Cloughie1975
Stuart Pearce
Agreed-he looked decent when he came on against Arsenal and did well at Swansea I think.
Sean Mark Dyche
- Thread starter Gyros Peter
- Start date
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
Without being privy to the relationships, we can only speculate, Norman. I'm just stating the only thing that's factual. Nuno was sufficiently happy and content enough to sign a new contract whilst Edu was in the building.
Robertson
Jack Burkitt
Yeah fair enough. I’m sure EM (for not resolving the conflict) and maybe Edu have to share some blame, but EM for one isn’t going anywhere. Besides I don’t really care who’s to blame. We now have an opportunity to move forward with a new head coach.
Mcbeth99
Jack Armstrong
And a great username!!!
Cortez the Killer
Impressive member
So are we saying that Nuno is a twat for signing a new contract when he had a problem with Edu? For all we know it might have been triggered by the fact we ended up in Europe. No matter what, he earned that new contract for being only the third manager in 160-odd years to get us into Europe.
The Brentford and Palace games looked good enough to me. So are we saying Nuno didn't have a problem with Edu then?
I've told at least 2 of my managers to **** off in my working life, but none of them sacked me. Because they understood that frustrations are a part of life and they valued me working for them and acknowledged I did a great job. We sorted out any problems that needed sorting and improved things. That's how adults deal with situations.
I've no doubt Nuno felt he could use the success of last season as leverage, but that is always going to be a problem when you're dealing with a man like Marinakis, whose ego knows no bounds. Time will tell whether the recruitment was good enough to repeat or even surpass last season's performance, but on current views I'd say he might have been right.
Maybe these players were always brought in with a new manager to utilise them (someone more possession-based like Ange?) and Nuno knew this and thought he was best out of it.
I know I would, if my chairman publicly berated me on the pitch after a game, put out inflammatory tweets threatening the PGMOL because we didn't get decisions we wanted, and banned elements of the media from the ground because we didn't like their criticisms.
Folk have pointed out that Nuno has a history of falling out with chairman. Perhaps it's true. But Marinakis appointed him knowing this, so he's equally as at fault for this as Nuno is for earning a new contract when he wanted out of this shitshow.
The Brentford and Palace games looked good enough to me. So are we saying Nuno didn't have a problem with Edu then?
I've told at least 2 of my managers to **** off in my working life, but none of them sacked me. Because they understood that frustrations are a part of life and they valued me working for them and acknowledged I did a great job. We sorted out any problems that needed sorting and improved things. That's how adults deal with situations.
I've no doubt Nuno felt he could use the success of last season as leverage, but that is always going to be a problem when you're dealing with a man like Marinakis, whose ego knows no bounds. Time will tell whether the recruitment was good enough to repeat or even surpass last season's performance, but on current views I'd say he might have been right.
Maybe these players were always brought in with a new manager to utilise them (someone more possession-based like Ange?) and Nuno knew this and thought he was best out of it.
I know I would, if my chairman publicly berated me on the pitch after a game, put out inflammatory tweets threatening the PGMOL because we didn't get decisions we wanted, and banned elements of the media from the ground because we didn't like their criticisms.
Folk have pointed out that Nuno has a history of falling out with chairman. Perhaps it's true. But Marinakis appointed him knowing this, so he's equally as at fault for this as Nuno is for earning a new contract when he wanted out of this shitshow.
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Yates in the Fjord
A. Trialist
I think the difference is that you probably spoke to your manager directly rather than making statements in the national media. I suspect EM might have accepted Nuno expressing frustration in a private meeting, but not when it’s done publicly in the media—especially not twice.
I think this whole situation is explained by too much ambition too quickly. It's obvious Nuno was frustrated with the signings and also that management wanted more possession based football. This created tension and ultimately Nuno leaving. It would be hard as manager to be forced into a squad that didn't suit what you wanted, and similarly you can see why Forest wanted to change their style of play to reach greater ambitions. I don't see why there's so much hostility towards Nuno, he should be celebrated.
Everyone rips into Ange but the way he sets his teams up requires a big transformation. The reason he usually talks about the second year is that it usually takes his teams a bit of time to adjust and his first seasons have often been disappointing. Looking at a match like Chelsea and the first half they were setup really well and created great chances. They couldn't sustain it and missing all those chances is frustrating and deflating, but surely it is evident that they were playing quality attacking football against a very decent side. And I think that would be a sample of what might have built. But sustaining and developing that takes time. These weren't Ange's players, he was only really ever at a stage where he was testing out his squad and the players wouldn't have had time to even absorb or develop under the system. It was a month of frustrating football.
