Loughborough_red
Jack Armstrong
Did you speak to my mate Simon who runs the museum? I showed him this thread in the summer and he is keen to use some of the brilliant research that you have compiled.
The Forest History Thread - sponsored by I‘m Red Till Dead
- Thread starter I'm Red Till Dead
- Start date
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
I did. He invited me over for a chat and a look at the museum, which would have been nice, but living out on the East Coast and not having transport the logistics are a bit difficult so we spoke on the phone. He seems a nice guy.
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
I was just looking at the snip above and think it probably says "All 5s. tickets sold."
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
On the Forza site it says the book has been released Trailblazers: The Groundbreaking History of Nottingham Forest. It doesn't give his name though.
Edit: Just did a Google search, it's Matthew Oldroyd.
Edit: Just did a Google search, it's Matthew Oldroyd.
Ian Moore Gone Little
Viv Anderson
I’m currently reading it and it’s very good. A lot of research has gone into it and even as a long-time accumulator of Forest books I’m coming across things I haven’t seen elsewhere. It’s more thematic than chronological, but covers a lot of ground and emphasises what an important role Forest have played in the development of football throughout our long history.
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
Hi, The new versions of the scrapbooks are now available. You should be able to access them in the usual way and today's date apears on the front so you can double check you are seeing the latest ones.
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I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
The following is an extract of the Forest v. Burnley game September 16, 1893 at the Town Ground. It starts with Forest 4-0 up and conceding a corner. The Burnley keeper, Hillman, didn't take what happened next too well. 
(Football News, Saturday, September 16, 1893)
The game was now entirely in the hands of the home players, who were showing something of the form they exhibited against the "Wolves..."
...Allsopp met the ball and saved at the expense of a corner. This was soon worked away, and the ball travelled to Shaw, who again darted round the defenders. This time the centre was met by Collins, who lost no time in popping in past Hillman. An appeal was made by the goalkeeper, and on Mr. Tillotson ignoring it, the custodian picked the ball up and landed it right over the stand. It was some time before it was returned, and as soon as it dropped over again Hillman, for the second time kicked the ball out of the ground. This strange conduct aroused the ire of spectators, and there were loud shouts of “Turn him off.” Mr Tillotson did not do this but he gave the custodian a caution, and when the ball came into the field again, Nicol picked it up and sent it into the centre. Thus ended a strange and inexplicable scene. Burnley started the game again in the worst of tempers, but the Foresters, taking the well-meant advice of numerous spectators, contented themselves with playing the game, and this they continued to do with success, easily keeping their opponents at bay. McCallum made one more effort, but his shot went wide, and as soon as the ball had been kicked into the centre the whistle went for the last time, with the score:
Forest 5
Burnley 0
Note to the mods: Given that the thread now covers the whole of the club's history, rather than just the early stuff, would a title of "The Forest History Thread," or similar, be more appropriate?
(Football News, Saturday, September 16, 1893)
The game was now entirely in the hands of the home players, who were showing something of the form they exhibited against the "Wolves..."
...Allsopp met the ball and saved at the expense of a corner. This was soon worked away, and the ball travelled to Shaw, who again darted round the defenders. This time the centre was met by Collins, who lost no time in popping in past Hillman. An appeal was made by the goalkeeper, and on Mr. Tillotson ignoring it, the custodian picked the ball up and landed it right over the stand. It was some time before it was returned, and as soon as it dropped over again Hillman, for the second time kicked the ball out of the ground. This strange conduct aroused the ire of spectators, and there were loud shouts of “Turn him off.” Mr Tillotson did not do this but he gave the custodian a caution, and when the ball came into the field again, Nicol picked it up and sent it into the centre. Thus ended a strange and inexplicable scene. Burnley started the game again in the worst of tempers, but the Foresters, taking the well-meant advice of numerous spectators, contented themselves with playing the game, and this they continued to do with success, easily keeping their opponents at bay. McCallum made one more effort, but his shot went wide, and as soon as the ball had been kicked into the centre the whistle went for the last time, with the score:
Forest 5
Burnley 0
Note to the mods: Given that the thread now covers the whole of the club's history, rather than just the early stuff, would a title of "The Forest History Thread," or similar, be more appropriate?
