Sean Mark Dyche

[Captain Sinister]

So ‘if’ this squad is unfit, and ‘if’ that was mainly down to a poor pre season, then it kind of suggests that some fundamental basics were overlooked. Which is poor.

The answer has to be Nuno.
He oversaw the pre-season.
Those pre-season games were, as myself and many others felt at the time, really dreadful.
The counter argument was that they were only pre-season friendlies... but despite that it was clear for all to see, the players were not putting a great deal of effort in, as a sweeping generality.

 

[Gareth Edds]

Of the 5 points we have earned this season in the PL, 4 of them came on Nunos watch.

 

[Robertson]

The answer has to be Nuno.
He oversaw the pre-season.
Those pre-season games were, as myself and many others felt at the time, really dreadful.
The counter argument was that they were only pre-season friendlies... but despite that it was clear for all to see, the players were not putting a great deal of effort in, as a sweeping generality.

Yep this is what I felt. Naively I thought he was being smart and holding them back until the season proper started. The Brentford game seemed to bear this out. Now I'm not sure what was going on.

 

[Robertson]

Of the 5 points we have earned this season in the PL, 4 of them came on Nunos watch.

Three of them came in the first half of the first game. Not a lot since.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Three of them came in the first half of the first game. Not a lot since.

Will we get to 12?

 

[Est.1865]

So are we saying that Nuno is a twat

Yes, I believe we are.

 

[MC Plantpot]

Might there be some reassurance though looking forward if it is a fitness issue? Improve fitness (however that looks) improve form?

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Might there be some reassurance though looking forward if it is a fitness issue? Improve fitness (however that looks) improve form?

I think Dyche just needs to get the foundation together again. Fit players who's fitness suits his methods, and a together squad.

Not saying that will give us a top 10 season, but it won't relegate us if he can just get the three basics of fitness, organization and confidence sorted.

Easier said than done though, as I'd very much guess having players like Morgs here as captain, who clearly want away from the club, doesn't help his cause. Neither will having so many smaller and less physical players for his style.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Might there be some reassurance though looking forward if it is a fitness issue? Improve fitness (however that looks) improve form?

Fitness is one thing that Sean can address with his team of coaches.
However, do they have the skill-set to address the psychological problems besetting the team?
No self-confidence; no mutual trust with team mates; feelings of lonliness and isolation among players not featuring in games... all more debillitating than the fitness issue.
The players have genetic dispositions that make them more athletic than the general populace.
Running about more is not going to cure the mental malaise.

 

[king_congo_red]

Fitness is one thing that Sean can address with his team of coaches.
However, do they have the skill-set to address the psychological problems besetting the team?
No self-confidence; no mutual trust with team mates; feelings of lonliness and isolation among players not featuring in games... all more debillitating than the fitness issue.
The players have genetic dispositions that make them more athletic than the general populace.
Running about more is not going to cure the mental malaise.

Dyche himself does seem to have a pretty good feel for which players need an arm around the shoulder and which need a kick up the backside - he also doesn't come across as someone who will be anything but honest with the players about their current personal situation/standing in the team and what they need to do to improve.
You'd have to think that will help somewhat.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Dyche himself does seem to have a pretty good feel for which players need an arm around the shoulder and which need a kick up the backside - he also doesn't come across as someone who will be anything but honest with the players about the current personal situation/standing in the team and what they need to do to improve.
You'd have to think that will help somewhat.

If it doesn't, we are seriously f**ked up.

 

[king_congo_red]

If it doesn't, we are seriously f**ked up.

I think it'll become very clear just how f**ked we are (or not) after the next couple of games.

 

[Statto]

I think it's more 'fittest' with Dyche - he likes his sides to be the fittest in the league. I think our lads are fit but aren't yet at Dyche levels. He'll have them running more than Nuno's setup did.

Best get to Wollaton Park then guys

 

[Coop’s learning curve.]

So who’s responsible for this group of players allegedly not being fit?

The players.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

I think it'll become very clear just how f**ked we are (or not) after the next couple of games.

