The Relegation Dogfight 25/26

[Osiris]

I believe his fallout with Nuno played a significant part in our current sorry state.

Nuno was a head coach and not a manager, he was always going to be subordinate to any higher-up EM brought in

But despite being in possession of all those facts Nuno decided to commit managerial harakiri and go all-in on the owner in his presser, knowing full well it would result in his dismissal

I can't believe you still think even for one second that Nuno didn't intentionally bring about his own sacking

That's not Edu's fault - it never has been and it never will be

 

[Apollo11]

Nuno was a head coach and not a manager, he was always going to be subordinate to any higher-up EM brought in

But despite being in possession of all those facts Nuno decided to commit managerial harakiri and go all-in on the owner in his presser, knowing full well it would result in his dismissal

I can't believe you still think even for one second that Nuno didn't intentionally bring about his own sacking

That's not Edu's fault - it never has been and it never will be

And according to reports it was Nuno that was the unreasonable aggressive one, not Edu, so the fallout seems to be instigated one way.

 

[Des's dirty Y-fronts]

28 games to go.

Some togetherness and team spirit was visible against United and Porto.

I think we're gonna be alright.

We'll finish 11th to 15th.

 

[Statto]

Yeah I've just checked, it was the 2008-09 season

They were 6th after 18 games when there form fell off a cliff and they won just one game the rest of the season, finishing 17th

They were 3rd after 9 games and stayed up by a point.

2008–09 Hull City A.F.C. season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

['mist rollin in']

Don’t think the West Ham result today is that bad. It bunches things up a bit and drags everyone into the mix. West Ham vs Burnley next week and we have Leeds, so there’s an opportunity to make some progress.

 

[football post]

Where do you think Forest will finish,Chris?

I thought 12th before we started but its probably going to be a couple of places lower now. I can see it being very tight from mid-table down to the bottom this year. We could well go into the last couple of weeks with 6 or 7 teams involved.

 

[Cloughie1975]

I thought 12th before we started but its probably going to be a couple of places lower now. I can see it being very tight from mid-table down to the bottom this year. We could well go into the last couple of weeks with 6 or 7 teams involved.

I thought 13/14th given our European involvement but I reckon that’s optimistic now.

There’s no doubt that Forest v Leeds and West Ham v Burnley next weekend are crucial games even at this stage-
if Forest and West Ham win then it’s tightening up at the bottom of the table but should Leeds and Burnley
come out on top then it would look desperate for Wolves,Forest and West Ham.

 

[weejockmcplop]

I thought 13/14th given our European involvement but I reckon that’s optimistic now.

There’s no doubt that Forest v Leeds and West Ham v Burnley next weekend are crucial games even at this stage-
if Forest and West Ham win then it’s tightening up at the bottom of the table but should Leeds and Burnley
come out on top then it would look desperate for Wolves,Forest and West Ham.

I'm sure things will change around alot in the 30 remaining games.

 

[Statto]

I'm sure things will change around alot in the 30 remaining games.

Thing is we have been held back by Nuno's behaviour and then making the appointment of Ange - whilst his attacking style might be what we all want, he was not the guy to deliver it because he wasn't willing to defend, and also, it was too much too soon in terms of change.

Ideally we should have replaced Nuno with Dyche and gone for changing the style with a preseason.

So now we have to go back to square 1 with the defence (which still had a fair amount of no clean sheets under Nuno) and see if Ange has managed to teach anything about attacking to a side who still didn't score goals under him.

The longer this takes to settle in the more people will get worried about relegation.

We do have time on our hands, and this is probably the best squad we've assembled since promotion, probably better than last season's and also, definitely better than the 2 seasons before when we stayed up, but the promoted teams do look better, and West Ham/Wolves will have had new managers this season.

Drawing on Sat didn't help us much, though there were other encouraging signs, and we did score twice which is also a good thing, especially given Utd are playing well. Their front 3 is quite good now and we restricted them to basically nothing, only a bad defensive error from a corner which shouldn't have been a corner and then a wonder strike went in.

But what we need is 2-3 straight wins or at least a run of 5-6 games which is mainly wins and draws and with perhaps no or maybe 1 defeat. But these runs don't happen in teams near the bottom because they are there as they're not playing well. And whilst you can say early season doesn't mean a lot, and that we have had managers come and go, we are about 10 matches in now.

Dyche has kept worse teams up.

 

[Cloughie1975]

Thing is we have been held back by Nuno's behaviour and then making the appointment of Ange - whilst his attacking style might be what we all want, he was not the guy to deliver it because he wasn't willing to defend, and also, it was too much too soon in terms of change.

Ideally we should have replaced Nuno with Dyche and gone for changing the style with a preseason.

So now we have to go back to square 1 with the defence (which still had a fair amount of no clean sheets under Nuno) and see if Ange has managed to teach anything about attacking to a side who still didn't score goals under him.

The longer this takes to settle in the more people will get worried about relegation.

