The World Famous City Ground - Home of the PROPER WORLD‘S OLDEST LEAGUE CLUB

[Lady Penelope]

It was Rushcliffe Borough Council who were against it, as there was a proposal to bend the tramline into Ruddington and then into Clifton, but RBC pushed - aggressively - to completely exclude Rudd, as they would get not finance from the tramline (apparently) so the tramline southbound goes down the riverside into Clifton directly.

And misses out the whole of Ruddington. Which was at the time seemingly a dumb idea, but there you go.

Could still happen. The old GCR route through Rudd remains, and a P and R near the country park would help enormously with the traffic congestion on the A60/A52.
Rushcliffe, or rather WB, were dead set against the tram. there were some loud anti-tram voices in Compton Acres too, now silent because of the increase in the value of their houses.
I'm unsure if that it is still the case that WB are strongly anti-tram.
Traffic in the centre of Rudd remains a nightmare though. I was there last week and it's awful to get through.

 

[Lady Penelope]

I think it's way past time for Forest to show a 'concept' of the BE (rebuilt or revamped), and also a statement of intent re the BC and TE facilities. My own view is that I'd want to 'advetise' what the club want to do with the BE before a spade is in the ground on the PT. maybe they already have, but .....

 

[Statto]

Could still happen. The old GCR route through Rudd remains, and a P and R near the country park would help enormously with the traffic congestion on the A60/A52.
Rushcliffe, or rather WB, were dead set against the tram. there were some loud anti-tram voices in Compton Acres too, now silent because of the increase in the value of their houses.
I'm unsure if that it is still the case that WB are strongly anti-tram.
Traffic in the centre of Rudd remains a nightmare though. I was there last week and it's awful to get through.

I think a lot of issues in the centre of Rudd are because of people parking on the street between the road out to the crossroads and the mini-island where you go out to Clifton. I'm sure if they made that double yellows all the way up it would be much easier to get through.

They could also easily extend the tram along the old railway line to the railway centre by the country park, but it's not really obvious where a park and ride facility could go. It'd need a fair amount of road to link it to the A60 which is what you'd need primarily, which would push it well into green belt land and you'd still then have to avoid the country park. Having done that it'd probably also be worth linking to Fairham (though the P&R at Mill Hill would still work well for them) which would probably be used as a rat run.

 

[Flaggers]

The tram is an archaic mode of transport and the current implementation in Nottingham is a bag of unmitigated shit run but a useless and - more importantly - bankrupt company.

If they were to get rid and let some competent people run it, it might end up being a functional, Victorian-era mode of transport, nothing more, nothing less.

Without a steering wheel and some batteries it's doomed to failure in the modern era

 

[YellowBelly Red]

The tram needs to come south and east, not just for serving the City Ground and Trent Bridge.

There are now huge housing developments at Radcliffe, Bingham, Wilford Hill amongst others. Traffic is getting horrendous, which means poorer air quality.

 

[Professor Wolfgang Schnell BSc. PhD.]

Without a steering wheel and some batteries it's doomed to failure in the modern era

Very much this.

But, as we already have the tram routes, we could run electric/bio-gas buses on them. Certainly no need to build any new ones.

 

[Shearstone]

It was Rushcliffe Borough Council who were against it, as there was a proposal to bend the tramline into Ruddington and then into Clifton, but RBC pushed - aggressively - to completely exclude Rudd, as they would get not finance from the tramline (apparently) so the tramline southbound goes down the riverside into Clifton directly.

And misses out the whole of Ruddington. Which was at the time seemingly a dumb idea, but there you go.

It's not like Rudd missing out on the tram stopped the riff raff getting in either. Cliftoners cross the border to Rudd in their droves every week.

 

[Otis Redding]

I can't remember whether it was the council or the WB residents (or both) that opposed it, but I seem to recall the original plans for the tram going over Trent Bridge and down Central Ave.

As Strum confirms, it was RBC following no, or little formal consultation of Rushcliffe residents.

 

[Statto]

The tram is an archaic mode of transport and the current implementation in Nottingham is a bag of unmitigated shit run but a useless and - more importantly - bankrupt company.

If they were to get rid and let some competent people run it, it might end up being a functional, Victorian-era mode of transport, nothing more, nothing less.

Without a steering wheel and some batteries it's doomed to failure in the modern era

It's certainly an issue. The tram basically being unable to go anywhere there isn't a track, is probably why it has so many issues. Though people being muppets and driving onto the tracks where the signage clearly indicates no and the road looks like a railway track, or idiots jumping reds and crashing into trams like happened the other week in the Meadows, clearly aren't the fault of the tram.

