Utility Players

[Kier]

While players like Perch do add value to the squad for their versatility, are they only classed as being a utility player because they are not good enough to hold down a single position?

For example Perch really can play in three positions, centre midfield, and both full back positions. Gunter can play in three positions as can Cohen, but they are not classed utility players because they are good enough to make one position their own and just fill in in their from time to time.

It's pretty bad when Perch has been in the team for over five years but yet not one manager has found him a permenant or regular position in the team, or worked out his best position.

 

[wes for england]

he even admitted himself that, that is his weakness, that he can play in too many positions.

 

[king_congo_red]

I have great respect for Perch. He always puts the team before himself, even when it's detrimental to him.

His problem is, it often suits managers for him to be that 'utility' player, rather than be regulalrly employed in a single position, as, if he were a starter, the team would need to bring in 2 or 3 additional; players to 'back-up' the positions which he does - or unbalance the side by moving him around.

 

[DapperDan]

he even admitted himself that, that is his weakness, that he can play in too many positions.

I think he is weakness is not that, but rather that he is not good enough in any one position to make it his own.

As the original poster stated, Cohen and Gunter can play a number of positions also but are good enough in one to not be copnsidered utility players.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

While players like Perch do add value to the squad for their versatility, are they only classed as being a utility player because they are not good enough to hold down a single position?

For example Perch really can play in three positions, centre midfield, and both full back positions. Gunter can play in three positions as can Cohen, but they are not classed utility players because they are good enough to make one position their own and just fill in in their from time to time.

It's pretty bad when Perch has been in the team for over five years but yet not one manager has found him a permenant or regular position in the team, or worked out his best position.

The difference between your examples is that if you polled the forum on which position Gunter was best in, 99% would say right back. If you did the same for Cohen, you'd probably get about 90% centre midfield and 10% left midfield.

Now ask the same for Perch and you'd probably be split down to 40% right back, 30% defensive midfield, 10% centre back, 10% right midfield, 10% centre midfield.

The first two mentioned are also good enough to hold down their favoured position. Perch on the other hand, is not. (Whatever his favourite position is!)

 

[fsor12]

5 years in trying to hold down a permanent place proves that he really isn't good enough
if he is not going to it now he never will , at Forest anway and to be quite frank , i'm bloody glad he hasn't.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Fsor mate, have you go anything good to say about Forest -- I've browsed through three threads and read negative (and knee-jerk OTT) opinions on two Forest players, one of which has widely been regarded as one of the best buys in recent years (McKenna) the other can slot in a and play quite comfortably at full back (Perch) and was recently approached by Newcastle.

BTW do you go to the match?

Boring mate

 

[Kier]

Fsor mate, have you go anything good to say about Forest -- I've browsed through three threads and read negative (and knee-jerk OTT) opinions on two Forest players, one of which has widely been regarded as one of the best buys in recent years (McKenna) the other can slot in a and play quite comfortably at full back (Perch) and was recently approached by Newcastle.

BTW do you go to the match?

Boring mate

I have not missed a home game this season and have been to 7 away games, makes my opinion more than valid and informed.

I have watched Perch for years and he has never impressed me at all. As for your point regarding Newcastle, do you really think he would have been a regular starter there? With superior players in every position he can play?

 

[winnits]

He's talking to fsor rather than you, Kier

 

[Kier]

He's talking to fsor rather than you, Kier

lol Must learn to read posts more carefully!

 

[red_outlaw]

I have not missed a home game this season and have been to 7 away games, makes my opinion more than valid and informed.

I have watched Perch for years and he has never impressed me at all. As for your point regarding Newcastle, do you really think he would have been a regular starter there? With superior players in every position he can play?

The trouble with Perch is that he's never really been given a chance in his favoured position which is in the centre of defence which is why I think much of the criticism is unfair. I do, however, admire him for never complaining and giving his all, even though he's been played out of position for pretty much the whole of his first-team career. He's been a victim of his versatility.

Until he's given the opportunity to prove himself as a centre back, I won't consider myself to be fully qualified to judge his ability (which I admit seems ridiculous for a player who's featured in around 200 matches).

 

[Caveman Ninja]

Fsor mate, have you go anything good to say about Forest -- I've browsed through three threads and read negative (and knee-jerk OTT) opinions on two Forest players, one of which has widely been regarded as one of the best buys in recent years (McKenna) the other can slot in a and play quite comfortably at full back (Perch) and was recently approached by Newcastle.

BTW do you go to the match?

Boring mate

I agree... never seen a positive post out of the boy. Needs to man up and stop moaning about everything.

 

[goatboy]

With Perch he's had runs in midfield he hasn't had at right-back, which I believe to be his natural position. This is because we've not during those periods had much of a midfield. Jesus, wiht Commons down the left a defensive midfield role for Perch is a no-brainer when you've got Chambers who can theoretically play at right-back. And that's Perch's curse. When the midfield is wanting, someone else 'will do for now' at right back. Since, there's been injuries and Gunter and he'll over come one but he won't overcome the other. If he's going to get a run, it should be with Gunter moving to somewhere else he is effective - such as left back.