Everton away is the marker for me. Some very winnable games between now and then in Leeds, Brighton, Wolves and Everton.

If we win half of those and nick an odd point off one of the others I think that'll go a long way to putting us back on track. And anything off Spurs, Man City and Liverpool in that time will be a bonus too.

I'm just gutted that Dyche didn't get the 2 week International break to get working on player fitness earlier. Ange was already a dead duck, and seeing Chelsea's B-Team batter us 3-0 at home was as predictable a result as you get in football, so keeping him here was completely pointless.

 

[Robertson]

Everton away is the marker for me. Some very winnable games between now and then in Leeds, Brighton, Wolves and Everton.

If we win half of those and nick an odd point off one of the others I think that'll go a long way to putting us back on track. And anything off Spurs, Man City and Liverpool in that time will be a bonus too.

I'm just gutted that Dyche didn't get the 2 week International break to get working on player fitness earlier. Ange was already a dead duck, and seeing Chelsea's B-Team batter us 3-0 at home was as predictable a result as you get in football, so keeping him here was completely pointless.

Yeah there might be a bit more pain to come in the short term, but the thing with Dyche is it seems to me like he’s putting the processes in place to improve the squad individually and collectively over time. I’m also not remotely arrogant enough to think I have any better ideas of how to proceed. Under the previous manager I wasn’t convinced that was the case at all.

And while we can’t afford to fanny around too much, we do have a bit of time to get things right despite the doom and gloom swirling around.

 

[Listen 'ere young man]

Until these new wingers start to produce, I would be giving Nuno the benefit of the doubt that he knew that a downgrade Elanga type player was still more crucial to this team and set up than some fancy Dan Ndoye type, as supposed to just doing a favour for his best mate.

 

[Cloughie1975]

Until these new wingers start to produce, I would be giving Nuno the benefit of the doubt that he knew that a downgrade Elanga type player was still more crucial to this team and set up than some fancy Dan Ndoye type, as supposed to just doing a favour for his best mate.

I think I agree but to be fair the new wingers haven’t had much of a chance to show what they can do yet.

 

[Captain Sinister]

I think I agree but to be fair the new wingers haven’t had much of a chance to show what they can do yet.

It is the failure of our summer recruitment: the existing core squad has proven itself capable of doing well, but with limitations.
Hence the need to recruit to strengthen.
However new recruits need bringing into the team with a run of starts in games.
You can't disrupt the overall team by introducing more than a couple of new players. and they need a few games to establish themselves.
13 new recruits don't have a hope in hell of going through that process.

 

[Cloughie1975]

It is the failure of our summer recruitment: the existing core squad has proven itself capable of doing well, but with limitations.
Hence the need to recruit to strengthen.
However new recruits need bringing into the team with a run of starts in games.
You can't disrupt the overall team by introducing more than a couple of new players. and they need a few games to establish themselves.
13 new recruits don't have a hope in hell of going through that process.

Of course-but I would have thought the likes of Hutchinson and Bakwa (although he’s been injured recently) would
have warranted a bit more action considering how poor some of the ‘core players’ have been this season so far.

 

[Robertson]

It is the failure of our summer recruitment: the existing core squad has proven itself capable of doing well, but with limitations.
Hence the need to recruit to strengthen.
However new recruits need bringing into the team with a run of starts in games.
You can't disrupt the overall team by introducing more than a couple of new players. and they need a few games to establish themselves.
13 new recruits don't have a hope in hell of going through that process.

Not within 12 or 13 games no. So maybe the club is taking a longer view.

 

[Apollo11]

It is the failure of our summer recruitment: the existing core squad has proven itself capable of doing well, but with limitations.
Hence the need to recruit to strengthen.
However new recruits need bringing into the team with a run of starts in games.
You can't disrupt the overall team by introducing more than a couple of new players. and they need a few games to establish themselves.
13 new recruits don't have a hope in hell of going through that process.

I don't think that's the full picture though. Nuno didn't use more than about 15 players last year which caused a burnout and it was pretty much agreed that after the first 11 the subs were substandard.