The tram needs to come south and east, not just for serving the City Ground and Trent Bridge.

There are now huge housing developments at Radcliffe, Bingham, Wilford Hill amongst others. Traffic is getting horrendous, which means poorer air quality.

There's certainly a lot of areas where the tram could go. At the moment we have relatively decent coverage probably as far as Ruddington (cos it's not that far to Clifton), Wilford, parts of West Bridgford, Clifton, Beeston/Chilwell, University area, the Meadows, and then on the previous stage Bulwell, Hucknall, Cinderhill, Radford etc, So that's basically most of Nottingham west of the A60 and nothing the other side.

There keeps being noise about putting another line along the railway by the racecourse and alongside the A612 then heading into Gedling along the old railway line by the cricket pitch and into the new estate, but the problem with that is that it doesn't really serve much of the area, south of the A612 is not primarily residential, so it goes around the edge of the area rather than through it, and there's also a massive void between Colwick and Sneinton where it's not doing much at all because there's a massive cliff in the way. But if they took it more into the communities, along Carlton Road/Hill would be rather disruptive, and even along something like Sneinton Dale and Oakdale Road would not be ideal, and of course that is a dead end, though there was an idea of extending that into Conway Road which could work.

They could also quite easily pop a line up to Mapperley and up the A60 through Sherwood, though that would be disruptive too, and how well do trams go up big hills?

 

[Strummer]

I think a lot of issues in the centre of Rudd are because of people parking on the street between the road out to the crossroads and the mini-island where you go out to Clifton. I'm sure if they made that double yellows all the way up it would be much easier to get through.

They could also easily extend the tram along the old railway line to the railway centre by the country park, but it's not really obvious where a park and ride facility could go. It'd need a fair amount of road to link it to the A60 which is what you'd need primarily, which would push it well into green belt land and you'd still then have to avoid the country park. Having done that it'd probably also be worth linking to Fairham (though the P&R at Mill Hill would still work well for them) which would probably be used as a rat run.

Rudd is, and has been for years, a massive rat-run to shortcut between the A60 and A52, sat-nav is a problem there is it shows (for example) the route through Ruddington as the quickest way to get from Loughborough to the M1 which is bonkers, so you get some drongo in an articulated lorry getting stuck at the Frame Breakers as his or her sat-nav has insisted on diverting them through Ruddington, rather than up the A60 to Nofttingham Knight and then along the A52 towards the Brian Clough Way and the M1.

It never used to be that bad, but since especially the two major new housing estates were built, the developers did not - yet - follow up on road improvements, so despite the recent-ish works at the Kirk Lane/A60 traffic lights, there are massive bottlenecks in the village itself, Dutton‘s Hill is a nightmare, as is Clifton Road and the Main Street/ Church Street junction is a mess, as the village simply cannot cope with the volume of traffic, let alone that generated by 1.2k new housing occupants (or whatever nonsense number it was) and there is still, no plan for a southern relief road that would (for example) loop from the A60 around Bunny somewhere completely south of Ruddington and across to the Brian Clough Way part of the A52 towards the M1.

Much as we loved our time living in Rudd, the last couple of years the traffic situation was atrocious, and nobody seemed bothered to sort it, as the developers of the new estate(s) had made their money and cleared off.

 

[Lady Penelope]

There seems to be a resurgence in anti-trammitus on here. Going forward, we have to have much better public transport. Look at the French cities, anywhere in Europe, and tram systems are being expanded or going in. The problems locally are: competing councils of different political persuasion (an issue which also impacts on the development of roads and, er, football grounds); and, the fact that the Nottm tram system was based on old technology and so many financial cuts were imposed on it post 2010 ... for example, no passing point to allow for 'limited stop' services from Toton and Clifton / the ridiculous pinch-points in the city centre, where one daft car driver or one drunken idiot can close the whole system down.
Trams are good IMO and we need more of them, ideally on dedicated routes to avoid the daft car drivers and, ideally, with conductors to collect fares and keep an eye on things. Solo late night travel for me back to Toton can be challenging, and I don't scare easily.

 

[Lady Penelope]

Rudd is, and has been for years, a massive rat-run to shortcut between the A60 and A52, sat-nav is a problem there is it shows (for example) the route through Ruddington as the quickest way to get from Loughborough to the M1 which is bonkers, so you get some drongo in an articulated lorry getting stuck at the Frame Breakers as his or her sat-nav has insisted on diverting them through Ruddington, rather than up the A60 to Nofttinghsm Knight and then along the A52 towards the Brian Clough Way and the M1.

