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  1. #25676
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    There lies another issue, why should it only be taught to those that choose to go into higher education? The millions that don't miss out on that.
    Probably because it's quite complex *blows own trumpet*

    Nah, I've had theories but I'm currently drunk and being crap at Cod


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  3. #25677
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    Probably because it's quite complex *blows own trumpet*

    Nah, I've had theories but I'm currently drunk and being crap at Cod
    The basics aren't complex at all and why would someone who chose to take on an apprenticeship have less of an aptitude to learn about something someone the same age did in further education?

    if you have something to say, say it I've been open and honest


  4. #25678
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    I was only joking, and I can't really be bothered


  5. #25679
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    I was only joking, and I can't really be bothered
    It's a touchy subject mate and those that chose not to go into further education feel like they are being spoken down to with comments like that, I'm sure you didn't intend that, but it's also a massive issue in politics in general, being spoken down to and voting against people rather than for them.


  6. #25680
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    It's a touchy subject mate and those that chose not to go into further education feel like they are being spoken down to with comments like that, I'm sure you didn't intend that, but it's also a massive issue in politics in general, being spoken down to and voting against people rather than for them.
    Made jokes like that a few times tbf. If it's became a problem I'll stop.


  7. #25681
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    Made jokes like that a few times tbf. If it's became a problem I'll stop.
    Not a problem, we were all openly discussing our opinions on Politics, Maxi asked a great question and had a few people respond much more than we would usually in this thread. Which as discussed before that, doesn't often happen. I haven't argued, I've just explained that your post (which isn't your opinion) is probably a reason as to why a lot of people feel the way they do about politics as it's "too complex for them to understand."

    I know it was a joke and I know my way around a joke, it's just a good statement to use to write another post from, which I've done a bit tonight saying "not having a pop at you" then making a point that certain words have provoked.


  8. #25682
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    So you've tried to make an example of me. It's just a joke I make every now and then, didn't need any point added.to it.

    Time for a break I think.


  9. #25683
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    So you've tried to make an example of me. It's just a joke I make every now and then, didn't need any point added.to it.

    Time for a break I think.
    No I didn't and tried to say that I wasn't. No offense was meant at all. I've hand picked a few sentences from a few posts on here tonight in every thread and made a point of saying that with each post. Like I have there.

    I can't see anywhere where I have pissed you off, not only in this thread, but any. I feel like you dislike me regardless (I have no idea why and I've also reached out to you personally about it and apologised if I had annoyed you at any point) so it's probably best we don't respond to each other at all and carry on posting as normal. It's human nature that some people don't see eye to eye and I'd rather people continued to post than feel like they need to leave the forum or in real life, the room.

    Last edited by Carlos; 22-11-20 at 01:18.

  10. #25684
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    I really get that traditional Labour votes felt let down, even betrayed by what Labour had become. I get that sense of alienation and that sense of the party sort of looking down on them.

    What I don't get is for those to people to lend their vote to Bullingdon, multi-millionaire, never really had to lift a finger, absolutely fucking hate the poor Boris and his cohort. :shrug:

    People will say that they only did it once to get Brexit done, but the reality is the shift of working class votes from Labour to Tory has been happening for the best part of a decade. What are these people seeing in the Tories? I'm genuinely intrigued because apart from Boris's already proven bullshit "level up" mantra, the Tories have been quite disdainful of the working class throughout the lifetime of everyone on here.

    Is there anyone on here who's shifted allegiance and would explain? I'm genuinely wanting to know and do promise not to spit feathers at anyone who does respond.
    Just reading back through, in answer to your question Robbie I donít know anyone that has changed allegiance. I know plenty that didnít vote though.
    Who do you vote for if no one represents you?


  11. #25685
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    Just reading back through, in answer to your question Robbie I donít know anyone that has changed allegiance. I know plenty that didnít vote though.
    Who do you vote for if no one represents you?
    I never have a clue who to vote for I just pick the best of the bad bunch from my understanding at the time


  12. #25686
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    You were sold a fairy story. That wasn't Labour's fault.
    Again i didn't buy anything, I was to young.. but you do pick up on things.

    Sent from my SM-A217F using Tapatalk


  13. #25687
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Again i didn't buy anything, I was to young.. but you do pick up on things.

    Sent from my SM-A217F using Tapatalk
    I picked a fair few things up in Wilko's broadmarsh pick n mix stand as a kid.


  14. #25688
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    I never have a clue who to vote for I just pick the best of the bad bunch from my understanding at the time

    None of them are worth a wank but I’m looking for a balance and it isn’t on offer at the moment. I don’t want to wear false eyelashes and suck off the latest oppressed movement, nor do I want to pull my pants down for some public schoolboy to shaft me up the arse.