Yes, you know, I rather think it would?
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
Thanks.
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
Another snippet of a match report form 1893. Forest are at home to West Brom in the dying seconds of the game and lead by 2 goals to one
So Forest were subjected to bad refereeing (I don't think it was standard then to add time on for injuriues) and collapsed in time added on - two very Forest things to happen.
(Football News, Saturday, September 30, 1893)
Time was now rapidly drawing near, and the "Throstles” put on a big spurt. Bassett, in particular, was wild and white with excitement, and when he got near the ball he was on it like a terrier. Just as everyone was expecting to hear the referee's whistle go for the last time the visiting forwards with a rush carried the ball in front of the Forest goal where it was fouled. At this point, so close was it to time, that the spectators half expected to see the Albion men deprived of their last chance of equalising. But the referee made no sign, or rather his whistle made no sound, and McLeod again took the kick, touching the ball wide and then landing it under the crossbar with a second kick. “Time” shouted the spectators from all sides, but Mr. Ashmole walked calmly up the field, and the game went on. West Bromwich were to have another chance, and they availed themselves of it to the full. Amid the yells of the spectators who recognised the possibility of the Albion being allowed to win the match after the time had expired the visiting front rank made a rough and tumble dash for the Forest goal, and this time Bassett scored with a good shot, thus giving the visitors a lead of a goal. For a moment the spectators seemed staggered to think that the match should have been won under such circumstances, and when it was seen that the referee was actually allowing the game to proceed again, what little patience was left went with a vengeance and before the ball had been kicked twice, the crowd was swarming over the ground. Promptly recognising the danger of the situation, Mr. Holbrook, Mr. Radford, and a few other officials rushed on the field and before the crowd could get to the referee they formed a cordon round him without any difficulty, for the only desire of the spectators had been to put an end to what had developed into a farce, Mr. Ashmole, pale and affrighted, was led off the ground. For a few minutes the situation had in it all the elements of a sanguinary row, but beyond a few vigorous altercations between indignant Foresters and excited Albionites there was no disturbance, to the great credit of the supporters of the home club, who had, it must be admitted, great provocation to contend against. There seemed a perfectly unanimous opinion that allowing for the time when Crone was injured, the referee had allowed the match to continue seven minutes after the stated time, and it was during this period that the game was not only equalised, but won. Some minutes before the crowd took it upon themselves to put an end to the match, there was a general comparing of watches. and one of the spectators who emphatically agreed that the time had been exceeded was a sergeant of police. Absolute as is the modern referee, and difficult and disagreeable ar it is to challenge his word, it will be a matter of surprise to the great body of spectators present on the Town Ground if a protest against Mr. Ashmole's, conduct is not upheld.
That there is every prospect of the protest being successful may be gathered from the fact that when the excitement had subsided the referee frankly admitted to the Forest officials that he had made an unfortunate mistake. Mr. Ashmole did more than this, he expressed the hope that the match would be replayed or awarded to the Forest, seeing that, the last two goals were scored after the time had elapsed. The conduct of the spectators will of course be reported to the Association but Mr. Ashmole will, we believe, be the first to admit the provocation and the fact that he was readily protected from insult by the Forest officials and players. The incident is greatly to be regretted but taking into consideration the whole circumstances the Forest officials have not much cause for anxiety.
That there is every prospect of the protest being successful may be gathered from the fact that when the excitement had subsided the referee frankly admitted to the Forest officials that he had made an unfortunate mistake. Mr. Ashmole did more than this, he expressed the hope that the match would be replayed or awarded to the Forest, seeing that, the last two goals were scored after the time had elapsed. The conduct of the spectators will of course be reported to the Association but Mr. Ashmole will, we believe, be the first to admit the provocation and the fact that he was readily protected from insult by the Forest officials and players. The incident is greatly to be regretted but taking into consideration the whole circumstances the Forest officials have not much cause for anxiety.