It never used to be that bad, it since especially the two major new housing estates were built, the developers did not - yet - follow up on road improvements, so despite the recent-ish works at the Kirk Lane/A60 traffic lights, there are massive bottlenecks in the village itself, Dutton‘s Hill is a nightmare, as is Clifton Road and the Main Street/ Church Street junction is a mess, as the village simply cannot cope with the volume of traffic, let alone that generated by 1.2k new housing occupants (or whatever nonsense number it was) and there is still, no plan for a souther relief road that would (for example) loop from the A60 around Bunny somewhere completely south of Ruddington and across to the Brian Clough Way part of the A52 towards the M1.

Much as we loved our time living in Rudd, the last couple of years the traffic situation was atrocious, and nobody seemed bothered to sort it, as the developers of the new estate(s) had made their money and cleared off.

Add to that the summertime processions of lycra-clad head camera wearing cyclist who chose to hurtle through Rudd at crazy speed. I was once witness to a multi-cyclist crash o/s the Frame Breakers and it was roundly applauded by everyone in attendance.

 

[Statto]

Rudd is, and has been for years, a massive rat-run to shortcut between the A60 and A52, sat-nav is a problem there is it shows (for example) the route through Ruddington as the quickest way to get from Loughborough to the M1 which is bonkers,

Sat nav has forgotten about the A512... or indeed even the A6.

 

[Strummer]

Living in Germany as I do, I’m a massive fan of the fully electrified tram networks.

The Stuttgart tram can take me pretty much anywhere in the city for peanuts, and with my €58 a month season ticket, I can use that „Deutschlandticket“ for public transport in absolutely any German city, at no extra cost, which is a phenomenal saving.

For slightly longer journeys we have the suburban S-Bahn trains, which are also covered under the „Deutschlandticket“ for the same €58 a month, so you’re laughing.

 

[RichNFFC]

travel for me back to Toton

Hello, Mr. Cartledge.

 

[Bing Crosby's Head]

Yes, I read that.

Birmingham have, I think, £2.4 billion of government monies for transport improvements/rail to their proposed new stadium.

Benefits of strategic thinking.

Kind of helps when you decide to up sticks from your spiritual home to a site next to a route that has been earmarked for a tram extension out to Heartlands, Airport and Solihull for many years though.

 

[Mr H]

The tram is an archaic mode of transport and the current implementation in Nottingham is a bag of unmitigated shit run but a useless and - more importantly - bankrupt company.

If they were to get rid and let some competent people run it, it might end up being a functional, Victorian-era mode of transport, nothing more, nothing less.

Without a steering wheel and some batteries it's doomed to failure in the modern era

“The tram is an archaic mode of transport…
Without a steering wheel and some batteries it's doomed to failure in the modern era“.

Agree that local councils are useless but the rest is ridiculous .

I always use the tram for every Forest game - easy, quick, convenient, have a few pints, no driving.

Cars are crap.

 

[Mr H]

The tram needs to come south and east, not just for serving the City Ground and Trent Bridge.

There are now huge housing developments at Radcliffe, Bingham, Wilford Hill amongst others. Traffic is getting horrendous, which means poorer air quality.

The more tram the better.

 

[Statto]

“The tram is an archaic mode of transport…
Without a steering wheel and some batteries it's doomed to failure in the modern era“.

Agree that local councils are useless but the rest is ridiculous .

I always use the tram for every Forest game - easy, quick, convenient, have a few pints, no driving.

Cars are crap.

The point is still with a tram that as they are "live" and confined to the tracks, if there is any issue such as a power outage, they are rooted to the spot (where even if they had a backup battery they could get to the end of the line) and if there is an issue on the track they are also stuck - a bus can divert, even if that has other implications.

Cars may well have their downsides, but nothing is likely to replace the combination of door-to-door convenience, at exactly the time you need it, with the flexibility of being able to do it how and where you want, and without having to share or rely on others.

 

[Professor Wolfgang Schnell BSc. PhD.]

There seems to be a resurgence in anti-trammitus on here.

Well, for starters it's the massive infrastructure cost (and associated time taken) before any new line can happen.

And then it's the inflexibility of the system thereafter (accident on the tram lines again ???).

There are other cheaper and more flexible alternatives nowadays.

And as the current NET trams can only take 250ish people per tram, it is not really a suitable solution for a 40,000 football crowd.