  15. #25689
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    None of them are worth a wank but Iím looking for a balance and it isnít on offer at the moment. I donít want to wear false eyelashes and suck off the latest oppressed movement, nor do I want to pull my pants down for some public schoolboy to shaft me up the arse.
    You are completely right mate, it's all fucked and the system needs changing, the labour/Tory parties change their manifestos more than most change their pants. They do so because people will vote for their team no matter what


  16. #25690
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    Default Re: A week in politics




  17. #25691
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    Just reading back through, in answer to your question Robbie I don’t know anyone that has changed allegiance. I know plenty that didn’t vote though.
    Who do you vote for if no one represents you?
    Perhaps there's no one on this thread/forum that switched allegiance (or don't wish to own up to it) but that was a key thing for the Tories winning an 80 seat majority alongside ex-Labour voters who didn't vote.

    Who do you vote for if no one represents you? No one party is perfect. I probably align most to Labour but there are things I don't like about them and there are things about other parties I do like. One major reason I align more with Labour is because where I live in Broxtowe it's a straight fight between Labour and the Tories. It's a compromise at the end of the day isn't it and if you're really still feeling ostracised then you can spoil your ballot which is always better than not voting.

    Be interesting to see what happens in 2024 though. Politics is cyclical and at some point people will forgive Labour for the perceived economic mismanagement and driving down wages and instead will blame those things on the Tories after being in government for 15 odd years.

    Maybe at some point people will realise that there's not a huge difference between the parties. Perhaps with one you'll get better public services and the other you'll get a few hundred quid off the tax bill but beyond that life won't change for many.

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  18. #25692
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Perhaps there's no one on this thread/forum that switched allegiance (or don't wish to own up to it) but that was a key thing for the Tories winning an 80 seat majority alongside ex-Labour voters who didn't vote.

    Who do you vote for if no one represents you? No one party is perfect. I probably align most to Labour but there are things I don't like about them and there are things about other parties I do like. One major reason I align more with Labour is because where I live in Broxtowe it's a straight fight between Labour and the Tories. It's a compromise at the end of the day isn't it and if you're really still feeling ostracised then you can spoil your ballot which is always better than not voting.

    Be interesting to see what happens in 2024 though. Politics is cyclical and at some point people will forgive Labour for the perceived economic mismanagement and driving down wages and instead will blame those things on the Tories after being in government for 15 odd years.

    Maybe at some point people will realise that there's not a huge difference between the parties. Perhaps with one you'll get better public services and the other you'll get a few hundred quid off the tax bill but beyond that life won't change for many.
    This is why proportional representation is so important.

    ĄI believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialismď

    ĄDon't forget you're alive. 'Cause sometimes when you walk around the city and you're in a bad mood, you can think, hey, wait a minute, we're alive! We don't know what the next second will bring and what a fantastic thing this is. This can get easily forgotten in the routine of life, and that's something I'm trying to bring to my attention at all times. Don't forget you're alive. We're not dead, you know. This is the greatest thing.Ē

    ó Joe Strummer

  19. #25693
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    This is why proportional representation is so important.
    Catch 22 - every time I feel compelled to vote Labour here to try and stop the Tories from winning Broxtowe but if it was a PR system I would strongly consider a vote for greens. As long as FPTP is our system and I live here I will likely vote Labour even though doing so props up that system which disenfranchies me a little bit.


  20. #25694
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Bit late to this discussion as been busy all weekend & then trying to catch-up whilst doing the bare minimum of my job. So here's the comments/tuppence worth of someone not so articulate as the 'main players' on here:

    This thread isn't quite as bad as the Brexit one. But there is a degree of highbrow snobbery from those with forthright views about those who take the opposite stance.

    The 'Leftist Circle Jerk' thrown at some folks is often a source of mirth - but many a true word really is spoken in jest.

    Politics should be taught in schools alongside other essentials such as Budgeting, Basic Maintenance Skills, Commerce & Cooking. Some folk just don't do academia - but giving them the most basic of skills to get through life might just give them the grounding they need to progress in life should they finally 'get it' when they're a bit older.

    I'm not sure how politics can be taught in an unbiased way though. Instead of teaching it then becomes indoctrination. My perception is that a lot of Metropolitan University taught folk are left leaning (based on my own experiences - hence my perception & may not be reality)

    Political alliances can change. Political parties evolve. I'm a typical tory - I believe in 'helping those that help themselves'.(I do also believe that you should help those that can't help themselves - but not to the point that you are limiting those that can). But I voted for Labour at the last election. Why? Because I believe that the current Conservative Party in government are 'helping themselves to help themselves'.