But management, and the fans, were nowhere near prepared for actually working through that transition. Marinakis could probably see this wasn't a short term fix and wasn't willing to risk it all for attacking ambition so he returns to a manager with a style that suited how they were successful last season. Unfortunately all the turmoil and focus hasn't been on that approach, so now they've got a dazed squad which has been revamped for a style they're unwilling to pursue with a manager who desperately needs to get results.
Just as it's brutally unfair to judge Ange based on his brief spell at Forest (beyond his poor press conferences), so too is it silly to get frustrated by Dyche and be disappointed with the loss on the weekend. It just will take time.
The big concern for me is the squad itself. There's talent and skill but there's also a lack of physicality in the play and, while they have talent, I don't think it's as good as the top teams, and they don't have the strength or speed to really win more comfortably against the lower teams who maybe lack creativity but who are well setup and physical. You can see why midtjylland might be a harder opponent than both real betis and Porto, irrespective of the manager. Those sort of teams are going to be difficult for this squad. So there's not comfortable wins there, and there's potentially a lot of struggle. Whoever the manager is, they can probably be excused for having a hard time.
Everyone rips into Ange but the way he sets his teams up requires a big transformation. The reason he usually talks about the second year is that it usually takes his teams a bit of time to adjust and his first seasons have often been disappointing. Looking at a match like Chelsea and the first half they were setup really well and created great chances. They couldn't sustain it and missing all those chances is frustrating and deflating, but surely it is evident that they were playing quality attacking football against a very decent side. And I think that would be a sample of what might have built. But sustaining and developing that takes time. These weren't Ange's players, he was only really ever at a stage where he was testing out his squad and the players wouldn't have had time to even absorb or develop under the system. It was a month of frustrating football.
But management, and the fans, were nowhere near prepared for actually working through that transition. Marinakis could probably see this wasn't a short term fix and wasn't willing to risk it all for attacking ambition so he returns to a manager with a style that suited how they were successful last season. Unfortunately all the turmoil and focus hasn't been on that approach, so now they've got a dazed squad which has been revamped for a style they're unwilling to pursue with a manager who desperately needs to get results.
Just as it's brutally unfair to judge Ange based on his brief spell at Forest (beyond his poor press conferences), so too is it silly to get frustrated by Dyche and be disappointed with the loss on the weekend. It just will take time.
The big concern for me is the squad itself. There's talent and skill but there's also a lack of physicality in the play and, while they have talent, I don't think it's as good as the top teams, and they don't have the strength or speed to really win more comfortably against the lower teams who maybe lack creativity but who are well setup and physical. You can see why midtjylland might be a harder opponent than both real betis and Porto, irrespective of the manager. Those sort of teams are going to be difficult for this squad. So there's not comfortable wins there, and there's potentially a lot of struggle. Whoever the manager is, they can probably be excused for having a hard time.
Cortez the Killer
Impressive member
A good, well-reasoned post, mate.
Perhaps he tried and wasn't listened to. We do know that the 'clear the air' meeting that both Nuno and Marinakis referred to in interviews did not happen, because Marinakis cancelled it after he decided to bring his mate in.
I'm not trying to imply Nuno was blameless but he was an employee of the club, the situation should have been managed better. Hopefully it ends up being a moot point by the end of the season, when we look back at how Dyche has done a great job.
If I was Dyche's mate though, I'd be telling him to watch his back with Marinakis eying up Silva.
Dirk Furtull
Stuart Pearce
Just to go back a few posts, to compare Nuno to the two worst managers I've experienced watching Forest, is frankly ridiculous. I can't even be bothered to explain why I feel like that, it's bloody obvious.
justnotjase
Geoff Thomas
To be fair to Nuno, if he had concerns about signings, he's kind of been proven right so far. With the exception of Jesus and NDoye, maybe Luiz, they have hardly set the world on fire, and many of them are currently not even making the squad. Yes they may all come good eventually, but maybe he wanted more players ready now, or preferred 3/4 higher quality signings?
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "w**ksy"
Folk seem to be forgetting Nuno wanted to use the club as a vehicle to skim thousands/millions of pounds from via Mendez contacts, like Traore.
All the "squad not good enough" and "signings not made early enough" stuff may be true, but it's also only one layer of the situation.
