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This may be a stupid question, but....

Flaggers

Flaggers

May not be the best moderator on LTLF, but he's...
LTLF Minion
Would someone please explain to me why we (amongst other teams) often play a different formation away from home?

Is the game not 90 minutes, away?
Is the pitch not grass, away?
Is it not 100 yards by 75, away?*
Is it not 11 v 11, away?
Is it not the same rules, away?

If, for example, 4-4-2 works (at home) with your personnel, then why in god's name would you not play that formation away?

As the subject line says, it may be a daft question, but I'd appreciate a decent explanation as to why we feel the need often to play a different away structure?

(+/- a few yards)
 
It's an odd one. There's the psychological factor of being away - we see teams do the same at the City Ground. I'd rather just see us play to our strengths regardless.
 
I would say the crowd play there part at home they are with you and visa versa
 
Our away crowd is almost universally better than our home crowd though...
 
Yeah i was thinking that. Dexter said something very nice about the away support on his twitter last night.

Too many empty vessels at home games.
 
Flagman said:
Would someone please explain to me why we (amongst other teams) often play a different formation away from home?

Is the game not 90 minutes, away?
Is the pitch not grass, away?
Is it not 100 yards by 75, away?*
Is it not 11 v 11, away?
Is it not the same rules, away?

If, for example, 4-4-2 works (at home) with your personnel, then why in god's name would you not play that formation away?

As the subject line says, it may be a daft question, but I'd appreciate a decent explanation as to why we feel the need often to play a different away structure?

(+/- a few yards)
Click to expand...

Please see my comments on this topic in the Portsmouth-Forest thread and reference to Cardiff City
 
matt1982 said:
Please see my comments on this topic in the Portsmouth-Forest thread and reference to Cardiff City
Click to expand...
We're on a similar wavelength here - I hadn't read your comments before posting the new thread, but I've been thinking this away lark for a while and finally got round to posting it..!
 
Winnits said:
Our away crowd is almost universally better than our home crowd though...
Click to expand...

They are, but are sometimes out-sung at some grounds.

Whereas at home, you would expect the home crowd to out sing the away following, no matter if the whole ground doesn't join in!
 
Do you? Aside from rubbish fans like Boro and Ipswich I'd say generally the away end wins against the home fans. I suppose it depends where you sit (I'm very close to the away end). It would be interesting to have a gauge from on the pitch.
 
My understanding of formation tactics in really simple terms relates to the general tendancy to play more defensively away from home. I'm guessing but the squad are more familiar with the pitch, the crowd, the ground etc and are more comfortable to play more of an attacking game.

What do I know? I'll stick to bras and knickers. lol
 
I thought the Ipswich fans, while certainly not the loudest, were far from rubbish. The worst I've heard recently were the Swansea fans. So quiet!
 
My armchair opinion is that if a home team doesn't attack the home spectators boo. The away team need to stifle the home team until that happens and the home teams attacks get more and more desperate leaving them vulnerable to counter attacks.
 
overrated manager attack attack attackattackattack
 
Manager's often change their tactics/formations depending on the quality of the pitch.

If its like a carpet get your passing men out there and play it on the deck, if its a ploughed field use a target man and by-pass midfield with more direct play.

Billy did this last season starting Adebola away from home when the conditions weren't the best.
 
Last edited:
poole_red said:
Manager's often change there tactics/formations depending on the quality of the pitch.

If its like a carpet get your passing men out there and play it on the deck, if its a ploughed field use a target man and by-pass midfield with more direct play.

Billy did this last season starting Adebola away from home when the conditions weren't the best.
Click to expand...

But the point is Cardiff (if you have read my comments on the other Portsmouth-Forest thread, i use their example) are playing on the same pitches as us, but they almost never (barring enforced injury etc changes) change their team/formation. They play their strongest team/formation because they BELIEVE and their manager BELIEVES that they are the best and he has confidence in those players to beat teams home and away. Now they have very good players admittedly, but Jones doesn't say, oh look it's Barnsley this week at Oakwell with their horrible pitch etc, I'd better leave Whittingham out or leave Chopra/Bellamy on the bench. For me, we need to be more like them and BELIEVE we are one of the biggest sides in the division and start acting like it, home AND away. Not trying to pander to other teams/grounds threats/formations and start IMPOSING ourselves on them more.
 
Stop asking stupid questions.
Just because it's in capitals doesn't mean it's more important.
Why?
 
Only Billy Davies can answer this question with any clarity, so unfortunately we will never know.

My opinion is that we go away from home and give the opposition too much respect.

We should do what every other team do to us and press the ball and close down quickly and frustrate the opposition, this is easily done playing 4-4-2.
 
The game may not change profoundly away from home, but the width and length of the pitch ARE different, the atmosphere obviously is different, the grass is quite often a different length (to suit the home side), and even more importantly, the home side is used to the conditions and therefore knows what to expect before stepping on the pitch. Hence why home sides are expected to dictate more of the play and why away sides set themselves up to counter attack.

