Spin.

[Quinn^2]

Can someone explain this to me. Alot of people have talked about it with reference to the club and more specifically Marthur. Others have used it but to be told that what indeed they thought was spin was indeed not and just some other form of bullshit.

What exactly qualifies bullshit to be spin ? Apart from anything that comes out of Marthurs mouth.

 

[Lee]

What ever Marthur says spins Pete Burns right round.

 

[Anatoli]

Good Lord Quinn.
You are asking for the world.

 

[Erik]

Can someone explain this to me. Alot of people have talked about it with reference to the club and more specifically Marthur. Others have used it but to be told that what indeed they thought was spin was indeed not and just some other form of bulls**t.

What exactly qualifies bulls**t to be spin ? Apart from anything that comes out of Marthurs mouth.

About 50% of what Mr Arthur comes out with is spin - Taking truths and half truths and presenting them in an almost fraudulent (I repeat almost) manner so as to be see in the best way possible for the club. For example - 'We didn't sign anyone in January, however, because we refused to be held to ransom we can now use the money earmarked for January in the summer.' (Which pretty much paraphrases what actually did come out of the club).

The rest of what he says is utter bullshit.

 

[weasel]

About 50% of what Mr Arthur comes out with is spin - Taking truths and half truths and presenting them in an almost fraudulent (I repeat almost) manner so as to be see in the best way possible for the club. For example - 'We didn't sign anyone in January, however, because we refused to be held to ransom we can now use the money earmarked for January in the summer.' (Which pretty much paraphrases what actually did come out of the club).

The rest of what he says is utter bulls**t.

I don't remember that quote actually. I'd be happy to see a link.

And as for the other 50% of bullshit? Be honest, that's just made up isn't it.

The whole thing is in fact a myth, fulled by the fact that on the field ineptitude relegated us to League One, and while managers came and went the only constants were the Chairman and Chief Executive, who of course became scapegoats by default. Add to this an ill thought out season ticket renewal slogan, which was foolish given the difficulty of actually getting out of this league, and you've got youself an easy target for abuse, when in actually fact he appears perfectly competant to me.

 

[Annesley Red]

dont believe owt what you hear and only half of what you see
you wont be dissappointed

 

[Rich]

The difference between Spin and Bullshit lies in the truth. Bullshit would suggest there is no truth to what is being said. Spin is more presenting facts in a way that seems positive, and convinces people that what is happening is good.

Examples of 'spin' are things such as excuses for not signing players that make it look like we've taken the decision instead of us not being able to afford them or willing to pay market rates. 'Won't be held to ransom' is an example of spin. It is a positive (for us, as a club) outlook on us not signing someone.

 

[Daniel]

For the prime example of spin see WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT PROMOTION. ARE YOU?

Which of course ended up in relegation as you well know!

 

[LoveAlfa]

If Bull5hit gets spun, duck.

 

[Flaggers]

In the beginning was the Plan.
And then came the Assumptions.
And the Assumptions were without form.
And the Plan was without substance.
And darkness was upon the face of the Workers.

And the Workers spoke among themselves, saying,
"It's a crock of shit, and it stinks."

And the Workers went to their Supervisors and said,
"It's a pail of dung, and we can't live with the smell."

And the Supervisors went to their Managers, saying,
"It's a container of excrement, and it is very strong, such that none may abide by it."

And the Managers went to their Directors, saying,
"It is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide by its strength."

And the Directors spoke among themselves, saying to one another,
"It contains that which aids plant growth, and is very strong."

And the Directors went to the Vice Presidents, saying unto them,
"It promotes growth, and it is very powerful."

And the Vice Presidents went to the President, saying unto him,
"This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigor of the company with powerful effects".

And the President looked upon the Plan and saw that it was good.



Spin. :wink:

 

[clusternakker]

to the press: we are in the market to strengthen the team with quality players

in the boardroom: I bid £10 and they refuse? well you can't say i didnt try duck. ANyone back from injury? goody thats like a new signing!

 

[Rich]

For the prime example of spin see WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT PROMOTION. ARE YOU?

Which of course ended up in relegation as you well know!

Dan, that's not spin. It was a marketing campaign.

 

[weasel]

Dan, that's not spin. It was a marketing campaign.

Kind of true....

But you could say that they've 'spun' season ticket price rises in a way that says it's neccessary to spend on better players, and therefore justified.

I still don't see why everyone cries about that to this day. I'd have definitly forgotten about it otherwise. It went wrong, make no mistake, but people seem to forget, no bugger at this club makes a profit. The club loses money hand over fist, so obviously they have a to stike a balance between making money on season tickets, and p**sing off you good people. If people were happy to accept us signing poor players, then yey lets all have £100 season tickets, but people would fume at that as well.

What kind of massochist would want to run a football club eh.

 

[Rich]

Kind of true....

But you could say that they've 'spun' season ticket price rises in a way that says it's neccessary to spend on better players, and therefore justified.