So the recruitment had to focus on there being more bodies in the squad to avoid the same burnout, especially with European games as well, as well as improving the subs bench.

Much to Nunos despair as it's a very well known fact he likes to use as few players as possible, I'd say the recruitment team have managed to cover the above two issues quite well.

It's not quite worked out yet due to other external issues but I think the players brought in will prove to have improved the squad massively in due course.

 

[Robertson]

I don't think that's the full picture though. Nuno didn't use more than about 15 players last year which caused a burnout and it was pretty much agreed that after the first 11 the subs were substandard.

So the recruitment had to focus on there being more bodies in the squad to avoid the same burnout, especially with European games as well, as well as improving the subs bench.

Much to Nunos despair as it's a very well known fact he likes to use as few players as possible, I'd say the recruitment team have managed to cover the above two issues quite well.

It's not quite worked out yet due to other external issues but I think the players brought in will prove to have improved the squad massively in due course.

If you analyse it a bit further, of those 13 signings:

1 isn’t even here and is playing for Botofogo
2 are reserve keepers
1 is definitely one for the future (Jair Cunha)
4 or 5 are actually being regularly used in the first team for better or worse (Ndoye, Luiz, Jesus, Savona, Zinchenko)

Which leaves four players who all came with a big price tag but seem to be on the periphery for now: Kali, Hutch, Bakwa, McAtee.

But saying we’re struggling to integrate four signings sounds a lot less dramatic than thirteen doesn’t it.

 

[Statto]

If you analyse it a bit further, of those 13 signings:

1 isn’t even here and is playing for Botofogo
2 are reserve keepers
1 is definitely one for the future (Jair Cunha)
4 or 5 are actually being regularly used in the first team for better or worse (Ndoye, Luiz, Jesus, Savona, Zinchenko)

Which leaves four players who all came with a big price tag but seem to be on the periphery for now: Kali, Hutch, Bakwa, McAtee.

But saying we’re struggling to integrate four signings sounds a lot less dramatic than thirteen doesn’t it.

True enough. I think actually we have been trying to stick with last year's first team, which might mean one of two things
- that most of the new players were seen as better backups than players like Taiwo, Jota Silva or Sosa
- that it is down to the new players to win their place.

The only one who has automatically started, pretty much, since joining is Ndoye, and that was presumably because Elanga was the only real player missing from last year's first team picture.

We have lost Aina for most of the season and that is where Savona (playing RB with Neco LB) or Zinchenko (playing LB with Neco at RB) have been the obvious replacements.

Jesus is clearly competition for Wood and Luiz has had injury issues.

Of the others then Hutchinson has come off the bench a bit, Kali is clearly struggling to acclimatise and has done little when he has played (but let's give this time) and then Bakwa has also been injured. So it's really just McAtee.

And actually, Cunha and the other lad probably should come back or get more time in the side as they are clearly better options than Zinchenko and Boly.

 

[Robertson]

True enough. I think actually we have been trying to stick with last year's first team, which might mean one of two things
- that most of the new players were seen as better backups than players like Taiwo, Jota Silva or Sosa
- that it is down to the new players to win their place.

The only one who has automatically started, pretty much, since joining is Ndoye, and that was presumably because Elanga was the only real player missing from last year's first team picture.

We have lost Aina for most of the season and that is where Savona (playing RB with Neco LB) or Zinchenko (playing LB with Neco at RB) have been the obvious replacements.

Jesus is clearly competition for Wood and Luiz has had injury issues.

Of the others then Hutchinson has come off the bench a bit, Kali is clearly struggling to acclimatise and has done little when he has played (but let's give this time) and then Bakwa has also been injured. So it's really just McAtee.

And actually, Cunha and the other lad probably should come back or get more time in the side as they are clearly better options than Zinchenko and Boly.

While he hasn’t been seen for a few games now, even McAtee has started two matches. Though many would question the wisdom of starting him against Sunderland. (Personally not sure MGW would have done much more that day but you never know).