Sean Dyche

[Captain Sinister]

Who give s ashit about whether it was the players or the Directors, or even the fans... Dyche is gone and in Periera we have a far better manager.
Dyche would be ok running a League 1 team.
Anything more and he is an anachronism.

 

[Larry Lansbury]

Nothing wrong with Dyche providing some reflections and insight by identifying that he has learnt from Forest experience, things he take into next job, looking at himself on ways he can improve…….but doubt he will!

He is very skilled at providing external reasons for poor results,
but then ending the same sentence saying, but these aren’t excuses!!

 

[FLC]

It makes no sense for an elite professional footballer to stop trying in order to get someone sacked. These have made it to the top of an ultra-competitive tree and I don't think not trying is in their DNA.

Spurs are outside and would like a word.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

I don’t think we can judge this situation properly until the season is finished. If we go down the decisions to sack Dyche will look ludicrous.

 

[GaryCrosbysStepOver]

Who give s ashit about whether it was the players or the Directors, or even the fans... Dyche is gone and in Periera we have a far better manager.
Dyche would be ok running a League 1 team.
Anything more and he is an anachronism.

You might be right, but it’s too early to make that call IMO. Haven’t we only won 1 in 8 or thereabouts?

 

[Statto]

Who give s ashit about whether it was the players or the Directors, or even the fans... Dyche is gone and in Periera we have a far better manager.
Dyche would be ok running a League 1 team.
Anything more and he is an anachronism.

Irony being I don't think Dyche has ever run a league 1 team. Most of his career has been in the PL, and when he was in the CH he did a decent job with Watford (who sacked him for Zola because the Pozzos came in and wanted a fancier name I guess) and took Burnley up twice. So that's perhaps a tad harsh and maybe also a bit untrue

I'm not convinced Pereira is a better manager either. It's still possible that this season he could have managed 2 of the 3 relegated clubs, and at Wolves he picked up 2 points from 12 matches this season or whatever the precise figure is. He also doesn't seem to stay around at a club for more than a year or two. He may be a better fit for the players than Dyche but all that means is the players have too much power, in any other employment it would be difficult for a whole workforce to down tools so the manager gets sacked.

We would have stayed up with Dyche and having Wood pretty much back will help Pereira when Dyche didn't have this option (possibly because Ange played him when he should have been managing his injury better) - maybe not too dissimilar to Johnson coming back from his broken leg in 03-04 and helping us finish well, but then we had already turned around from the end of the Hart era.

 

[GaryCrosbysStepOver]

We know Pereira speaks Portuguese better and seems to be a bit better at attacking patterns of play, but overall we’ve no idea yet whether he’s better than Dyche.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

We know Pereira speaks Portuguese better and seems to be a bit better at attacking patterns of play, but overall we’ve no idea yet whether he’s better than Dyche.

I think with a hint of caution it's possible to draw that conclusion.

Dyche managed to cobble together a few fortunate results early doors, but there wasn't any obvious patterns of play in either defensive or attacking unit. I called it out at the time that I didn't see our early form under him holding purely because of that. There was a bit more energy about the team than there was under Ange but that's probably more a reflection that Ange got ousted than anything Dyche did. Short term morale boost because change was required and any change would have been seen positively by the players.

I wasn't desperate to get Dyche got but as his tenure wore on we objectively got worse from a performance point of view. Defensive unit had no shape, Jesus was isolated in attack, wing play broke down too often and by the end of it players were trying overhead kicks and 50 yard shots.

It was hard to see how his position was recoverable by the end.

Pereira has come in and it's almost been the opposite. There's a much clearer attacking pattern of play, the players actually try and execute it, the defensive unit seems a bit tigther and results wise we've been a bit unfortunate early doors - rather than getting lucky wins we got an unlocky loss vs Liverpool and held to a draw by Man City... But the signs were there we were competing at a higher level.

Of course this might all change. We might get relegated still. But based on where we are right now there's more evidence to support Pereira having a higher PPG average over the same number of games that Dyche got. I'm more comfortable with us under him than Dyche and I think we have a better chance of staying up now.

 

[marshal99]

wasn't it the same with MON ? Marinakis consulted the opinions of senior players before pulling the trigger.

 

[Osiris]

If you're about to sack a manager it seems only common sense to me to consult the players and get their view on it before doing so, that's hardly player power

If anything it shows that EM isn't the headstrong, "sack first, ask questions later" owner some people make him out to be

 

[vertigored]

Yeah if they turn round and go “yes boss, this is just about to click, we just need one thing to go our way…” then you’d imagine he’d hold off

 

[Cureboy]

If you're about to sack a manager it seems only common sense to me to consult the players and get their view on it before doing so, that's hardly player power

If anything it shows that EM isn't the headstrong, "sack first, ask questions later" owner some people make him out to be

The ref who owned that bakery in Greece may disagree with the headstrong bit.