So Forest were subjected to bad refereeing (I don't think it was standard then to add time on for injuriues) and collapsed in time added on - two very Forest things to happen.
Was the game awarded to Forest, or replayed, of course it wasn't and also looking at the reports from a meeting of the League we were issued with a warning over the pitch invasion and had to pay West Broms costs for attending -
(Nottinghamshire Guardian, Saturday, October 21, 1893)
The report of Mr. T. S. Ashmole. the referee-in the recent League match between Notts. Forest and West Bromwich Albion, at Nottingham, was. considered. Various witnesses were examined at great at length. It was decided to notify the Notts. Forest Club that they must display the usual notice with regard to the behaviour of the spectators, and that if this was not done, disqualification would probably ensue The Forest were also ordered to pay the Albion s expenses to the meeting.
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
I anyone would like to do the equivalent of buying me a drink to say thanks for the history I've posted on here or in the scrapbooks, if you have access, then please feel free to donate to the cost of my friend so she can get out to Africa later this year to do some voluntary work.
Every little will help her get there to do some good work with the women and children.
See this thread for more details - https://www.forestforum.co.uk/index...et-to-africa-to-do-some-voluntary-work.53329/
Every little will help her get there to do some good work with the women and children.
See this thread for more details - https://www.forestforum.co.uk/index...et-to-africa-to-do-some-voluntary-work.53329/
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
If anyone thinks that Forest questioning referee's decisions and other things that affect us adversely is a new thing under Marinakis, think again. As far back as our second season in the Football League we were appealing to the Football League to get a win for West Brom reversed due to a Referee timing error (see below). There are earlier instances too of us appealing results of FA cup games too.
A special meeting of the League Management Committee was held at the Midland Hotel, Derby, Wednesday, and the proceedings, which were of a very important character, lasted for fully ten hours, and even then the whole, of the business was not gone into. The most important matter, locally, was the appeal by Notts. Forest against their match being awarded to West Bromwich Albion, on the ground that the referee, Mr. T. S. Ashmole, of Leicester, allowed the game to proceed longer than the time stipulated in the rules. Mr. J. I. Bentley presided, and the others present were - Messrs. E. Browne, L. Ford, R. Mollineaux, J. Parlby, J. Starling, and H. Lockett (secretary).
The first matter brought forward were charges by Darwen…
The next matter considered was the objection by Notts. Forest, and this occupied a considerable time. The Forest case was ably conducted by their secretary, Mr. H. S. Radford, and Mr. Jackson, who acted as linesman for West Bromwich Albion in the disputed match, appeared on their behalf, Mr. L Ford, the Albion secretary, being a member of the Management Committee. Mr. Radford's contention was that in the match the referee allowed the game to proceed seven minutes over time, during which the Albion scored a couple of goals, which turned defeat into victory. Mr. Ashmole, the referee, reported to the League as follows:-
Gentlemen, - l have to report for your information the following:- The game in the first half passed off all right, half-time score being Forest 2, Albion nil. On resuming, and after play had been in progress some time, a shot at goal was made by the Albion left wing. This was fisted away by one of the Forest players (not the goalkeeper). As in my opinion it was deliberately handled, I gave a penalty kick, the . result being a goal. Some time after this there was another foul near goal by one of the Forest men, when I gave a free kick. The result was a second goal to Albion. It still wanted some minutes to time, and within this period Bassett scored. I then walked to the centre of the around in order to resume the game, but before any play could take place the crowd (from the opposite side to the stand) encroached on to the field of play, and I have every reason to believe I should have been roughly handled had it not been for the prompt manner in which the Forest Club officials came to my assistance. I went into the secretaries office, when Mr. Radford intimated that he wished to lodge a protest against the match being awarded to West Bromwich, alleging that the last two goals scored by the latter were added after the proper time had expired. With reference to this I may say by my watch (which is the same I have always used) the game commenced at 2.48 p.m. I called half-time at 3.33 p.m., resumed at 3.42 (and in this half 2½ minutes was allowed for an accident to one of the Albion players), at 4.25 spectators, as before stated, invaded the field if play, and prevented further football taking place. – I am, yours faithfully, Thos. S. Ashmole.
