Who does Clough 'belong' to?

[Rich]

Has anyone read this months Four Four Two?

There is, what appeared at first, to be a good article on Brian Clough and whether he 'belongs' to Forest or Derby. It's written by Duncan Hamilton of PYDKM fame, and having read that, I would have imagined a bit of Forest bias in this article. However, having read it, it seems very Derby-centric. All fo the interviews are conducted outside the Sheep Pen, and they even credit a pictrue of Clough with OUR trophies as Clough with their trophies (Plural?), even though Clough clearly has a Forest badge emblazoned on his jacket.

Anyway, just wondered if anyone else had read it, and what their thoughts were.

Also, who do you think he 'belongs' to? Would be interested to hear from the couple of the decent Derby fans on here too.

 

[winnits]

I think he belongs to both.

I don't have any problem at all with that idea either, it seems Derby fans have a massive chip on their shoulder about the Clough name - hence their general pleasure at appointing his son, whereas here I think would've been more muted.

I also think that if the boot were on the other foot Forest fans would be exactly the same.

It boils down basically to bitterness, jealous and a very real demonstration of what might have been (in fact, what almost certainly would have been) were it not for an idiot board.

So they are left to rationalise seeing a local rivals made great, by a man they can't hate.

You can kind of understand the psychology behind it.

 

[Rich]

In big bold letters in the article it states 'I wish I'd never left. Some of my heart was in Derby'.

There is a picture of the statue in there, and James Perch.

Slightly off topic, but there is also an article on football messageboards in this month. Actually quite a good read!

 

[Daniel]

I haven't read the article yet but shall do however based on the idea of who Clough belongs to is easy. Clough belongs to the table of special enigma's in the entire footballing world. The table shared by very few but to be adored by ALL football fans. He belongs to everyone and not one club purely because of the success he had.

The fitting tribute that still sticks with me this day is the memorial in the CG car park shortly after he died a Derby scarf and Forest Scarf were tied together. Despite all our rivalries and the banter we have with Derby only one man could pull it together.

Therefore I don't even think it is an argument, he belongs to football and had touched the heart and soul of fans all over the world. He belongs there, we were lucky to have him as our manager.

 

[winnits]

Be there not online versions of these articles?

Some of us are well entrenched in the digital age!

 

[Rich]

I like having a magazine to flick through. I imagine the 442 website might have an online version.

Dan, your opinion is shared with the summary in the article, kind of. It claims 'Clough's heart is still there [Derby]. And now so is his son's. But if you ask me to whom Brian Clough really belongs, I'd say unhesitatingly to football, and the people who cherish it'

 

[EmJay]

Brian Clough "belongs" to nobody but Brian Clough.

Actually just recently I met a girl who's down here for Uni. Got chatting, got on pretty well etc etc. Then it came up that she's a D*rby fan :dry: Anyway the look of disgust on my face must have given me away and she quickly blurted out "oh well, at least we have Cloughie in common"

 

[king_congo_red]

Does Clough 'belong' to Derby or Nottingham?

The answer for me is simple. "Neither".

Brian was born and raised in Middlesborough so, for me, he'll always belong to Middlesborough. Just like, no matter how much I achieve in Peterborough or wherever I move on to, or even how long I stay, I will always consider myself to be 'from' Nottingham. It made me who I am.

Nottingham, on the other hand 'belongs' to Clough.

 

[trickytrees12]

Does Clough 'belong' to Derby or Nottingham?

The answer for me is simple. "Neither".

Brian was born and raised in Middlesborough so, for me, he'll always belong to Middlesborough. Just like, no matter how much I achieve in Peterborough or wherever I move on to, or even how long I stay, I will always consider myself to be 'from' Nottingham. It made me who I am.

Nottingham, on the other hand 'belongs' to Clough.

 

[dellaroc]

This whole love for Derby stuff is just the newest example of "accepted wisdom" in football.

It's up there with "all Scousers are Everton fans", "all Celtic fans support Ireland" and "all Chelsea fans are upper middle class rugger buggers." He made a throwaway comment because he was a contrary bugger and he liked to antagonise people. That's what made him great. If he really loved Derby that much, why did he stay at us for 18 years and reject numerous approaches by the Derby board to bring him back?

He belongs to us. Ask any football fan with which team is he synonymous and they'll say Nottingham Forest. Derby was nothing but a prelude, an apprenticeship, the club where he learned the techniques that made him the greatest manager in the history of the game. He became the greatest whilst sitting on the bench at the City Ground and no amount of revisionist tosh like this will ever change that.

 

[Benchwarmer]

I read the article and also realised LOTS of errors, both in the text and involving "that" photo.

I was flabbergasted when the author concluded that Cloughie may belong to Derby as he said that he wished he never left. Having said that, the only side of Forest's argument was portrayed by his own biased opinion, and sought the opinions of a few Derby fans before the game.

Hardly a valid article, but nevertheless good to see Forest in 442.

 

[Rich]

I read the article and also realised LOTS of errors, both in the text and involving "that" photo.

I was flabbergasted when the author concluded that Cloughie may belong to Derby as he said that he wished he never left. Having said that, the only side of Forest's argument was portrayed by his own biased opinion, and sought the opinions of a few Derby fans before the game.