The deeper layer is that Nuno thought he had control over signings to bring through completely useless and pointless signings like he did with Rodrigo Ribeiro every window for extra coin. Edu kyboshed that, as is his job, and Nuno threw his toys out the pram.
f*** Nuno, f*** him right in his fake smile.
All the "squad not good enough" and "signings not made early enough" stuff may be true, but it's also only one layer of the situation.
The deeper layer is that Nuno thought he had control over signings to bring through completely useless and pointless signings like he did with Rodrigo Ribeiro every window for extra coin. Edu kyboshed that, as is his job, and Nuno threw his toys out the pram.
f*** Nuno, f*** him right in his fake smile.
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Berkshire Red
Jack Burkitt
Higher quality? Usually equals higher fees. I suspect the players in the £50m and above bracket didn't want to come to Forest. One season isn't enough to push you into fishing in that pond.
uptight9
First Team Squad
He didn't exactly do it just for the club's sake though, he too has a "special friend" that he got us shopping from. For all his faults and the bitter taste when he left, Nuno at least offered us something, gave us some great memories. To me, the way he left isn't enough to make me cancel them. To you it obviously is.
Dirk Furtull
Stuart Pearce
Too many on here who don't know their arse from their elbow. Anyone who can't give Nuno credit for a top 7 finish in the premier League and a European campaign needs to look at themselves in the mirror.
Steve Cooper started it, Nuno carried it on.. Nuno left and that *wat Postacogluo was appointed. That's where it's gone wrong. Blaming Nuno is short sighted, grow up and realise what the true issue was.
Steve Cooper started it, Nuno carried it on.. Nuno left and that *wat Postacogluo was appointed. That's where it's gone wrong. Blaming Nuno is short sighted, grow up and realise what the true issue was.
Coop’s learning curve.
First Team Squad
Can’t believe that the current position the club finds itself in can be just down to one disgruntled employee Nuno, he wasn’t some sort of magician. It’s been amateur hour since he got binned a couple of managers ago. Paul Merton is quoting the club for giggles. FFS.
Listen 'ere young man
John Robertson
JohhnyM
Viv Anderson
Is this the Nuno thread?
Red in the trent
First Team Squad
Not until we start talking about crisps.
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "w**ksy"
Fair point.
I've not cancelled any of the memories Nuno left us with though, I've just detached myself from him as a once-Forest representative and lowered my opinion of him as a person.
Honestly, I'm more disappointed in myself than anything. When Nuno arrived the Mendez connection and his general background was a yellow flag to me, but I allowed myself to let my guard down with him because of the good he was doing here. Compare him to Cooper, who was as genuine and decent a manager as you get in the game now, and it's night and day.
Cooper felt like a true love, Nuno that period where you slag about to move on from it but - whilst the bods might be fit & dirty, and giving you a lot of thrills - in reality they're all just trying to get pregnant and take half your house.
Dyche is far more in the Cooper mold, someone who has genuine intentions to leave the club in a better state than he inherited it, like he did with both Burnley and Everton. So here's to a brighter future again.
MC Plantpot
Viv Anderson
So who’s responsible for this group of players allegedly not being fit?
Robertson
Jack Burkitt
Sean Dyche, from now on.
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "w**ksy"
I'd put that down to Nuno and the garbage pre-season where he played first teamers for 45 minutes almost every game.
Not absolving Ange of blame though. His methods may not have helped.
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
I think it's more 'fittest' with Dyche - he likes his sides to be the fittest in the league. I think our lads are fit but aren't yet at Dyche levels. He'll have them running more than Nuno's setup did.
MC Plantpot
Viv Anderson
So ‘if’ this squad is unfit, and ‘if’ that was mainly down to a poor pre season, then it kind of suggests that some fundamental basics were overlooked. Which is poor.
Robertson
Jack Burkitt
There was an interesting article that talked about the different types of fitness demanded by by different playing styles - lots of short explosive sprints in a high press, versus less frequent but much longer sprints playing counter-attack. People assume when talking about fitness it's just about not getting tired, but it's more about fine-tuning the fitness that all the players have in a particular direction. Or so this article claims anyway.
www.nytimes.com
Sean Dyche questioned Forest squad’s fitness. Is it a new-manager cliche or does he have a point?
Sean Dyche has questioned the Forest squad's fitness - but is he just discussing a certain 'type' of fitness?
www.nytimes.com