The League at the outset decided that they could not hear any evidence as to the time played, and they took the referee's statement as final on that point. In support of their position they quoted the precedent established on November 4th, when Blackburn Rovers made an appeal against a match being awarded to Preston North End on the ground that full time had not been played. Mr. Radford argued that the Blackburn-Preston case did not apply to this, and the committee, whilst against him on this point, decided to hear any evidence as to the statements made after the match by Mr. Ashmole. Mr. W. Proctor, the secretary of the Notts. Football Association, attended in person, in addition to sending the following report to the League:-
7, Curzon-street, Nottingham, October 2nd, 1893
To the Secretary of the Football League.
Dear sir, - l was present on Saturday last on the Town Ground at the League match, Notts. Forest v. West Bromwich Albion, and at the conclusion of the match Mr. Ashmole, the referee, came up to me and asked me if I had timed the match. I stated "Yes," and that he had allowed the match to continue 7½ minutes beyond the 45 minutes in the second half, but allowing three minutes for a stoppage on account of one of the Albion players being injured, the actual time played in the second half was 50½ minutes, and two of the goals scored by the Albion were scored during the last three minutes of the game, so that had time been called at the right moment the home team would have won by two goals to one.
It is at Mr. Ashmole's request that I forward you these particulars. - Yours faithfully,
W. Proctor, Hon. Secretary.
Notts. Football Association
Mr. Proctor now detailed the conversation took place between Mr. Ashmole and himself, and evidence was also given by Mr. Holbrook, a member of the Forest Committee, to the effect that Mr. Ashmole admitted making a mistake. Letters and an affidavit from other gentlemen were also put in, but the referee positively affirmed that the correct time was not exceeded, and that he confirmed his watch at the station after the match. The committee, after consideration, then declined to interfere in the matter, and the match stands as a win for the Albion...
Notes: It’s interesting to note that in an article on the pioneers of the Leicester Fosse (later City), The Athletic, dated May 04, 1908, described him thus - Thomas Ashmole (the referee whose watch, stopped in a First League match at Nottingham).
(Nottinghamshire Guardian, Saturday, October 14, 1893)
MEETING OF THE LEAGUE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE.
THE NOTTS. FOREST PROTEST.
MEETING OF THE LEAGUE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE.
THE NOTTS. FOREST PROTEST.
A special meeting of the League Management Committee was held at the Midland Hotel, Derby, Wednesday, and the proceedings, which were of a very important character, lasted for fully ten hours, and even then the whole, of the business was not gone into. The most important matter, locally, was the appeal by Notts. Forest against their match being awarded to West Bromwich Albion, on the ground that the referee, Mr. T. S. Ashmole, of Leicester, allowed the game to proceed longer than the time stipulated in the rules. Mr. J. I. Bentley presided, and the others present were - Messrs. E. Browne, L. Ford, R. Mollineaux, J. Parlby, J. Starling, and H. Lockett (secretary).
The first matter brought forward were charges by Darwen…
The next matter considered was the objection by Notts. Forest, and this occupied a considerable time. The Forest case was ably conducted by their secretary, Mr. H. S. Radford, and Mr. Jackson, who acted as linesman for West Bromwich Albion in the disputed match, appeared on their behalf, Mr. L Ford, the Albion secretary, being a member of the Management Committee. Mr. Radford's contention was that in the match the referee allowed the game to proceed seven minutes over time, during which the Albion scored a couple of goals, which turned defeat into victory. Mr. Ashmole, the referee, reported to the League as follows:-
Gentlemen, - l have to report for your information the following:- The game in the first half passed off all right, half-time score being Forest 2, Albion nil. On resuming, and after play had been in progress some time, a shot at goal was made by the Albion left wing. This was fisted away by one of the Forest players (not the goalkeeper). As in my opinion it was deliberately handled, I gave a penalty kick, the . result being a goal. Some time after this there was another foul near goal by one of the Forest men, when I gave a free kick. The result was a second goal to Albion. It still wanted some minutes to time, and within this period Bassett scored. I then walked to the centre of the around in order to resume the game, but before any play could take place the crowd (from the opposite side to the stand) encroached on to the field of play, and I have every reason to believe I should have been roughly handled had it not been for the prompt manner in which the Forest Club officials came to my assistance. I went into the secretaries office, when Mr. Radford intimated that he wished to lodge a protest against the match being awarded to West Bromwich, alleging that the last two goals scored by the latter were added after the proper time had expired. With reference to this I may say by my watch (which is the same I have always used) the game commenced at 2.48 p.m. I called half-time at 3.33 p.m., resumed at 3.42 (and in this half 2½ minutes was allowed for an accident to one of the Albion players), at 4.25 spectators, as before stated, invaded the field if play, and prevented further football taking place. – I am, yours faithfully, Thos. S. Ashmole.