 

[Carvel]

I think the fact that he's still in the team after 5 years shows he's more than good enough. Look at the other players that have left. Most of them are at worse teams now.

Look at his stats, he's had a good 2 and a half years as a permanant fixture in the side. Managers may not know his best position, but they certainly all know that he's good enough.

 

[Erik]

Perch's big problem is because he's versatile he's often used to cover gaps in the squad.

Therefore, most Forest supporters see him as a 'stand in' and don't consider him to be a first choice.

While he remains a Forest player most of the support will only consider him as that, no matter what he does.

 

[scampi]

The difference between your examples is that if you polled the forum on which position Gunter was best in, 99% would say right back. If you did the same for Cohen, you'd probably get about 90% centre midfield and 10% left midfield.

Now ask the same for Perch and you'd probably be split down to 40% right back, 30% defensive midfield, 10% centre back, 10% right midfield, 10% centre midfield.)

There's only one way to find out...... poll!

http://www.forestforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14577

 

[Kier]

I may not rate him, but that was one cracking tackle at the death to properly earn us the win

 

[winnits]

A match-saver that was, a great tackle, and not his only one (although the best). He's still a bit of a Perch-out-of-water (arf) but I thought he did very well today.

 

[king_congo_red]

Utility player or not...I think we can all agree on one thing. Perch is a better player than John Thompson...

 

[Billy Hunt]

Sounded like Perch had a good game tonight, the tackle as mentioned and Fray praised him for some back post defending on one or two occasions (although there was a dodgy one where he left it and Camp had to scramble it past the post). All in all he had a good game, at least from my interpretation of a radio broadcast.

I wasn't having a pop at you Kier, and well done for getting to so many games. I am a post-graduate student, but live on the bread line so as to attend most home games (missed one or two) and have been to 4 away games. It's not a competition though and I don't want it to come across that way when I talk about games attended. Anyway, I respect your opinion as long as it's a well-thought-out explanation; the other chap has just stuck up a sentence ranting about how poor Perch is. Just think that is a unsubstantiated, poor effort and an incorrect opinion.

 

[nffc1991]

He is a utility player at this level and would be for most clubs, however I would certainly say that he would maintain a place at Right Back or Defensive Midfield in League One, possibly even Centre Half.

 

[Red Duster]

Sounded like Perch had a good game tonight, the tackle as mentioned and Fray praised him for some back post defending on one or two occasions (although there was a dodgy one where he left it and Camp had to scramble it past the post). All in all he had a good game, at least from my interpretation of a radio broadcast.
QUOTE]

At least Billy Hunt you admit you formed this opinion by listening on the radio! I think Colin and formerforestcaptainJohnMcGovern sit high up on the halfway line.

I was sat low in the Trent End last night so had a good view of the incident i think you are referring to. The ball was coming directly toward me behind the back post, Perch did well to stop the man he was marking getting anything on the ball (otherwise it could have gone a distance either side of Camp). As it was, the ball went past Perch and the Blunt and Camp tapped the ball around the post. On the BBC highlights you see the Blunt being eased off the ball and appealing to the ref. Well done to our defence all round I thought.

The forum kindly informs us how many posts a member has made, whether (s)he pays, how long (s)he's been a member. Wouldn't it be good if it could tell us how the poster gets his information - goes to every game, goes to home games, went last night, listened on the radio, Whats the Football League Show, watched Forest Player, followed LTLFchat, has a relative that used to be a professional footballer etc etc?

 

[red9]

Perch is a MAJOR Asset to Forest, I can also remember in the Bad old days Wesley morgan playing up front when most weeks we were desperate

Lay off Perch He is Forest Through and through.

 

[zigga-zagga]

Perch is a MAJOR Asset to Forest, I can also remember in the Bad old days Wesley morgan playing up front when most weeks we were desperate

Lay off Perch He is Forest Through and through.

So am I, and I would be as much use as he is at left back. The lad is being played out of position, no-one is denying that but he is playing and therefore, quite rightly, he is open to criticism.

So called utility players have always suffered by not quite being good enough in a single position to hold down a regular spot. The only 'utility player' I can remember who was excellent wherever he played was Paul Madeley for Leeds (before your time I imagine) all the others have suffered for being dubbed 'utility'

 

[red9]

So am I, and I would be as much use as he is at left back. The lad is being played out of position, no-one is denying that but he is playing and therefore, quite rightly, he is open to criticism.

So called utility players have always suffered by not quite being good enough in a single position to hold down a regular spot. The only 'utility player' I can remember who was excellent wherever he played was Paul Madeley for Leeds (before your time I imagine) all the others have suffered for being dubbed 'utility'

Yawm OK we Will get Stuart Pearce back, Live in the Dream!