We do have time on our hands, and this is probably the best squad we've assembled since promotion, probably better than last season's and also, definitely better than the 2 seasons before when we stayed up, but the promoted teams do look better, and West Ham/Wolves will have had new managers this season.

Drawing on Sat didn't help us much, though there were other encouraging signs, and we did score twice which is also a good thing, especially given Utd are playing well. Their front 3 is quite good now and we restricted them to basically nothing, only a bad defensive error from a corner which shouldn't have been a corner and then a wonder strike went in.

But what we need is 2-3 straight wins or at least a run of 5-6 games which is mainly wins and draws and with perhaps no or maybe 1 defeat. But these runs don't happen in teams near the bottom because they are there as they're not playing well. And whilst you can say early season doesn't mean a lot, and that we have had managers come and go, we are about 10 matches in now.

Dyche has kept worse teams up.

I agree with nearly all of that,Statto-although I think the point on Saturday was helpful but only if we follow that up
with a win against Leeds on Sunday (the 2nd half performance must have lifted confidence).

I would certainly have taken 4 points from Manchester United and Leeds if offered last Saturday morning.

 

[weejockmcplop]

Thing is we have been held back by Nuno's behaviour and then making the appointment of Ange - whilst his attacking style might be what we all want, he was not the guy to deliver it because he wasn't willing to defend, and also, it was too much too soon in terms of change.

Ideally we should have replaced Nuno with Dyche and gone for changing the style with a preseason.

So now we have to go back to square 1 with the defence (which still had a fair amount of no clean sheets under Nuno) and see if Ange has managed to teach anything about attacking to a side who still didn't score goals under him.

The longer this takes to settle in the more people will get worried about relegation.

We do have time on our hands, and this is probably the best squad we've assembled since promotion, probably better than last season's and also, definitely better than the 2 seasons before when we stayed up, but the promoted teams do look better, and West Ham/Wolves will have had new managers this season.

Drawing on Sat didn't help us much, though there were other encouraging signs, and we did score twice which is also a good thing, especially given Utd are playing well. Their front 3 is quite good now and we restricted them to basically nothing, only a bad defensive error from a corner which shouldn't have been a corner and then a wonder strike went in.

But what we need is 2-3 straight wins or at least a run of 5-6 games which is mainly wins and draws and with perhaps no or maybe 1 defeat. But these runs don't happen in teams near the bottom because they are there as they're not playing well. And whilst you can say early season doesn't mean a lot, and that we have had managers come and go, we are about 10 matches in now.

Dyche has kept worse teams up.

There's a big pack of teams above us on 10-11 points, once (if) we catch those guys I'll be much less worried.

 

[whitman1]

Selling Elanga and buying a series of players who were unsuited to Nuno's style while not providing cover at full back early enough were all on Edu as head of recruitment. And for all the criticism of Traore he would have allowed us to continue in the low block style even as a plan B

 

[tricky_tree1982]

The thing is, we can play low block with pacey wingers. Unfortunately Bakwa is injured, And for all those saying our summer recruitment was shit, we've hardly seen any of them play! The longer they don't get any minutes in the legs, the worse those players will get due to lack of match minutes! I mean take McAtee for example, apart from playing vs Sunderland where he wasn't very good, he'd had hardly any minutes! He's a good player, but we'll make him worse at the moment.

 

[Cloughie1975]

There's a big pack of teams above us on 10-11 points, once (if) we catch those guys I'll be much less worried.

That’s true but we are already 5 points from safety if you consider our poor goal difference.

It’s still catchable but a significant upturn in results is needed imminently-that’s why the November home games
against Leeds and Brighton are so crucial (especially as we face a trip to Liverpool in between).

Should we fail to close the gap by the end of November (or it increases) then the writing may well be on the wall
with 3 of the following 4 games away from home and a difficult home fixture against Tottenham thrown in for good measure.

 

[Cloughie1975]

The thing is, we can play low block with pacey wingers. Unfortunately Bakwa is injured, And for all those saying our summer recruitment was shit, we've hardly seen any of them play! The longer they don't get any minutes in the legs, the worse those players will get due to lack of match minutes! I mean take McAtee for example, apart from playing vs Sunderland where he wasn't very good, he'd had hardly any minutes! He's a good player, but we'll make him worse at the moment.

Part of the reason why they need to see some action in European games.

 

[weejockmcplop]

That’s true but we are already 5 points from safety if you consider our poor goal difference.

It’s still catchable but a significant upturn in results is needed imminently-that’s why the November home games
against Leeds and Brighton are so crucial (especially as we face a trip to Liverpool in between).

Should we fail to close the gap by the end of November (or it increases) then the writing may well be on the wall
with 3 of the following 4 games away from home and a difficult home fixture against Tottenham thrown in for good measure.

We don't need to panic with this many games left.
Things will change, and there's some likelihood that none of the teams currently in the bottom 3 will be there at the end of the season.
We have a big squad with a fair amount of quality all the way through it, so I'd expect our results to improve relative to the teams around us between now and the end of the season.