The League at the outset decided that they could not hear any evidence as to the time played, and they took the referee's statement as final on that point. In support of their position they quoted the precedent established on November 4th, when Blackburn Rovers made an appeal against a match being awarded to Preston North End on the ground that full time had not been played. Mr. Radford argued that the Blackburn-Preston case did not apply to this, and the committee, whilst against him on this point, decided to hear any evidence as to the statements made after the match by Mr. Ashmole. Mr. W. Proctor, the secretary of the Notts. Football Association, attended in person, in addition to sending the following report to the League:-
7, Curzon-street, Nottingham, October 2nd, 1893
To the Secretary of the Football League.
Dear sir, - l was present on Saturday last on the Town Ground at the League match, Notts. Forest v. West Bromwich Albion, and at the conclusion of the match Mr. Ashmole, the referee, came up to me and asked me if I had timed the match. I stated "Yes," and that he had allowed the match to continue 7½ minutes beyond the 45 minutes in the second half, but allowing three minutes for a stoppage on account of one of the Albion players being injured, the actual time played in the second half was 50½ minutes, and two of the goals scored by the Albion were scored during the last three minutes of the game, so that had time been called at the right moment the home team would have won by two goals to one.
It is at Mr. Ashmole's request that I forward you these particulars. - Yours faithfully,
W. Proctor, Hon. Secretary.
Notts. Football Association
Mr. Proctor now detailed the conversation took place between Mr. Ashmole and himself, and evidence was also given by Mr. Holbrook, a member of the Forest Committee, to the effect that Mr. Ashmole admitted making a mistake. Letters and an affidavit from other gentlemen were also put in, but the referee positively affirmed that the correct time was not exceeded, and that he confirmed his watch at the station after the match. The committee, after consideration, then declined to interfere in the matter, and the match stands as a win for the Albion...
Notes: It’s interesting to note that in an article on the pioneers of the Leicester Fosse (later City), The Athletic, dated May 04, 1908, described him thus - Thomas Ashmole (the referee whose watch, stopped in a First League match at Nottingham).
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I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
(Nottingham Journal, Friday, November 25, 1938)
Football Memories
Foresters of 50 Years Ago Look Back on Good Old Days
Football Memories
Foresters of 50 Years Ago Look Back on Good Old Days
THE fortunes of the Nottingham Forest Football Club are a subject of absorbing interest to all and sundry who have any hereditary connection with Nottinghamshire, but to about a dozen men they have a warmer significance.
At a function unique in the sporting history of Notts last night, seven members of the Nottingham Forest team of 50 years ago gathered to reminisce on the good old days when football was played for its own sake alone.
These grand old men of football all over 70 - met at the Constitutional Club, Nottingham, at the invitation Mr. C. W. Gowthorpe.
They were Mr. George Tutin, Mr. J. Rawson, Dr Tinsley Lindley, Mr. H. W. Davis, Mr. E. J. Leighton and Mr. H. Cox.
They are all names which scintillate in the annals Nottingham sport and some of than are pegs on which to hang stories of Nottingham’s proud record in the sporting world.
TREASURER ATTACKED
These stories were rife last night. Countless matters which are the subject of argument and petty controversy between supporters less conversant, could have been settled by a query among these stalwarts who ran carry their minds back over halt a century of Nottingham football.
