell him for £1.5 million was madness.

    If we'd have given him a 3 year contract on £8K per week and guaranteed first team football it'd have cost us £1.25 million over the 3 years PLUS we'd have had a great player scoring lots of goals, which might have got us to promotion, at the least out of relegation without selling Wes, etc, AND his value would have gone through the roof.

    It's the difference beteeen clubs who achieve and those who don't, Southend sell SVC for what turned out to be peanuts to us so he can rip up the league and turn us into a really dangerous team just so they can pocket the short term money, or keep him and do it themselves.

    Myopic at best, moronic at worst, but mediocre players are plentiful, gems are rare, so to sell your gems so you can buy more mediocrity is insane.


  18. #42

    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    I want to maul Cotterill in the barse with a chainsaw every time I see Bamford's name


  19. #43
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    If you read some of the previous posts you'll see that we didn't have much choice in the matter.


  20. #44

    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by tropix View Post
    If you read some of the previous posts you'll see that we didn't have much choice in the matter.
    Blah rubbish, there's ALWAYS a choice - sell tudgay, and all the rest of the players who didn't actually play to make the funds up, not the best player in a Forest shirt and the only gem we had.

    Once you start selling the family silver there's no way back, you're doomed, DOOMED I tell ye.


  21. #45
    Ian Storey-Moore
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    I don't think people understand how little control a selling club like Forest have in situations like this. If the player, agent and buying club are all in on it then Forest stand no chance, especially when theyre strapped for cash.


  22. #46
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by DillyBavies View Post
    Bamford had quality written all over him, so to sell him for £1.5 million was madness.

    If we'd have given him a 3 year contract on £8K per week and guaranteed first team football it'd have cost us £1.25 million over the 3 years PLUS we'd have had a great player scoring lots of goals, which might have got us to promotion, at the least out of relegation without selling Wes, etc, AND his value would have gone through the roof.

    It's the difference beteeen clubs who achieve and those who don't, Southend sell SVC for what turned out to be peanuts to us so he can rip up the league and turn us into a really dangerous team just so they can pocket the short term money, or keep him and do it themselves.

    Myopic at best, moronic at worst, but mediocre players are plentiful, gems are rare, so to sell your gems so you can buy more mediocrity is insane.
    HE DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY FOR US. END OF. FFS.


  23. #47
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    Its not that Cotterill sold him, its that whilst we could not score a single goal - he could not get in the side.

    It was crazy
    Yeah I agree with you I remember he got on the pitch once didnt he still not enough. We had to sell him unfortunately it was another bad time on our history we love a relapse.


  24. #48
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by Trickie Trees View Post
    HE DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY FOR US. END OF. FFS.
    I'm fairly sure at the time it was said he did want to play for us, he wanted first team guarantee. We wouldn't give him that.

    In which case going to Chelsea you would imagine would be better for his development, better coaches, facilities, etc and obviously more money.


  25. #49
    Viv Anderson
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Quote Originally Posted by DillyBavies View Post
    Blah rubbish, there's ALWAYS a choice - sell tudgay, and all the rest of the players who didn't actually play to make the funds up, not the best player in a Forest shirt and the only gem we had.

    Once you start selling the family silver there's no way back, you're doomed, DOOMED I tell ye.
    Obviously I despise Tudgay so this isn't biased but we were in financial trouble and had to sell players ok we all accept this, so then Tudgay is not going to go for over 500k I think even 300k if we are lucky. So your the manager 500k for a player that has scored goals that season or 1.5 million for a youngster than may be great in the future but wont fire us to safety in the short term its a a pretty simple choice. I hated Coterill from the moment his name was mentioned but we were fecked, the only way I can conceivably think that he could of stayed is if we hadnt of sacked Billy in the first place then we wouldnt be in such a mess.


  26. #50
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    Default Re: Patrick Bamford

    Whatever he wanted to do, wherever the contract was the biggest doesn't matter, we had a kid scoring for fun in the reserves and youth cup and a team who couldn't score in a brothel. He should have been played, the worst he could have done is not scored and still left. Perhaps being shown he was in our plans, a place on the bench, or even regular starts could have changed his mind. No one knows for sure but not playing him was a woeful decision whether he had stayed or not.


 

 

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