 

[marshal99]

If you're about to sack a manager it seems only common sense to me to consult the players and get their view on it before doing so, that's hardly player power

If anything it shows that EM isn't the headstrong, "sack first, ask questions later" owner some people make him out to be

but he didn't do it with nuno since the players loved him , he choose to side with edu and created the mess this season and reset this club back to relegation fodder.

 

[Osiris]

but he didn't do it with nuno since the players loved him , he choose to side with edu and created the mess this season and reset this club back to relegation fodder.

He didn't do it with Nuno because he wasn't being sacked for footballing reasons

Canvassing the players' opinion on the breakdown of Nuno and EM's working relationship would've been pointless

 

[incapable hulk]

I am not a fan of EM going through managers, but I do think it's a smart idea for the people running the club to actually go and consult the people most affected and who have to work closest with the manager,the players, before they do so.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I am not a fan of EM going through managers, but I do think it's a smart idea for the people running the club to actually go and consult the people most affected and who have to work closest with the manager,the players, before they do so.

Literally in any organisation it's worth doing. Decision makers too often don't know what's really going on at the bottom and through sheer ego refuse to even talk to the people that actually deliver the results for the organisation.

 

[marshal99]

He didn't do it with Nuno because he wasn't being sacked for footballing reasons

Canvassing the players' opinion on the breakdown of Nuno and EM's working relationship would've been pointless

and that's his biggest failing this season, and all because of marinakis thinking edu will galvanise his footballing empire into greater heights..

 

[JonnoSnr]

I am not a fan of EM going through managers, but I do think it's a smart idea for the people running the club to actually go and consult the people most affected and who have to work closest with the manager,the players, before they do so.

I also suspect that Marinakis is none too happy with some of the players as well and will be dealing with them in the summer if we survive. For the time being needs must and he'll do whatever needs to be done but their day is coming I reckon.

 

[Strummer]

I am not a fan of EM going through managers, but I do think it's a smart idea for the people running the club to actually go and consult the people most affected and who have to work closest with the manager,the players, before they do so.

Literally in any organisation it's worth doing. Decision makers too often don't know what's really going on at the bottom and through sheer ego refuse to even talk to the people that actually deliver the results for the organisation.

We have this 360 degrees feedback concept, where many of our leaders actually come and ask the rank and file what’s going on, and everyone gets an opportunity to provide feedback (good or bad).

It seems to work well here, and a football club is just a business, albeit not like many others.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

We have this 360 degrees feedback concept, where many of our leaders actually come and ask the rank and file what’s going on, and everyone gets an opportunity to provide feedback (good or bad).

In my old company they trialled that, then there was a tonne of crap feedback (because the business was shit) and the UK CEO in front of everyone went "if you don't like it just f***ing leave."

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

In my old company they trialled that, then there was a tonne of crap feedback (because the business was shit) and the UK CEO in front of everyone went "if you don't like it just f***ing leave."

The follow up to this story is about 50% of the workforce took him up on his offer within the next 24 months. He is now COO of the global entity, and the share price of the company has dropped 90% this year.

 

[Master Yates]

The follow up to this story is about 50% of the workforce took him up on his offer within the next 24 months. He is now COO of the global entity, and the share price of the company has dropped 90% this year.

Failing upwards - sounds about right. He'll get another promotion soon

 

[incapable hulk]

Literally in any organisation it's worth doing. Decision makers too often don't know what's really going on at the bottom and through sheer ego refuse to even talk to the people that actually deliver the results for the organisation.

Exactly. I am always baffled when the media, or fans, take any owner having contact with their clubs players as some kind of nefarious thing.

It's not player power - it's just common sense. For any company.

 

[Strummer]

It's not player power - it's just common sense. For any company.

I am frequently astonished why more folks don’t understand this?

After all, it’s the players who put in the effort and have to execute the plans of the coach. If things aren’t working, well, they’ve got to have a pretty good idea there, yes?

 

[EmmersonForest4]

All depends though if you are scared of the players or taking on advice. For example if the players said to me that the manager makes us run too much and has banned gloves in training. Than that should be pushed back against because thats an absurd reason to sack someone. If the players make well articulated arguments that Dyche digs players out in front of other players and they end up being too scared to make decisions but in an articulate manner than thats fair.

I am not against consulting the players but you have to have the mindset that they are looking after their own interests so well within in their interest to deflect all blame to the manager.