 

[Rzar]

£200,000 to improve cycle access along Lady Bay Bridge and from Scarrington Road

I would love to know what the plans for this actually are

They are literally building a cycle/pedestrian bridge a quarter of a mile down the river because you can't really do anything with Lady Bay Bridge in terms of cycling. It's terrible to cycle on which is why they wanted the new bridge in the first place.

The only thing I can think off is adding a ramp on that abandon grassy section the river side of where those stairs are.

 

[Mr H]

Rudd is, and has been for years, a massive rat-run to shortcut between the A60 and A52, sat-nav is a problem there is it shows (for example) the route through Ruddington as the quickest way to get from Loughborough to the M1 which is bonkers, so you get some drongo in an articulated lorry getting stuck at the Frame Breakers as his or her sat-nav has insisted on diverting them through Ruddington, rather than up the A60 to Nofttingham Knight and then along the A52 towards the Brian Clough Way and the M1.

It never used to be that bad, but since especially the two major new housing estates were built, the developers did not - yet - follow up on road improvements, so despite the recent-ish works at the Kirk Lane/A60 traffic lights, there are massive bottlenecks in the village itself, Dutton‘s Hill is a nightmare, as is Clifton Road and the Main Street/ Church Street junction is a mess, as the village simply cannot cope with the volume of traffic, let alone that generated by 1.2k new housing occupants (or whatever nonsense number it was) and there is still, no plan for a southern relief road that would (for example) loop from the A60 around Bunny somewhere completely south of Ruddington and across to the Brian Clough Way part of the A52 towards the M1.

Much as we loved our time living in Rudd, the last couple of years the traffic situation was atrocious, and nobody seemed bothered to sort it, as the developers of the new estate(s) had made their money and cleared off.

“Much as we loved our time living in Rudd, the last couple of years the traffic situation was atrocious, and nobody seemed bothered to sort it, as the developers of the new estate(s) had made their money and cleared off”

Hmmmn. Probably council fault as developers have to show how they would mitigate issues and have to make section 106 or NCIL payments - these can be significant sums.

 

[Rzar]

The tram is an archaic mode of transport and the current implementation in Nottingham is a bag of unmitigated shit run but a useless and - more importantly - bankrupt company.

If they were to get rid and let some competent people run it, it might end up being a functional, Victorian-era mode of transport, nothing more, nothing less.

Without a steering wheel and some batteries it's doomed to failure in the modern era

Can't agree with that at all, Nottingham's public transport system is very good which is mainly due to the tram whether it be directly or indirectly by taking stress off the bus system. The more routes they add the better.

If you think our public transport system is rubbish then go to any city of a similar size.

 

[Lady Penelope]

Tram upgrades are needed:

over TB for the WFCG
battery powered for some sections of the route (example is Birmingham)
third rail systems (Bordeaux, Orleans0
longer trams on new lines to add capacity
passing loops on existing lines
alternative route through the city centre (east of the centre, Lower Parliament St and Huntingdon St)
new route eastwards to Netherfield, Gedling and Arnold (using existing rail routes for much of it)
forget about extending to Derby ... silly idea

Then you've got a network, which is what we don't have right now.

Oh, and whoever built that art gallery to block the tunnel through Victoria wants bloody shooting (adopt Clough voice for the last bit).

 

[Statto]

Tram upgrades are needed:

over TB
battery powered for some sections of the route (example is Birmingham)
third rail systems (Bordeaux, Orleans0
longer trams on new lines to add capacity
passing loops on existing lines
alternative route through the city centre (east of the centre, Lower Parliament St and Huntingdon St)
new route eastwards to Netherfield, Gedling and Arnold (using existing rail routes for much of it)
forget about extending to Derby ... silly idea

Then you've got a network, which is what we don't have right now.

Oh, and whoever built that art gallery to block the tunnel through Victoria wants bloody shooting (adopt Clough voice for the last bit).

Yes, but I can see issues with some of that:
- TB is under capacity already for the traffic it does get. Upheaval whilst the tram line is built over it and then a potential reduction in capacity after this would no doubt cause issues which wouldn't be compensated for by having trams using it. The existing river crossing was put over a relatively disused bridge presumably for that reason. And it would spoil the view of TB to put a parallel tram bridge alongside it.
- Likewise routes crossing the city where there's really only 1 or 2 alternatives need to be off-road as much as possible, but still can't really avoid the road network entirely.
- That eastern extension heads around the outside and doesn't really serve an awful lot of areas though the alternative there is not without issues. I'm also not sure how it would work with the condition of the pepperpots tunnel...