    Apologies if the above is a little disjointed. That comes from me trying to contribute as I'm working and also supporting my Mrs with the little ones - meaning I started typing this about an hour before completing and broke away more than a dozen times to do work/home stuff - that's fairly typical of my contributions on this forum)

    Your palms are holding her neck and thumbs are at her ears regulating the speed of her head as she swallows and then sucks up your machinery. She is topping up your engine oil for the cross-country coming up. Your RPM is hitting a new high. To wait any longer would be to lose prime time... She picks up a Bugatti's momentum. You want her more at a Volkswagen's steady trot. Squeeze the maximum mileage out of your gallon of gas. But she's eating up the road with all cylinders blazing.

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  21. #25695
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Pope View Post
    Bit late to this discussion as been busy all weekend & then trying to catch-up whilst doing the bare minimum of my job. So here's the comments/tuppence worth of someone not so articulate as the 'main players' on here:

    This thread isn't quite as bad as the Brexit one. But there is a degree of highbrow snobbery from those with forthright views about those who take the opposite stance.

    The 'Leftist Circle Jerk' thrown at some folks is often a source of mirth - but many a true word really is spoken in jest.

    Politics should be taught in schools alongside other essentials such as Budgeting, Basic Maintenance Skills, Commerce & Cooking. Some folk just don't do academia - but giving them the most basic of skills to get through life might just give them the grounding they need to progress in life should they finally 'get it' when they're a bit older.

    I'm not sure how politics can be taught in an unbiased way though. Instead of teaching it then becomes indoctrination. My perception is that a lot of Metropolitan University taught folk are left leaning (based on my own experiences - hence my perception & may not be reality)

    Political alliances can change. Political parties evolve. I'm a typical tory - I believe in 'helping those that help themselves'.(I do also believe that you should help those that can't help themselves - but not to the point that you are limiting those that can). But I voted for Labour at the last election. Why? Because I believe that the current Conservative Party in government are 'helping themselves to help themselves'.

    Apologies if the above is a little disjointed. That comes from me trying to contribute as I'm working and also supporting my Mrs with the little ones - meaning I started typing this about an hour before completing and broke away more than a dozen times to do work/home stuff - that's fairly typical of my contributions on this forum)
    Most universities are left leaning and it’s creeping into schools, it’s big debate in the USA at the moment and from the teachers and lecturers I know it’s a growing thing here.
    I agree young people should be taught the basics but influencing them with your own bias is abusing your position as an educator in my opinion. I’m sure if it was commonplace that educators were influencing young people to be right wing there would be plenty said about it especially in the current climate.

    I know a Jewish maths teacher that retired early this year because he got tired of snide comments in the staff room, one teacher said to him she openly supported Palestine. It worries me that someone like that is teaching our kids.


  22. #25696
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    Most universities are left leaning and itís creeping into schools, itís big debate in the USA at the moment and from the teachers and lecturers I know itís a growing thing here.
    I agree young people should be taught the basics but influencing them with your own bias is abusing your position as an educator in my opinion. Iím sure if it was commonplace that educators were influencing young people to be right wing there would be plenty said about it especially in the current climate.
    Iíd suggest it would be very difficult for teachers, who by definition, work within a publicly funded system, and therefore would benefit both personally and professionally from a political ethos that has spending on public institutions as one of its core pillars, to not be left-leaning.
    Just as I would expect teachers that work in private schools to be right-leaning.

    Iíd compare to sending your kids off to a Roman Catholic school and then being surprised when theyíre not taught to worship Islam.

    Last edited by congo_red; 23-11-20 at 19:57.

  23. #25697
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by congo_red View Post
    I’d suggest it would be very difficult for teachers, who by definition, work within a publicly funded system, and therefore would benefit both personally and professionally from a political ethos that has spending on public institutions as one of its core pillars, to not be left-leaning.
    Just as I would expect teachers that work in private schools to be right-leaning.
    I agree but the question raised was can politics be taught in an unbiased way?


  24. #25698
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    I agree but the question raised was can politics be taught in an unbiased way?
    It can be. If the teacher were to concentrate on presenting the facts, philosophies and ideologies in a balanced and unbiased way.
    In reality, it wouldnít be though.


  25. #25699
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by congo_red View Post
    It can be. If the teacher were to concentrate on presenting the facts, philosophies and ideologies in a balanced and unbiased way.
    In reality, it wouldn’t be though.
    My thoughts are the same.


  26. #25700
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    Default Re: A week in politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Pope View Post
    I'm a typical tory - I believe in 'helping those that help themselves'.(I do also believe that you should help those that can't help themselves - but not to the point that you are limiting those that can).
    That description also fits centrism chief. You’re a Lib Dem and you just haven’t realised it yet...


 

 

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