 

[bearwood red]

We are not going to get ourselves clear of trouble in the next couple of months. This season will be a grind right through until April/May I suspect.

There are 5 teams within 5 points of us. Even allowing for goal difference, we only need to be 6 points better than 2 of those 5 teams over 28 games. With our squad and manager, that is perfectly possible.

Last year our lack of depth caught up with us towards the end. This season, when others falter, players like Bakwa, McAtee, Hutchinson, Kalimuemdo, Jair could make all the difference with fresh legs and minds and points to prove.

I know it’s a cliche, but this season more than any, it will be a marathon not a sprint.

 

[valspoodle]

I'm another who thinks there are just too many people involved in the recruitment process. There just needs to be one person plus the chief coach and his staff.

The coach decides who he wants and one person's job is to arrange that transfer. Of course we need the scouts and people in the club to sort the paperwork, but the scouts are probably freelance and the people in the club sorting the paperwork sort that out for everybody at the club, not just the players.

 

[FLC]

In the Athletic under the heading How True is the Premier League Table:
“What with little old Bournemouth in fourth, the aforementioned Spurs in fifth but not happy about how they got there and Forest in 18th but pretty happy and optimistic about their future under Sean Dyche, it’s all a bit lopsided.”

 

[Project Zeus]

I'll feel a lot more confident once we get that first win post-Nuno meltdown under our belts. It's been nearly three months!

 

[floridatricky]

The thing is, we can play low block with pacey wingers. Unfortunately Bakwa is injured, And for all those saying our summer recruitment was shit, we've hardly seen any of them play! The longer they don't get any minutes in the legs, the worse those players will get due to lack of match minutes! I mean take McAtee for example, apart from playing vs Sunderland where he wasn't very good, he'd had hardly any minutes! He's a good player, but we'll make him worse at the moment.

Thats kind of the point though, if they where good enough or up to speed 3 different managers wouldn't have ignored them. The position we were in we should have been buying players to be first choice, we didn't we spent £200m and we've basically got 2.5 new first teamers at best. And Jesus is a stretch because Wood would be first choice. All we really got was Ndoye and an unfit Douglas Luiz.

 

[Templeton]

There's a bit of a gap above us, but then a load of teams in the 12-14 point range. Huge game for us against Leeds next week, win that and we suddenly are within distance of the entire bottom half of the league.

I saw enough spirit and battling in that second half to feel we have enough to be towards midtable by the end of the season. Start picking up a few results here and there and the players rock bottom confidence after everything that has gone off will start to get a boost, and then the players quality will start to show.

 

[weejockmcplop]

Thats kind of the point though, if they where good enough or up to speed 3 different managers wouldn't have ignored them. The position we were in we should have been buying players to be first choice, we didn't we spent £200m and we've basically got 2.5 new first teamers at best. And Jesus is a stretch because Wood would be first choice. All we really got was Ndoye and an unfit Douglas Luiz.

I think we'll find them extremely useful later in the season when injuries start hitting everyone.

 

[Ripple]

There's a bit of a gap above us, but then a load of teams in the 12-14 point range. Huge game for us against Leeds next week, win that and we suddenly are within distance of the entire bottom half of the league.

I saw enough spirit and battling in that second half to feel we have enough to be towards midtable by the end of the season. Start picking up a few results here and there and the players rock bottom confidence after everything that has gone off will start to get a boost, and then the players quality will start to show.

Yeah. I feel that our depth of quality over what is going to feel like a long season will play a huge factor over some of the other teams around us. As you quite rightly stated, the desire is there as well and Dyche and his team will ensure that stays there. They are of course infinitely aware of the weaknesses and will work night and day to sort those out. 12th - 16th is what I have stated before and I think that's perfectly manageable.

 

[Captain Sinister]

There's a bit of a gap above us, but then a load of teams in the 12-14 point range. Huge game for us against Leeds next week, win that and we suddenly are within distance of the entire bottom half of the league.

I saw enough spirit and battling in that second half to feel we have enough to be towards midtable by the end of the season. Start picking up a few results here and there and the players rock bottom confidence after everything that has gone off will start to get a boost, and then the players quality will start to show.

The win against Leeds, assuming it happens, will not lift us out of the bottom 3.
It might not even lift us out of the bottom 2.
With West Ham playing at home against Burnley next Saturday, Nuno's lot could move out of the bottom 3 on goal difference.
Burnley are on -7, and West Ham are on -11.
A 3 goal winning margin for the Hammers will do it, and with 2 wins on the bounce Nuno will be already taking West Ham away from immediate danger and restoring confidence.
Hopefully a draw will be the outcome of that one.
Being stuck in the bottom 3 is a real kedge-anchor for any team once a gap in points opens up.
The team know that even if they play their best and win, they are still in the bottom 3... it drags on the spirits.