It should be noted that our changes in formation, home and away, were very successful last season until Billy Davies changed the tactics at Derby . . . to 4-4-2. A tactic we persisted with for the rest of the season. And we didn't win another away game. I think if football was as simple as outlined in the first post, then the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Ancelotti, etc., would find themselves bound to them rather than playing different tactically home and away. Whether we accept it or not, it's clear that there is a difference between home games and away games. In fact, at home, we can virtually play any tactic and still win. You'd think by law of averages if the game was exactly the same home and away we could just do the same and win every now and again.
 
the home team is always expected to atack in games with the away team being seen to come with getting a point and anything else is a bonus. at home this suits us as we can play our fancy football and atack and more often than not win games, the only teams that realy came to the city ground last term with the intention of atacking where watford and blackpool (play off game) funnily eneugh we got soundly battered, but for reasons known to only billy he has changed formations and tactics at home and away all through his term so its not just away from home.

I genuinly believe we are a good side when we are allowed to be and that tends to be at home when sides come for a draw, away from home the home sides will always be looking for 3 points so atack us more putting us on the back foot more which is where the mistakes creep in and we just aint that good deffensivly as people think.
 
RICH1977 said:
the home team is always expected to atack in games with the away team being seen to come with getting a point and anything else is a bonus. at home this suits us as we can play our fancy football and atack and more often than not win games, the only teams that realy came to the city ground last term with the intention of atacking where watford and blackpool (play off game) funnily eneugh we got soundly battered, but for reasons known to only billy he has changed formations and tactics at home and away all through his term so its not just away from home.

I genuinly believe we are a good side when we are allowed to be and that tends to be at home when sides come for a draw, away from home the home sides will always be looking for 3 points so atack us more putting us on the back foot more which is where the mistakes creep in and we just aint that good deffensivly as people think.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the point of this thread is why is it like that with Forest? And I'd argue it isn't like that with other sides. What difference does it make where you play? Why aren't you trying to win the game, with your strongest team, home and away? Big sides in this division do that, like Newcastle last season, and Cardiff this season. They set up and try to win games home and away, playing their strongest teams. Because they believe they're big sides, they're confident in their sides and they set about proving it week in week out. Earnshaw has said it before, Forest need to start acting like a big side in this division and throwing their weight around a bit. But the problem is we haven't got enough big time players to do it. And I think that's why Billy changes the team so much, using the line of 'different types of game in this league'. You think he'd change the team every week home and away if we had the likes of Chopra, Bothroyd, Bellamy, Burke and Whittingham at our disposal?
 
Play the "Catenaccio" away from home.

Catenaccio is infamous. Hated by some (including Bill Shankly) for its cynical, game-killing nature, others find it one of the most fascinating tactical evolutions for the way it grinds out the necessary results. Often thought of as the default setting for Italian sides, in reality true catenaccio differs from the modern Italian 5-4-1 in that it is asymmetrical.

The left wing back is encouraged to run from deep to give width on the left when attacking. The right winger, on the other hand, is encouraged to track back and cover the right hand side when defending. The sweeper or “libero” acts as a catenaccio or bolt deep in the centre of the field, while his two centre backs patrol the defensive line. The midfield acts as a shield for the defence, with one of the midfielders winning the ball and the other playing penetrating passes from deep. Finally, the left-most attacking midfielder uses his vision to pick out passes for the two forwards; one a deeper lying inside forward surging from midfield, and the other a lone striker.
 
matt1982 said:
Yes, but the point of this thread is why is it like that with Forest? And I'd argue it isn't like that with other sides. What difference does it make where you play? Why aren't you trying to win the game, with your strongest team, home and away? Big sides in this division do that, like Newcastle last season, and Cardiff this season. They set up and try to win games home and away, playing their strongest teams. Because they believe they're big sides, they're confident in their sides and they set about proving it week in week out. Earnshaw has said it before, Forest need to start acting like a big side in this division and throwing their weight around a bit. But the problem is we haven't got enough big time players to do it. And I think that's why Billy changes the team so much, using the line of 'different types of game in this league'. You think he'd change the team every week home and away if we had the likes of Chopra, Bothroyd, Bellamy, Burke and Whittingham at our disposal?
Click to expand...



the point is we are not good eneugh in my opinion to do this, we only realy dominate teams that allow us to do so and this happens at home as they dont come and atack us in the way they would at home, when away from home teams come at us from the off and it pushes us back and forces us to hit long wastefull balls from the back its a mind thing I just think that billy isnt confident to aproach a team in a atacking way away from home as he is fully aware they will most probably pour men foward and punnish us at the back. the run of clean sheets we had at home last season wasnt down to great deffending imho it was down to teams not wanting to atack us so they had very little to do.

and yes wba,newcastle and now cardiff this eason dont aproach games in this manner but look at the quality they have compared to us.
 
Home teams are expected to attack, so if playing slightly more defensively and hitting the opposition on the counter works then it's perfectly fine to play two different types of game depending on whether you're home or away.

Unfortunately for us, we're shocking away and should just stick to what we know works at home. Even if we only win half of the away games, it'll still give us a better yield than we're currently getting.

Earnie and Majewski should always play.
 
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