“That would be in ‘77, but do you remember in ‘98 when…
In that strain it went on.
The meal was secondary, to the joy of plunging into the treasure house of recollections and returning to compare the glories of the past with contemporary performances. .
Mr. Harry Cox set the ball rolling when he recalled an occasion in the ‘90’s when the team were engaged in a match on the old Town Ground near Trent Bridge.
Mr. Cox - so he related - happened to go to the back of the pavilion and there beheld the spectacle of the club treasurer prostrate with two bullies astride him and intent on acquiring the bag containing the day’s “gate” receipts. On the alarm being raised they made off minus tile bag.
SEARCH FOR A FUNERAL
Then there was that famous occasion 1885 when the Forest replayed the Cup Semi-final with Queen’s Park at Edinburgh.
A certain member of the Forest team at that time who was somewhat superstitious thought It a certainty the team would win if they saw a funeral before the match. The match was about to begin and the eleventh player was absent. In the fever of anxiety which increased the kick-off grew nearer, the missing player appeared somewhat out breath but full of enthusiasm and satisfaction. He had just sufficient breath that had he had toured the whole of Edinburgh before hitting on a funeral.
Labour In vain - the match alas, was lost 3-0.
Two of the team who were playing on that occasion were present last night - Mr. Tinsley Lindley and Mr. Leighton.
So it went on, and in the time they revelled in each other's company, the years fell away like the veil from an intriguing picture.
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
(Nottingham Evening Post, Friday, September 20, 1991)
‘Forest held to ransom’
Club rocked by rent rise storm
‘Forest held to ransom’
Club rocked by rent rise storm
NOTTINGHAM Forest Football Club claim they are being held to ransom over proposed multi-million improvements at the City Ground.
Forest want to upgrade their stadium in a £12m all-seater scheme to rank among Europe and the world’s best.
But Nottingham City Council, who lease the City Ground land to the club are asking them for £150,000 a year.
That represents a staggering 20,000% rent increase.
The row centres on a small area of about 1000 square yards behind the Trent End which the club needs for its development.
The city council want to use the request for the land to re-negotiate the club’s lease which still has 22 years to run.
The £750 a year rent terms were agreed in 1964 when Forest were a struggling Second Division club for a term of 50 years.
But city Conservatives believe the council is trying to force Forest into a proposed super-stadium to be shared with Notts County on the former Wilford Power Station site.
Club chairman Maurice Roworth said: "We are being held to ransom over a piece of unused unprofitable land because of the success Nottingham Forest has enjoyed both in playing football and in realising financial rewards for the city.
“I speak with the full backing of my board of directors when I say that we are saddened that we are being treated like this after proposing to provide, at no cost to the city council, a ground which is going to be a credit to the city and is already being looked at as a model for other football clubs to follow.”
The Evening Post has learned that the city council wants to increase the club’s rent from the current £750 a year to a minimum of £150,000.
Sources close to the football club have said that a suggestion to double the proposed new rent to £300,000 was also made in negotiations between council officers and club officials.
The club believes it has been more than generous at the centre of offering to pay £10,000 a year for the lease of the extra land to be reviewed after five years.
But city officers are advising councillors to reject the offer at a meeting of the land subcommittee on Monday.
Sub-committee chairman Coun John Taylor says he stands by the decision and he denied it was an attempt to squeeze Forest into a super stadium deal.
“We are simply following the law and the Audit Commission’s advice to local government which is to get the best consideration for any land that we sell or lease,” he said.
“We have doubled the city racecourse’s rent and done the same to other organisations where it was necessary and their leases needed updating. “
Because Forest’s still has some years to go we decided to take this opportunity to bring their lease up to date.
“They have 11 acres of extremely valuable land which they are paying £750 for. If it was industrial or housing land they could be paying as much as £200,000 or £300,000 an acre for it.
“The Audit Commission says that we should charge full commercial rents for properties and not carry hidden subsidies in those rents.
“If another committee wants to subsidise the club that is up to them.”