Hardly a valid article, but nevertheless good to see Forest in 442.

I have to fully agree with you there.

The only photographs of fans were Derby fans, indeed one of the pictures was a Derby fan holding a giant cock with a Forest shirt on it. Hardly balanced reporting.

I would have expected more from a guy whose biggest 'hit' was a book predominantly bought by Forest fans about his experiences following Brian Clough with Forest.

Had it not been for Clough and Forest, this author would have been writing about some tin pot team who may or may not have had a good result at the weekend. Instead, he was travelling the world writing about Forest and has now made a pretty penny writing about those experiences, technically for the second time.

It did rile me that the slant on the article is geared toward a preconceived opinion that Clough was a Derby man.

Even the supposed balanced ending 'he belongs to football' had the caveat of Clough loving Derby.

He spent 3 times as long here, won things here and has his name emblazoned atop the biggest stand here. The people who loved him built him a statue, the people of Derby have a Starbucks in their stadium and stands named after the direction they face.

If Clough loved Derby more than Forest, the balance of reciprocation makes his love unrequited.

 

[Nffc-Girl]

He belongs more to us than Derby, he had the major success with us and whenever another football fan thinks 'Brian Clough' they think Nottingham, not Derby.

Brian had the chance and the offer to go back to Derby and leave Forest when Peter Taylor went back, he didn't, so what does that tell you.

Derby fans go on and on about him but they where is their Brian Clough stand and Brian Clough statue?

Derby fans just want to be us, end of.

 

[Jonathan]

I agree with most of you lot in that he belongs to both, or neither.

Neither us, nor Derby, in my opinion, can lay claim to him any more than the other.

Cloughie was his own man and holds both clubs in his heart.

I'm more than happy to share him with them.

As for the article, though, I thought it seemed a bit of a rush job and was commissioned to fill a gap in the magazine rather than as a planned feature.

 

[Scumbaggio]

Has anyone read this months Four Four Two?

There is, what appeared at first, to be a good article on Brian Clough and whether he 'belongs' to Forest or Derby. It's written by Duncan Hamilton of PYDKM fame, and having read that, I would have imagined a bit of Forest bias in this article. However, having read it, it seems very Derby-centric. All fo the interviews are conducted outside the Sheep Pen, and they even credit a pictrue of Clough with OUR trophies as Clough with their trophies (Plural?), even though Clough clearly has a Forest badge emblazoned on his jacket.

Anyway, just wondered if anyone else had read it, and what their thoughts were.

Also, who do you think he 'belongs' to? Would be interested to hear from the couple of the decent Derby fans on here too.

me, you anyone who wants a piece surely?

 

[Tutts]

Doesn't he belong to Michael Jackson after he bought the rights from Paul McCartney?

 

[goatboy]

I reckon anywhere that's willing to get a statue put up could be said to have 'dibs' on the man, in a nice sense. Chop chop, Derby!

I think he belonged to Barbara, and I think he'd agree.

The "I'm a Derby Man" quote gets taken out of context a lot and is used as an argument winner, I'd not be inclined to use it though, any more than if he'd said "I'm a Forest Man" would I think that was any kind of sleight against Derby. It was there that he first was able to prove himself as a winner following his injury, so what club could compete with that?

In fact, I'd say the only true answer to the question of who owns Cloughie is "Not Leeds" - and aren't we all, at each club he's been at, glad of that?

 

[sedgred]

This whole love for Derby stuff is just the newest example of "accepted wisdom" in football.

It's up there with "all Scousers are Everton fans", "all Celtic fans support Ireland" and "all Chelsea fans are upper middle class rugger buggers." He made a throwaway comment because he was a contrary bugger and he liked to antagonise people. That's what made him great. If he really loved Derby that much, why did he stay at us for 18 years and reject numerous approaches by the Derby board to bring him back?

He belongs to us. Ask any football fan with which team is he synonymous and they'll say Nottingham Forest. Derby was nothing but a prelude, an apprenticeship, the club where he learned the techniques that made him the greatest manager in the history of the game. He became the greatest whilst sitting on the bench at the City Ground and no amount of revisionist tosh like this will ever change that.

Spot on, :cheers:, just wish I understood what synonymous means :wink:

 

[alabamared]

I think belongs is a bad concept.

What many people forget (especially D**by fans) is that he had the chance to return to Derby after he came to Forest but before we had won anything. He thought about and on that day he talked to the Derby Board.

BUT HE CHOSE FOREST

And nobody can disagree with that.

 

[goatboy]

"all Chelsea fans are upper middle class rugger buggers."

Ignore the holligans and glory hunters and I think you'll find that both Chelsea fans are indeed middle class rugger buggers....

 

[redwood]

This strikes me as a lot like the debate over who Robin Hood 'belongs to' - meaningless - no matter how much publicity is spewed out by the county of Yorkshire, or how many airports are renamed, the debate remains irrelevant; ask anyone in the world where Robin Hood lived, and they'll say Nottingham.

No-one 'owns' Cloughie, the important thing is that if you ask any football fan in the world who was Brian Clough, they'll only give you one answer.

 

[Northern Monkey]

Clough himself would be disgusted to think that someone would claim to 'own' him.