I still don't see why everyone cries about that to this day. I'd have definitly forgotten about it otherwise. It went wrong, make no mistake, but people seem to forget, no bugger at this club makes a profit. The club loses money hand over fist, so obviously they have a to stike a balance between making money on season tickets, and p**sing off you good people. If people were happy to accept us signing poor players, then yey lets all have £100 season tickets, but people would fume at that as well.

What kind of massochist would want to run a football club eh.

Didn't we get relegated the season after that slogan, anyway?

I'd say it's not spin, as it wasn't relating to an incident that could have a negative connotation.

Spin has to describe a situation, this doesn't. It's a question, it's a campaign, and it was used before tickets went on sale.

 

[It's Baggio]

Didn't we get relegated the season after that slogan, anyway?

No, it was the same season.

The season before we'd finished very strongly under Kinnear and the mood was up, we sold a lot of ST's but unfortunately the club's 'seriousness' amounted to signing out of contract Kris Commons, Kevin James and Paul Gerrard on a free.

 

[Erik]

No, it was the same season.

The season before we'd finished very strongly under Kinnear and the mood was up, we sold a lot of ST's but unfortunately the club's 'seriousness' amounted to signing out of contract Kris Commons, Kevin James and Paul Gerrard on a free.

If I recall correctly they hiked season ticket prices quite considerably 'in the same way that Ipswich' had done previously so that the money raised could then be spent on players 'the same way that Ipswich' had done previously. (Ipswich were newboys to the Premier League at the time).

For the amount of this increased revenue spent on the first team - see list of free transfers above.

Oh well, it's gone now.

 

[weasel]

I am sure Weasel is right and that we are, and always have been, the model of a finely run, open and truthful club, that treat their fanbase with utmost respect, that our Chief Executive is quite simply so good I should be thanking him for the sun streaming through my window and that when I wake up in the morning those years of being treated with contempt and watching division 3 football at Premier League prices will actually have been just a bad dream.

Onwards and upwards and all that.

...although ironically it's the critics who are sensationalist with their claims about what he has and hasn't done. It's me that merely says 'I don't see what all the fuss is about, he seems alright to me' yet because that goes against the grain it's exagerrated out of all proportion.

 

[clabbyash]

An example of spin : "The Royal Family costs the equivalent of 64p for every man, woman and child in the Country and is extremely good value for money"

An example of bullshit : "The Royal Family costs the equivalent of 64p for every man, woman and child in the Country"

 

[Erik]

...although ironically it's the critics who are sensationalist with their claims about what he has and hasn't done. It's me that merely says 'I don't see what all the fuss is about, he seems alright to me' yet because that goes against the grain it's exagerrated out of all proportion.

No.

You refuse point blank to acknowledge even the slightest error he may have ever made.

At least even those who want him gone can acknowledge he has done some good things and not all bad.

Incidentally, I deleted that part of my post to avoid discussing it with you. Oh well.

 

[weasel]

No.

You refuse point blank to acknowledge even the slightest error he may have ever made.

At least even those who want him gone can acknowledge he has done some good things and not all bad.

Incidentally, I deleted that part of my post to avoid discussing it with you. Oh well.

No.

Allow me to quote myself. "It went wrong, make no mistake, but people seem to forget, no bugger at this club makes a profit"

I acknowledge at point black that the slogan used to sell season tickets was a mistake. I also think it's been blown way out of proportion, and I don't think the terminology used in a season ticket brochure is anything like as important as people make out, particularly as I say when there's no personal financial gain to be had whatsoever by the people who made it.

Like I say, I think Mark Arthur is scapegoated in ridiculous fashion, and I'll continue to say so until I see some actual evidence of mistakes that he personally has made.

 

[Rich]

No, it was the same season.

Ah, fair enough, not sure why I thought it was the next season.

 

[Brolin]

An example of spin : "The Royal Family costs the equivalent of 64p for every man, woman and child in the Country and is extremely good value for money"

An example of bullshit : "The Royal Family costs the equivalent of 64p for every man, woman and child in the Country"

I don't understand your point.

Presuming that the 64p stat is true, the first statement would be an opinion backed up by a fact, and the second one would just be a fact.

 

[clabbyash]

I don't understand your point.

Presuming that the 64p stat is true, the first statement would be an opinion backed up by a fact, and the second one would just be a fact.

Think a bit more about it Brolin. :wink:

 

[Rich]

Brolin is correct, you've just added a bit on that is giving an opinion.

Spin would be more along the lines of the "The Royal family only cost you 64p per year, the equivalent of a loaf of bread"

Negative spin would be more along the lines of "The Royal family are costing the tax payer £32m per year"

Both the same fact, just delivered in different ways.

You often see examples of positive and negative spin in newspapers, depending upon their political allegiance.

 

[clabbyash]

"Spin would be more along the lines of the "The Royal family only cost you 64p per year, the equivalent of a loaf of bread"

One loaf of bread per year ? Where do you buy your bread from ?