The club had hoped to begin work on phase one of their development last week and complete all improvements in time for possible European football action in the winter of 1992/93.
But Mr Roworth said the city council's delay is putting work back.
Outraged
The city council’s offer so outraged Forest that the club’s vice-chairman, Jimmy Pell, sent a letter explaining the club’s position to every member of the land subcommittee.
In the letter Mr Pell says: “I believe it is recognised by the council’s officers that this stance represents an attempt to use the relatively small area of land in question, which is without development potential for other purposes, as a ransom strip.”
He also says that if the extra land cannot be acquired then Forest will consider an alternative development “within the existing confines of the ground.”
Mr Roworth added today: “We are attempting to comply with the findings of Lord Justice Taylor’s report.
“We want an all-seater stadium with improved safety and multi-purpose ground-level facilities.
“We are not increasing capacity we are only trying to maintain it.
“The argument seems to be that we’re going to make money out of the development. But we are not a normal profitmaking organisation.
“Any profit made by Forest goes back into the club to improve and enhance facilities for spectators, the ground and to strengthen the playing squad.
“We’re not asking the council for a penny. The millions of pounds for the new stands at the Bridgford Road end and the Trent End are coming out of the club’s purse and available grants.
“At no stage have we looked to the city council for financial support even when we were heavily committed to providing the existing executive stand.
“We have always worked closely with the city council in terms of attracting European and overseas connections in trade and have always been available to assist in tourism and promotional work.
“The area of land which we are asking to acquire has no use value to any other person.
“Having taken chartered surveyors’ advice the amount being offered by the club is certainly not unreasonable considering that the land itself has not generated any income for the last 50 years.
“What we are looking for from the city council is co-operation but not at an unreasonable premium.”
The leader of the Tories on Nottingham City Council, Coun Bill Bradbury, said: “What is being done to the club is despicable.
“I think it represents an attempt to persuade Forest to move to a totally new site against their will.
“Forest simply want to lease an extra small piece of land for their development. There’s no need for them to have to renegotiate the whole lease.”
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
(Nottingham Evening Post, Friday, September 20, 1991)
POST COMMENT
Forest and that rent
POST COMMENT
Forest and that rent
NO MATTER what Nottingham City Council and its deputy leader Coun John Taylor say they will not be able to prevent enormous public scepticism over the 20,000 per cent rent increase they are slapping on Nottingham Forest.
How can they - when it comes right in the middle of the row over Forest's point blank refusal to consider moving from the City Ground, for which it has been paying a concessionary rent, to a proposed new super stadium to be shared with Notts County?
In the minds of the Forest board there is no doubt that they are being forced to pay a "ransom."
And Tory leader Coun Bill Bradbury is similarly convinced - he's calling the city council's move "despicable."
There are many strong arguments in favour of the shared super stadium proposals - particularly in the really long term - but the fact is that Forest have given it an emphatic thumbs down which they are entitled to do and without them it is a non-starter.
Notts County have recognised that, stated publicly that they accept Forest's reasons (even suggesting that if the roles had been reversed they might well have taken the same stance) and are now pressing on with their own ground improvement plans at Meadow Lane.
So it's looking as near as it's possible to get to a dead duck.
OPPORTUNE
Coun Taylor's response to criticism of the council's latest move sounds plausible.
He says Forest's own ground development plans which necessitate the acquisition of a comparatively tiny strip of 1000 square yards of land behind the Trent End, make it an opportune time to review the club's lease.
And he points to the council's obligation to satisfy the Audit Commission's insistence that it charges full commercial rents for properties without hidden subsidies.
It's true that £750 a year sounds like a ludicrously low rent for a club which has just splashed out close on £5 million for new players and plans to spend another £12 million on improving its stadium.
But that needs to be viewed in its proper perspective.
The City Ground is not factory.
Effectively all the club is paying the council rent for is a playing field at West Bridgford.
All the facilities all the buildings around that playing field, are not and never have been in the moral or legal "ownership" of the council. They belong to the club. They have not cost the council one single penny piece.
The present lease was negotiated when Forest were a struggling Second Division club.
Then along came Brian Clough and rest is history.
But there is no guarantee whatsoever that the extraordinary success achieved by Forest will be maintained indefinitely.
Having due regard to that, and recognising (as the council surely must) the tremendous community benefits associated with successful football teams, the club's offer of £10,000 a year in rent, reviewable every five years looks perfectly reasonable and acceptable.
We reckon nine out of ten local authorities would settle for that and we believe that presented in the right way the Audit Commission would accept it too.
There is a precedent in Nottingham.
As recently as March this year the same city council took all "community use" buildings out of the land holdings account, fixed a concessionary rent of £10 a year and recorded that what they were doing was against the preference of the Audit Commission.
SATISFACTION
Of course the City Ground can't be compared with a little old folk's club meeting once a week in some tiny hall but while the football club operates as a commercial concern all their profits are ploughed back into keeping Forest at the top - to the great satisfaction of their thousands of supporters and to the benefit of the city as a whole.
There seems little doubt that a reasonable case could have been made to satisfy the Audit Commission in Forest's case.
So what's the council up to?
If Coun Taylor and Co really do believe that by stinging the club with a huge rent increase they will bring about a change of attitude at Forest towards the super stadium proposal they are being incredibly naïve.
If that really is the thinking it seriously misjudges the people with whom they are dealing…
Not least the bloke who sits in the manager's office!
Ian Moore Gone Little
Viv Anderson
Not like the NEP to get something wrong, but did nobody there know which division we were in in 1964?
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
Well spotted. I missed that. I was too busy checking names and indexing. The Post did actually have that quote, I didn't mistype it.
Caveman Ninja
Fucjin g wot karate
Sounds like Thomas Ashhole might have been a more appropriate name.
Bing Crosby's Head
Geoff Thomas
If only that had been true and we didn't end up taking a council backed loan for the Trent End development!
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
For those who have access, there are new versions of my Scrapbooks available online. The links you have should allow you access.
You can verify that they are the latest versions as they will have an upload date of 29.10.2025 on the cover.
The majority of the new additions refer to the match reports for the 1893-4 and 2017-18 seasons, plus the summer player movements, but there is a smattering of other stuff in them too.
The release has reached a landmark 5,000 pages (including the index). I never expected to collate this many reports when I started this back in 2015 after Psycho's sacking. Who would have thought then that we would average about a manager a season in the years that followed?
You can verify that they are the latest versions as they will have an upload date of 29.10.2025 on the cover.
The majority of the new additions refer to the match reports for the 1893-4 and 2017-18 seasons, plus the summer player movements, but there is a smattering of other stuff in them too.
The release has reached a landmark 5,000 pages (including the index). I never expected to collate this many reports when I started this back in 2015 after Psycho's sacking. Who would have thought then that we would average about a manager a season in the years that followed?
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I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
Apparently when Revie was appointed as England manager he arranged for 85 players to attend a get together to discuss his plans to get England to qualify for the 1978 World Cup. One of the 85 he invited was.... John Robertson.
Needless to say he turned it down. And of course he was the only one of those invited that actually got to play in that World Cup.
Needless to say he turned it down. And of course he was the only one of those invited that actually got to play in that World Cup.
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Cloughie1975
Stuart Pearce
I felt ‘Robbo’ never really reproduced his Forest form for his country (the same could be said for many club players at international level) because Scotland didn’t really understand his game and play to his strengths (unlike Clough and Taylor).Apparently when Revie was appointed as England manager he arranged for 85 players to attend a get together to discuss his plans to get England to qualify for the 1978 World Cup. One of the 85 he invited was.... John Robertson.
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Needless to say he turned it down. And of course he was the only one of those invited that actually got to play in that World Cup.
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duncanmckenzie
Viv Anderson
I honestly thought Revie had got names round his knackers and actually meant Paul Richardson who was playing quite well at the time and as some of us know Alan ball rarely got a kick when being marked by Richo
Cloughie1975
Stuart Pearce
I don’t think Clough rated Richardson though,Trev-and he was part of the cull that inevitably followed his arrival
at Forest.